SkyWatcher ASCOM drivers - no North/South!

[BrendanC]

Hi all,

I've had this problem before - see https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/340193-ascom-eqmod-eqascom-ascompad/.

I've installed the ASCOM platform and the Skywatcher ASCOM driver. The planetarium software (CdC) works fine, slews the mount (Skywatcher Synscan AZ GOTO) every which way. But the astro apps I currently have installed - APT and a trial of Backyard EOS - only allow slewing west and east, not north and south! The POTH hub will sometimes work, but it's very clunky and not particularly predictable, and just doesn't feel right as a solution (I shouldn't have to use them if I'm using the Skywatcher ASCOM driver).

In APT, the controls don't respond at all. It's only the ASCOM pad that enables West and East slewing.

In Backyard EOS, the controls do respond, but again, only allow East/West, not North/South.

A while back I sort of got it to work in Sharpcap but it doesn't any more.

I've looked extensively online and cannot find anyone else that has this problem. I have a really bad feeling it could just be a problem with my setup or, worse, a hardware fault. I'm using the proper Skywatcher USB connector in Windows 10.

Any ideas? I've also tried using other drivers in the past, which unfortunately didn't fix this. This will really be a problem if/when I come to want to do some work remotely (ie mount in garden, astro work indoors) because I really will need to make small manual adjustments without having to dash outside (and guiding is way, way in the future for me, if at all). I'd have thought a simple N/S/E/W control would have been extremely basic and operable.

Thanks, Brendan

Edited December 14, 2019 by BrendanC

[BrendanC]

OK, it's the darnedest thing, but I got it to work.

The driver I was using was the official Skywatcher driver, from https://skywatcher.com/download/software/ascom-driver/

Just out of curiosity, I tried installing the driver available on the ASCOM site, at https://ascom-standards.org/Downloads/ScopeDrivers.htm#synta

Whereas the Skywatcher file seems newer (15 August 2018) than the ASCOM version  (June 2017), and the file names are slightly different, the version numbers are the same and in fact the exe files are exactly the same size, which strongly implies they're identical.

But they're not. The ASCOM site driver works! The keypad works perfectly. The keys in Backyard EOS also work, but not in APT, so that's still a mystery. Still, I can now slew properly using manual controls, and I can decide whether to have it all 'in app' with Backyard EOS if I decide to buy it, or via the ASCOM pad in APT.

Just thought I'd document this solution in case anyone else comes unstuck. Despite seeming identical, the Skywatcher ASCOM drivers seem to behave differently from the ASCOM site drivers. It's a strange one, but at least it seems to be a fix. Kind of.

Edited December 14, 2019 by BrendanC

[BrendanC]

Did I say fix?

Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. I cannot fathom it at all.

I give up.

[david_taurus83]

This is an Alt-Az mount? I would have thought that would be at odds with EQMod...

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I've not heard of APT, BYEOS etc controlling an Alt-Az mount before? I know the AZ-GTI needs a firmware update to use it in EQ mode on a wedge.

[BrendanC]

Yes, it's AZ. I don't have EQMOD installed (I think - I have a degree in IT, used to be a programmer, was in tech marketing for 20 years and I still don't understand how all the ASCOM drivers/software are supposed to work...)

Surely APT etc can control an AZ mount? They have Alt/Az coordinates in their displays after all. I have the same problem with the small ASCOM pad that is displayed when the ASCOM drivers are active, and that surely controls AZ mounts.

The weird thing is that North/South sometimes work. But it's so random. Sometimes they work fine all the time. Other times, not at all. Other times, they start fine then just stop - or, having not responded initially, start responding. It's weird.

I've contacted Skywatcher about this but I'm not holding my breath. I've also looked online for solutions but I seem to be the only person in the world with this problem.

Any/all suggestions welcome! 

[Dinoboy]

I have a similar if not the same issue. I have downloaded various drivers and purchased various cables, I can control my mount (Skywatcher eq3-2) using CdC but no other programs. I have Stellarium, the latest version, and have been trying to sort the problem with Grant, we have spent an inordinate amount of time but cannot get Stellarium to move my mount. My laptop is just s few weeks old (Dell 15 5000) with an i5 processor, I am not that computer literate so that could be wrong.

when I am in CdC there are a couple of lines that move when I mouse the screen, anyone know how to get rid of these lines?

i am going to download the Skywatcher driver mentioned by BrendonC. How many more drivers do I need. As I say CdC works every time so I don’t want to mess that up.

[Dr_Ju_ju]

If you are trying to drive an AZ mount, then EQMod et al cannot drive it, they are meant for Equatorial mounts only.

Yes they will drive an AZ mount, even to the correct location, but there will be image rotation due to only one axis being driven.

[BrendanC]

Isn't EQMOD something completely separate to ASCOM? The ASCOM drivers are most definitely able to drive an AZ mount.

You'll get field rotation but that's just a limitation of AZ mounts. 

I'm not sure my situation is the same as @Dinoboy because the mount works fine in all planetarium programs (CdC, Stellarium etc).

