New to Astronomy

[johninderby]

Still has the problem of a manual EQ mount although at least it will be easier to look through as the eyepiece  is better placed.

How about this one? A newt but on an alt-az mount so eyepiece position won’t be a problem and the AZ5 is a good mount.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az5-deluxe.html

Edited April 13, 2020 by johninderby

[vlaiv]

Do you mind if we sort of step back here and just for the moment consider what do you want and expect in a telescope.

Telescope is not only about view (although arguably those make most of the experience of using telescope), it is also about how often it is used and how easy it is for you to use it.

I would start by asking you to define your priorities and also to state your expectations. Maybe there is a need to address those as well. If we can't fit everything in certain budget - it will be much easier if you let go of some of expectations instead of hoping that they will be met to a certain degree.

Do you know what you can expect to see in amateur telescope? Many people are influenced by high quality images they see on internet and in some cases people are better served by understanding what can realistically be seen thru telescope instead of chasing ultimate photo like views by changing telescopes. Your viewing location is very important - how much light pollution there is. Sometimes best upgrade to a telescope is "tank full of gas" - or means to get to dark location. Even small telescope is transformed under dark skies.

How about ease of use and transport. Would you be able to handle 25Kg telescope on a regular basis. Do you have storage for large telescope?

These are all things that need to be considered to properly answer what is suitable telescope.

[sarahsmiffy]

1 minute ago, vlaiv said:

Do you mind if we sort of step back here and just for the moment consider what do you want and expect in a telescope.

Telescope is not only about view (although arguably those make most of the experience of using telescope), it is also about how often it is used and how easy it is for you to use it.

I would start by asking you to define your priorities and also to state your expectations. Maybe there is a need to address those as well. If we can't fit everything in certain budget - it will be much easier if you let go of some of expectations instead of hoping that they will be met to a certain degree.

Do you know what you can expect to see in amateur telescope? Many people are influenced by high quality images they see on internet and in some cases people are better served by understanding what can realistically be seen thru telescope instead of chasing ultimate photo like views by changing telescopes. Your viewing location is very important - how much light pollution there is. Sometimes best upgrade to a telescope is "tank full of gas" - or means to get to dark location. Even small telescope is transformed under dark skies.

How about ease of use and transport. Would you be able to handle 25Kg telescope on a regular basis. Do you have storage for large telescope?

These are all things that need to be considered to properly answer what is suitable telescope.

Thank you for your reply

 

id like to be able see the moon, planets and deep sky objects nebulae etc. 
I have the storage to keep the scope assembled at all times, and can easily dismantle for when I take the scope out in the car.

astrophotography is not something I want or am capable of doing to high standards yet but would like to take the odd snapshot to show people.

 

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-evostar-90-eq3-2-telescope.html

what do you think of this for my wants and needs 

[vlaiv]

4 minutes ago, sarahsmiffy said:

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-evostar-90-eq3-2-telescope.html

what do you think of this for my wants and needs 

Since you had astromaster 130 - which is 5" scope, how did you find the views?

90mm aperture is going to show you less compared to 130mm.

I think it is nice scope except the fact that is somewhat limited in aperture. It will have some false color on bright object such as planets, the moon and bright stars, but not as much as some other refracting scopes out there (it is after all F/10 scope).

Other than that, I find that having only 1.25" focuser is limiting. That scope would be capable of wider field views if it had 2" focuser. Btw, you can use 1.25" eyepieces with 2" focuser - there is adapter included.

Btw, for less money, you can have something like this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html

and for a bit more money you can have something like this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

You mentioned that you don't want dobsonian type scope as you did not want to have to put them on table or anything. These two scopes are big scopes. They sit on the ground and you can comfortably sit in a chair next to them and observe. In my view one of the most comfortable observing positions. I have 200p version.

This image sums it up nicely:

Both of these scopes are going to outclass 90mm refractor in every aspect and also that Astromaster 130.

