Are cheaper eyepieces as good as very expensive ones?

[Greymouser]

12 minutes ago, jetstream said:

I own the 18mm BCO- very good, the 10mm BCO- excellent and the 6mm BCO

From what I have seen with the 10mm BCO, I have to agree. I consider the 10mm, classic ortho from Baader better than their 10 mm Hyperion at F10.

I am also surprised at the hype that seems to surround the Nirvana eyepieces too, to be honest. I got the 7mm one and I was not too impressed and do not really get on with it. It might just be my eye, but I find the cheap, old Skywatcher long eye relief 5 mm better, as is the 10mm classic ortho.

I have been impressed by the ES 62 degree eyepieces too, well, at least the 26 and 20mm ones I have so far. I am now trying to decide between, two or even three more of them, or a Telle Vue Delite. I am finding it a difficult choice though, I mean just the colour; the look and the what if, just speaks so loudly to my sub subconscious...

I think I prefer the narrower field of view, certainly my wallet does!

[jetstream]

4 hours ago, Greymouser said:

I think I prefer the narrower field of view, certainly my wallet does!

What scope do you have?

If you can observe the planets/lunar under good seeing the TV's (well some TV's...) can pull away from ES eyepieces. IME, ES replicates Nagler performance but does fall short of the Delos for sharpness, contrast, scatter control and transmission. The Ethos will out contrast the ES/Naglers, not sure about Delites but they are supposed to be good, with a small spot size.

ES makes VG eyepieces and our 24 ES 68 has a secure place in the case...

Of course there is a bit of "status" owning TV and you have excellent eyepieces already- just curious what focal length are you looking at? btw the 10BCO is my deepest eyepiece and competes with some very expensive glass, I love this thing!

[markse68]

Hi Gerry, I've heard you use that term before but what do you mean when you say "deepest eyepiece"? Do you mean that it sees deeper and is that a contrast thing? Mark

[Greymouser]

19 hours ago, jetstream said:

What scope do you have?

I actually have three, a C5; C9.25, both at F10 mostly, but sometimes at F 6.3. I also have a ST102, which is F4.9. I also have a 150 P reflector, but that needs  to be sold, so does not count.

I have just been out and had a quick look at Saturn with the C5 and again found myself disappointed with the Nirvana, better view with the BCO 10mm, even with the x 2.25 barlow attached. I suspect I will get some more ES 62 degree eyepieces, to get closer to a complete range. The Telle Vue are on my wish list, but it is just not realistic budget wise, any time soon. No great hardship though, as the ES eyepieces are very good.

[jetstream]

16 minutes ago, Greymouser said:

I actually have three, a C5; C9.25, both at F10 mostly, but sometimes at F 6.3. I also have a ST102, which is F4.9. I also have a 150 P reflector, but that needs  to be sold, so does not count.

I have just been out and had a quick look at Saturn with the C5 and again found myself disappointed with the Nirvana, better view with the BCO 10mm, even with the x 2.25 barlow attached. I suspect I will get some more ES 62 degree eyepieces, to get closer to a complete range. The Telle Vue are on my wish list, but it is just not realistic budget wise, any time soon. No great hardship though, as the ES eyepieces are very good.

Nice scopes!

Great that the 10BCO is working well for you and those ES eyepieces are really good and will serve you well.  Glad you got out observing, can't wait for the clouds to clear here.

Edited September 7, 2019 by jetstream

[Raph-in-the-sky]

On 06/09/2019 at 17:38, Louis D said:

The Celestron Omni eyepieces are average Plossls.  A very minor step up in quality.  If you were going to buy Plossls, I would recommend the Revelation line made by GSO in Taiwan.  I find them to have a bit better polish and coatings and better attention to stray light control.

The Baader Planetarium eyepieces are classic orthoscopic eyepieces which yield a nice jump up in planetary observing.

Other options for upgrades would include the various TMB Planetary eyepiece clones and the BST Starguider eyepieces.  They will have wider apparent fields of view with better eye relief, especially at the shorter focal lengths.

I will definitely second that. GSO/Revelation Plossl are very sharp when compared to Bresser or celestron OMNI Plossl. 