It's just the manual north/south control that doesn't work properly. It works, then it doesn't. Then it does. Then doesn't. Completely randomly, that I can tell.

[Dr_Ju_ju]

In answer to DinoBoy, if you are trying to use Stellarium, depending on which version, you may well have to use StellariumScope (https://welshdragoncomputing.ca/x/index.php/home/stellariumscope/download-stellariumscope) which must be configured & started before Stellarium…..

[Dinoboy]

Hi, in the latest version of Stellarium you do not need to download StellariumScope, the system will not let you, what you must do is hit the Telescope icon on the foot of the screen then select your scope and away you go or not in my case. Everything works ok when I use Cartes du Ciel but not Stellarium!!!! Been trying for weeks even in discussions with Grant from FLO. I have been looking instead at the Primaluce Eagle Core.

[Dr_Ju_ju]

That's why I said, version dependant, but with version 19.2, I have no problem connecting\controlling my AZEQ6 using the Stellarium - SkyWatcher Synscan v3 device settings

[stash_old]

19 hours ago, BrendanC said:

The ASCOM drivers are most definitely able to drive an AZ mount

But what Ascom drivers - its the driver that talks to the mount - if that doesn't support AZ then any software that connects via Ascom wont either. 

You say SW AZ GoTo but what do you mean there has been various versions many with different board/firmware versions.

SW Ascom drivers are for use with Synscan App (use Pro) and handset (but not both) and its that that talks to the mount and the Ascom driver talks to the Synscan App or SW Handset Using CDC or Stellarium in Ascom mode will mean they talk to the Ascom driver you choose. No point in using POTH as Ascom allows multiple client connections. The Synscan App can use UDP or USB/Serial(TTL) com port to talk to the mount.

If your handset hasn't the correct(latest) firmware loaded that might throw a spanner in the works.

There is more than 1 set of sky watcher command set so talking the wrong one at the wrong point will not work.

See attached picture which might clear up the how/why etc (or might not 🙂 )

As for APT I am not sure it does support AZ via a SW AZ GOTO mount - check on APT forum site.

 

I diagram showing what you are using and how you connect (with settings) will help !!!!! 🙂

[BrendanC]

Thanks for this.

I'm using the official Skywatcher drivers for Synscan Hand Controller at https://skywatcher.com/download/software/ascom-driver/, and within those drivers there's a setting for AZ, which is selected.

APT also has indicators for alt and az. I see no reason why APT shouldn't control an AZ mount?

My real issue is that, when manually slewing, East/West always works, North/South sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. I just don't understand why it occasionally refuses to work. It's a consistent problem no matter what method I use for manually slewing the scope.

It slews with no problem to objects I select within planetarium software, for example Stellarium or CDC, so the actual communication between the drivers and the mount is fine. It's just whenever I manually slew the mount using an on-screen keypad, whether it's in APT, Backyard EOS, Sharpcap, or the ASCOM key pad. East/West is always ok, North/South either works then stops, or stops then works, or works fine throughout, or doesn't work at all throughout. I cannot find a pattern/workaround.

I'm going to check the firmware on the handset next because that's a good shout, thanks for mentioning it.

Meanwhile I'm trying to get a peep out of Skywatcher support some time in the next few days/weeks/months/years/millennia.

Edited December 19, 2019 by BrendanC

[stash_old]

1 hour ago, BrendanC said:

APT also has indicators for alt and az. I see no reason why APT shouldn't control an AZ mount?

have you double checked with APT forum - assume nothing

1 hour ago, BrendanC said:

North/South either works then stops, or stops then works, or works fine throughout, or doesn't work at all throughout. I cannot find a pattern/workaround.

have you changed the rate of movement - and dont be so hard on the button - you have to realise you can overflow the software by just holding down the keypad

Also have you tried the synscan app (no ascom etc ) only approach (no hand set etc) and used its keypad - you have too many if/but/maybe which is not useful when trying to find a problem. Need to go back to basics.   if this approach works you know your mount works fully and can test the next level! Sorry that's the way it is - especially for people to help - its hard doing remote support 🙂

[BrendanC]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'll double-check with APT, but as I say, it's exactly the same behaviour on all other software.

I haven't changed the rate of movement - or, rather, I have, many many times, to try and figure this out, makes no difference.

I didn't know I could overflow the software. Still however, if that were the case, I would expect it to overflow East/West too, which it never, ever does. It's always North/South.

The Synscan app-only approach would involve changing the firmware, right? Which I might just do anyway because, as you say, I need to get down to basics. I still find it weird that slewing controlled by any planetarium software is fine, but slewing manually is not. Still, it's something I hadn't considered so I'll give it a go!

Really appreciate the help here.

I should add that Skywatcher support have got in touch so I'll be going through things with them too. I'll let you all know what transpires...

[stash_old]

1 hour ago, BrendanC said:

The Synscan app-only approach would involve changing the firmware, right?

No - nothing needs changing if you omit the handset from the equation.

PC connects to mount using a USB serial adapter/cable (thats TTL serial NOT RS232 serial  - both do the same thing but former is 5v or 3.3 v and the later is 12v and above so do not  get it wrong) .