Their only drawback is the size and the bulk. Larger one weighs 25kg assembled. 150p is less than that, probably somewhere around 16-18kg. Both can be transported by a small car (easily split into two pieces - base and tube).

If you don't mind the size and bulk - then these are best options. You can still attach phone to eyepiece and take a shot - it will be as good as any other scope that is not driven (or rather poor / rudimentary).

 

 

[DaveL59]

if you're prepared to look at used, there's this one on the bay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Skywatcher-Helios-102-Refractor-with-EQ3-2-Mount/303313185101?hash=item469edfe94d%3Ag%3AM54AAOSwCmBdm7at&LH_ItemCondition=3000|7000

I'm sure someone else here may have experience of it and be able to give some feedback. Comes via ENS Optical 

[sarahsmiffy]

8 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Since you had astromaster 130 - which is 5" scope, how did you find the views?

90mm aperture is going to show you less compared to 130mm.

I think it is nice scope except the fact that is somewhat limited in aperture. It will have some false color on bright object such as planets, the moon and bright stars, but not as much as some other refracting scopes out there (it is after all F/10 scope).

Other than that, I find that having only 1.25" focuser is limiting. That scope would be capable of wider field views if it had 2" focuser. Btw, you can use 1.25" eyepieces with 2" focuser - there is adapter included.

Btw, for less money, you can have something like this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html

and for a bit more money you can have something like this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

You mentioned that you don't want dobsonian type scope as you did not want to have to put them on table or anything. These two scopes are big scopes. They sit on the ground and you can comfortably sit in a chair next to them and observe. In my view one of the most comfortable observing positions. I have 200p version.

This image sums it up nicely:

Both of these scopes are going to outclass 90mm refractor in every aspect and also that Astromaster 130.

Their only drawback is the size and the bulk. Larger one weighs 25kg assembled. 150p is less than that, probably somewhere around 16-18kg. Both can be transported by a small car (easily split into two pieces - base and tube).

If you don't mind the size and bulk - then these are best options. You can still attach phone to eyepiece and take a shot - it will be as good as any other scope that is not driven (or rather poor / rudimentary).

 

 

Thank you I am seriously considering the skyline Dobsonian.

will I be able to see nebulae and galaxies.

can I stand to view the eye piece and am guessing the eyepiece is 1.25 so can use other lenses.

 

[vlaiv]

Just now, sarahsmiffy said:

will I be able to see nebulae and galaxies.

Most certainly. Larger telescope aperture (diameter) - more light it gathers and that makes faint galaxies and nebulae easier to see. However that is not the whole story. Dark skies really make a difference, but observing skill also makes quite a contribution. The more you observe - more you will see. Sound strange but it is true as you'll train your brain what to expect and what sort of level of contrast and detail you can expect.

2 minutes ago, sarahsmiffy said:

can I stand to view the eye piece and am guessing the eyepiece is 1.25 so can use other lenses.

I found it hard to look thru that scope while standing. It involves quite a bit of bending to reach eyepiece position with someone that is of my height (~6ft). Maybe this image will demonstrate this:

Btw, these are not my images - these are just screen grabs found online - so credits go to their respective owners. I'm just posting these to give you sense of what you can expect.

Bent over observing is not my cup of tea. Whatever puts physical strain on you - detracts from observing. You want to be as relaxed as possible to get the best views. That is why seated observing is much better with this sort of scopes.

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, sarahsmiffy said:

Would it allow me to see nebulae and galaxies in the right light ?

Depends.  You can see the Orion nebula and a few other bright nebula in just about any scope in urban skies.  You can see the core of M31 (Andromeda Galaxy) in just about any scope in urban skies.  With the right nebula filters, you can see a few more nebula from urban skies.  Galaxies, however, are reserved for truly dark skies.  Sometimes you can make out the cores of the brightest ones from intermediate skies in large scopes.  They rarely look like photographs except in the biggest scopes under truly dark skies.

Your best targets for smaller scopes are solar system objects, star clusters, and double stars because they are bright and contrasty.

[sarahsmiffy]

Ok a dobsonian could be the way to go for me then.

only thing is I’m 4ft11 -I’m a bit concerned if the eye piece maybe too high in some positions. Any tips or experienc

[miguel87]

When you say see nebula, I just want to make sure you know what that means.

No colour (very very rarely a little bit)

A vague grey smudge that is often so faint that it disappears when you look directly at it.

You will not be able to take any photos of nebula without spending approx 1000 plus. Not even a little snapshot here and there.

There are a handful of nebula, maybe 5 or 10 that are brighter than this, but still a brighter grey smudge, no sharply defined edges.

Alot of the enjoyment, for me at least, comes what WHAT you are looking at, not how it looks.

And in terms of planets, you are looking at the size of a lentil in the palm of your hand. Maybe a pea if we are talking about jupiter, but that would drift out of view in around 20 seconds without a motor drive.

I'm not being a debbie downer here, just trying to be realistic.

Mike

[Louis D]

3 minutes ago, sarahsmiffy said:

Ok a dobsonian could be the way to go for me then.

only thing is I’m 4ft11 -I’m a bit concerned if the eye piece maybe too high in some positions. Any tips or experienc

An observing chair can boost you up for when you are observing near zenith; alternatively, just stand and lean against a step stool for stability.  Standing while observing for hours leads to fatigue and inability to hold your head in alignment with the eyepiece.

Here's a good image to give you some idea of the height of that 6" Dob under the Orion USA brand.  Admittedly, that guy is taller than you.  That version has digital setting circles (DSCs) to help find objects.  It doesn't track, but it knows where it's pointed in the sky once it's been star aligned.  Instead of GOTO, it's push-to.

[vlaiv]

18 minutes ago, sarahsmiffy said:

Ok a dobsonian could be the way to go for me then.

only thing is I’m 4ft11 -I’m a bit concerned if the eye piece maybe too high in some positions. Any tips or experienc

Maybe best tip that I can offer here is to get height adjustable chair. Tube is about 120cm long and stands about 10-15cm from ground (maybe even less). Eyepiece is some 10-15cm away from the front of the tube, so I would say that at highest point, eyepiece is about 120cm from the floor. That is 3ft 11in or there about?

I'm sure that if you measure yourself sitting in regular office chair with your back straight - your eyes will be at somewhere around 110cm from the floor?

Hence you need adjustable height observing chair that has 15-20cm adjustment range and you'll be fine.

[Ricochet]

15 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

3ft 11in

That's the focuser height at zenith for my dob in its current position (mine has tube rings so I change height for best balance).

What may be an issue is weight. I think the tubes generally weight about 15kg and are quite bulky so this should be considered before purchase. 

[vlaiv]

5 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

That's the focuser height at zenith for my dob in its current position (mine has tube rings so I change height for best balance).

What may be an issue is weight. I think the tubes generally weight about 15kg and are quite bulky so this should be considered before purchase. 

I measured my SW 200p tube to be around 10-11kg (as I recall it - it was 11kg something with 600g guide scope on it) and base is about 15kg so total 25-26kg when assembled, so yes, rather heavy, but from what I understand OP is not concerned with bulk and weight of the scope for both storage and transportation.

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, sarahsmiffy said:

will I be able to see nebulae and galaxies.

Do you have ideas about how dark your skies are? how many stars can you see?

I ask this because a portable scope will not only give good views from home but open up the possibility to take it to dark skies.

There is no question that a 150mm or 200mm SW dob is a top choice for you, however some of us truly like the diminutive Heritage 130 mini dob. I would make sure you could carry the first 2 with ease...

It is hard to beat a 200mm f6 SW dob- it you can move it around. The 150mm is right up there too IMHO.