If you haven't an adapter then yes the Handset firmware needs to be a certain level.  

On PC you run Synscan App Pro and choose "serial"  and the correct "COM" port or the and off you go.

If the above works and the "keypad" on the App works to your satisfaction then its "something" else that's wrong not the mount or the cable (as used) in this test - that's working on the approach  there are hundreds of people doing keypad movement without problems.

A quick point  - you have got a decent power supply running this kit ?- bad power supplies can cause some weird things to happen!

Sorry but I cant really help any further - "blind" problem solving is hard. Maybe SW can come up with something. 

[BrendanC]

OK, I do appreciate the help here but I don't understand how to bypass the hand controller. I have a USB-to-RS232 adapter (the official Skywatcher one) that goes into the handset. I then have the factory-supplied cable running from the handset to the mount. I wouldn't know where to start with bypassing the handset and connecting the computer directly to the mount. Surely I can't just unplug the connector from the handset and plug it directly into the mount? Or is that what you meant about the voltages and the need to be careful? In which case, I'd rather be careful and not even attempt it!

Skywatcher have actually come back to me so I've told them all the version numbers etc. Let's see what they say. This is my first ever telescope so it's darned frustrating that I've had such a weird problem. I've tried changing the COM port, using different USB ports, using a different USB-to-RS232 adapter, uninstalling and reinstalling drivers, updating firmware, turning the mount off and on again, rebooting the computer - everything I can think of. Sometimes when North/South works, I think I've fixed it, but then it will stop working and I'm back to the old problem again.

[Merlin66]

Brendan,

Forget the cables which came with the mount.

If you want a direct connection between your computer and the mount you need a special EQDir cable.

You also need to install ASCOM, then EQMod and an interface planetarium program, I use Cartes du Ciel.

Once set up you have total remote control of your mount......

 

[Cornelius Varley]

17 minutes ago, Merlin66 said:

Brendan,

Forget the cables which came with the mount.

If you want a direct connection between your computer and the mount you need a special EQDir cable.

You also need to install ASCOM, then EQMod and an interface planetarium program, I use Cartes du Ciel.

Once set up you have total remote control of your mount......

 

EQMod doesn't work with the AZ goto mounts. Brendan's method of connecting the mount, serial data cable to handset + Ascom platform and correct mount drivers is the way to do it.

[stash_old]

Brendan you dont say where you live but is there a "local" Astro club near you - most are friendly and normally only too willing to help out a fellow Astro Nut 🙂

And yes dont try putting the cables together without the handset - blue smoke !!!!!!

 

[BrendanC]

OK, latest is that I downloaded the Skywatcher Synscan Pro app for Windows, and updated the hand control to the Synscan Relay firmware.

It works! North/South works every time.

However - get this: I can't now use it from within APT because I guess the app has complete control which it won't share with other apps!

Two steps forward, one step back.

So I think this implies that, as I suspected, the actual hardware communication isn't a problem. It's something to do with the ASCOM drivers.

Time to get back to Skywatcher...

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by BrendanC

[stash_old]

7 minutes ago, BrendanC said:

However - get this: I can't now use it from within APT because I guess the app has complete control which it won't share with other apps!

Yes you should be able using the SW Ascom MOBILE driver - this allows apps to talk to the Synscan App Pro directly and then the latter talks to the Mount. Sky Safari should also work this way. 

Requirement is that you install the Synscan Ascom Mobile Driver.  Then in APT you choose the Synscan Mobile driver in the Ascom Chooser.  NOTE Synscan App must be loaded and connected to the mount first. You should also be able to run CDC etc by selecting the same Ascom driver. 

[stash_old]

You have to understand Ascom drivers are multi App friendly - they can  and do share the same Ascom Driver to many Applications all at once. The Synscan App just acts on what it is told by the driver regardless where the message came from.

In theory the Ascom relay driver should work this way too - just have never tried it 🙂  

 

[BrendanC]

Ah, I see what you mean - use the ASCOM Driver for SynScan App Version 1.2.3, then go back to using the app, with the relay firmware, but selecting the mobile driver in APT? I'll give that a go, thanks!

The problem then would be that I could only use the scope with the laptop - I wouldn't have that option to use the handset any more, unless I updated the firmware beforehand.

There really must be a way for the standard ASCOM drivers to allow multi-directional manual slewing with such a bog-standard setup as Windows 10 and Skywatcher mount! This is hardly exotic equipment.

Another test I'm going to try is rigging it up to my desktop PC, downloading ASCOM and APT and trying that.  If it works, it's the laptop that's at fault. Which of course involves lugging the whole rig upstairs... wish me luck...

Oh, and btw, I signed up for my local astronomy club a few months ago but they're a dead loss. None of the contacts ever reply to my emails and they don't even have social media! Their website is also a joke. I won't mention them, but I'm seriously considering joining another one down the road that might have more of a welcoming approach...

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by BrendanC

[stash_old]

admittedly using Synscan App Pro emulation of AZ mount but it works and this is old software as I dont use it any more