[Neil H]

Hi if it was me I would go for the skywatcher 150 on the EQ 3/2 it's a good scope plus you can at a later date add go-to , I showed you the photo of my 200/1200 I am 6 foot my wife is 5 foot 4 and we both use it I made up some wilcox rings cost £8 these let you have the telescope mounting rings loose so you can turn the tube so the eyepiece is always at the right height for the user, the eq mount sounds hard to work with but once you use it a few times it gets easy the hard bit is the meridian flip  but once you have done this it's not hard either

As for visual you don't have to get the polar alignment 100% this is more for photography I sold my skywatcher 150/750 and sort of miss it , it was a really nice telescope 

[miguel87]

I would second a medium size reflector on an EQ mount. But I think we have proved that alot is down to individual preference.

More money  is going to improve things but you can enjoy even a 100 pound scope.

Stargazing is a funny hobby. It often involves standing around in the dark and cold british weather and waiting for clouds to move. But if you have a genuine interest in what is above us and the movement of light across the universe then it is totally addictive.

At some point you have to pick based on preference. As long as you understand the main differences of scopes and mounts. Spending 250 quid on any well made scope will give good views of many objects, regardless of it's type. But if you are in it purely for visuals, you will get bored after a few looks at the moon, jupiter and saturn.

Sadly, telescopes are one of the mostly neglected purchases. I know so many people who bought one and it never left the shed/loft. It's not a glamorous hobby.

I started with a 2 inch supermarket reflector on a trip about 6 inches tall. Terrible lenses, awful views and incredibly unsteady. But I loved it! And have kept upgrading ever since.

I'm sure you will make a good choice but dont over think it. Just get out there and use it!

[sarahsmiffy]

4 hours ago, miguel87 said:

I would second a medium size reflector on an EQ mount. But I think we have proved that alot is down to individual preference.

More money  is going to improve things but you can enjoy even a 100 pound scope.

Stargazing is a funny hobby. It often involves standing around in the dark and cold british weather and waiting for clouds to move. But if you have a genuine interest in what is above us and the movement of light across the universe then it is totally addictive.

At some point you have to pick based on preference. As long as you understand the main differences of scopes and mounts. Spending 250 quid on any well made scope will give good views of many objects, regardless of it's type. But if you are in it purely for visuals, you will get bored after a few looks at the moon, jupiter and saturn.

Sadly, telescopes are one of the mostly neglected purchases. I know so many people who bought one and it never left the shed/loft. It's not a glamorous hobby.

I started with a 2 inch supermarket reflector on a trip about 6 inches tall. Terrible lenses, awful views and incredibly unsteady. But I loved it! And have kept upgrading ever since.

I'm sure you will make a good choice but dont over think it. Just get out there and use it!

Thank you.

yes, I understand about the nebulae and galaxies.

i do live in a medium polluted area but there are some no/low polluted areas nearby and I’m looking forward to drives down to the coast in the summer - if we are ever out of lockdown.

I’m not up for a dob if it’s heavy - I’m 4ft11 so am concerned about height.

also, this is something I am going to want to pursue. I’ve loved being out at night in the garden - it’s so peaceful and the stars never fail to amaze me and I’ve been lost the last few days without using my scope. 
I think I will put some more money towards it and get this. 
 

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-explorer-150p-eq3-2-telescope.html

what are your views ?

 

also so you guys with EQ mounts leave them assembled at home or do you dismantle after each. I’m planning on leaving it assembled but I read somewhere it puts pressure on the mount from the weights ??!!??

[miguel87]

16 minutes ago, sarahsmiffy said:

Thank you.

yes, I understand about the nebulae and galaxies.

i do live in a medium polluted area but there are some no/low polluted areas nearby and I’m looking forward to drives down to the coast in the summer - if we are ever out of lockdown.

I’m not up for a dob if it’s heavy - I’m 4ft11 so am concerned about height.

also, this is something I am going to want to pursue. I’ve loved being out at night in the garden - it’s so peaceful and the stars never fail to amaze me and I’ve been lost the last few days without using my scope. 
I think I will put some more money towards it and get this. 
 

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-explorer-150p-eq3-2-telescope.html

what are your views ?

 

also so you guys with EQ mounts leave them assembled at home or do you dismantle after each. I’m planning on leaving it assembled but I read somewhere it puts pressure on the mount from the weights ??!!??

Looks like a great scope. Very similar to what I use really. I think you can expect nice views from home.

I dismantle my set up every time but it really doesnt take too long to setup. Mainly a space issue for me, you would need to leave the tripod legs spread and that takes a lot of space. I would definitely take the weights off if the actual telescope is off too.

 

[sarahsmiffy]

1 minute ago, miguel87 said:

Looks like a great scope. Very similar to what I use really. I think you can expect nice views from home.

I dismantle my set up every time but it really doesnt take too long to setup. Mainly a space issue for me, you would need to leave the tripod legs spread and that takes a lot of space. I would definitely take the weights off if the actual telescope is off too.

 

Thank you very much.

basically I want to see a bit of everything. Maybe not right away but just to know this scope can.

can I add a motor or goto later ?

[vlaiv]

13 minutes ago, sarahsmiffy said:

Thank you.

yes, I understand about the nebulae and galaxies.

i do live in a medium polluted area but there are some no/low polluted areas nearby and I’m looking forward to drives down to the coast in the summer - if we are ever out of lockdown.

I’m not up for a dob if it’s heavy - I’m 4ft11 so am concerned about height.

also, this is something I am going to want to pursue. I’ve loved being out at night in the garden - it’s so peaceful and the stars never fail to amaze me and I’ve been lost the last few days without using my scope. 
I think I will put some more money towards it and get this. 
 

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-explorer-150p-eq3-2-telescope.html

what are your views ?

 

also so you guys with EQ mounts leave them assembled at home or do you dismantle after each. I’m planning on leaving it assembled but I read somewhere it puts pressure on the mount from the weights ??!!??

That scope is not going to be considerably lighter than comparable aperture dobsonian telescope.

Mount head is 3.2kg, tripod is 3.3kg, tube weight is 5.3kg and there are at least 5kg worth of counterweights included. Fully assembled setup is going to be around 16-17kg.

That is pretty much the same as 6" dob version - which is (just checked) 5.8kg for tube and about 10kg for base - so total about 16kg.

Height is concern with such scope. Tripod has minimum height of 71cm, and there is at least about 25cm on top of that for mount head, so we are at 100cm without the scope. Scope is luckily shorter because of 750mm focal length, so at most about 40 additional cm. I suppose at lowest setting for tripod, eyepiece at highest position would be around 135 - 140cm - that should be ok for you?

Such scope is better if you plan to add motor tracking or goto later - it is fairly easy to do, there is kit for that.

However it is harder to operate while observing because EQ type mount can place telescope in awkward position for viewing. You will need to rotate scope in tube rings (which means loosen rings - but not too much for them to open, turn tube without it sliding to affect the balance and re tightening rings). You will also have issues with using finder scope as it is straight thru and will be also placed at awkward positions.

This is really my main objection to using newtonian scope on EQ mount - too large span of possible eyepiece heights and weird positions and need for rotating OTA in tube rings.

 

 

[vlaiv]

Maybe watching this video will explain the size of that scope and eyepiece positions that you can encounter:

 

[johninderby]

If it wasn’t a bit over your budget would suggest a Skytee II alt-az mount with a 150p ota.

Or cheaper would be the AZ5 alt-az mount with 130p ota.

Edited April 13, 2020 by johninderby

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, johninderby said:

If it wasn’t a bit over your budget would suggest a Skytee II alt-az mount with a 150p ota.

I was thinking along the same lines, but Skytee with tripod is already over budget. Unfortunately, I don't think any of smaller alt az mounts like Az4 or Az5 would hold such ota without issues (both size and fact that it would hit tripod close to zenith?).

[johninderby]

Still think the AZ5 130PS could be a good option and within budget.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az5-deluxe.html