BST's are a great value for the price... so are TMBs

[wesdon1]

On 06/09/2019 at 20:45, jetstream said:

Hi Wes, which Baader eyepiece are you thinking of? I own the 18mm BCO- very good, the 10mm BCO- excellent and the 6mm BCO- pass on that one...IMHO

Hi Gerry, so sorry for late reply. I only have SGL on my home PC so sometimes i don't know i have messages until i visit the site. I was thinking of getting a Baader Classic 6 or 10mm as the Morpheus and others are quite expensive. I assume you own Baader Classic eyepieces? Is that what the BCO stands for? Are you advising me against the 6mm Baader Classic? is so, why? Is it not as good as the other sizes of the same line? Thanks Gerry.

Wes.

[wesdon1]

2 hours ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

I will definitely second that. GSO/Revelation Plossl are very sharp when compared to Bresser or celestron OMNI Plossl. 

BST's are a great value for the price... so are TMBs

Thank you for your advice sir. I like the idea of buying GSO and/or Revelation eyepieces as they are fairly priced. I will definately have a look at that option. Thanks, Wes, Liverpool, UK.

[bingevader]

The biggest determining factor for me has always been the price.

The top of the range are always going to be out of my league.

But I have saved and bought mid range EPs as time goes on.

My first bit of advice would be to fill the gaps!

There's not much point doubling up on EPs with the same focal length until you know what you like and that it is markedly different to what you have.

As people have mentioned, the BST Starguiders seem to be a favourite on here that tick both boxes in terms of price and a step up in quality from the stock EPs.

I've only looked through an 8mm, but that was very good indeed and is a solid piece of kit.

 

[Raph-in-the-sky]

26 minutes ago, wesdon1 said:

Thank you for your advice sir. I like the idea of buying GSO and/or Revelation eyepieces as they are fairly priced. I will definately have a look at that option. Thanks, Wes, Liverpool, UK.

If you have time on your side, you can probably find those second hand for approx £20.

[Raph-in-the-sky]

21 minutes ago, bingevader said:

The biggest determining factor for me has always been the price.

The top of the range are always going to be out of my league.

But I have saved and bought mid range EPs as time goes on.

My first bit of advice would be to fill the gaps!

There's not much point doubling up on EPs with the same focal length until you know what you like and that it is markedly different to what you have.

As people have mentioned, the BST Starguiders seem to be a favourite on here that tick both boxes in terms of price and a step up in quality from the stock EPs.

I've only looked through an 8mm, but that was very good indeed and is a solid piece of kit.

 

I have the 5mm and 15mm BSTs...those are also the only EPs I bought new (you don't find them often second hand as people tend to hold on to these even when they upgrade).

The 15mm is clearly my most used EP... It's just great!

[domstar]

Hi, I have  6mm 10mm and 18mm BCOs and I agree with @jetstream that I love the 18mm and 10mm but not the 6mm. If I look at the moon, I can see more detail at 6mm (150x on my scope) but I don't enjoy the view as much as with the 10mm (90x). My telescope should manage 150x magnification but the views don't satisfy. On the other hand, it gives good views of Saturn. I have a 9mm Revelation plossl, a 10mm Vixen plossl and 20mm BST Starguider (all from ebay) and I like them all. The views are great at f9 with a small FOV (starguiders have bigger) and I don't wear glasses.

I'm afraid I disagree with the wisdom of buying the best at the beginning. The hifi analogy above is a good one. Buy the best when your eyes can appreciate it. Shopping and upgrading are part of the fun. Show me a regular observer who hasn't upgraded no matter how high their entry costs were.

Good luck and have fun. I only think about upgrading my kit when it's cloudy. 

[Raph-in-the-sky]

25 minutes ago, domstar said:

 I have a 9mm Revelation plossl, a 10mm Vixen plossl and 20mm BST Starguider (all from ebay) and I like them all. 

I didn't know that BST starguider existed in 20mm... Are you sure it's a BST starguider? Isn't a 18mm or a 25mm?

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, wesdon1 said:

Hi Gerry, so sorry for late reply. I only have SGL on my home PC so sometimes i don't know i have messages until i visit the site. I was thinking of getting a Baader Classic 6 or 10mm as the Morpheus and others are quite expensive. I assume you own Baader Classic eyepieces? Is that what the BCO stands for? Are you advising me against the 6mm Baader Classic? is so, why? Is it not as good as the other sizes of the same line? Thanks Gerry.

Wes.

No issues with the reply Wes, sometimes I don't check for periods of time myself- thank you for the consideration.

Yes I own the 18mmBCO, 10mmBCO and the 6mm BCO. I cannot recommend the 6mm- it has great color but is not as "sharp" as the other 2 and it seems to bloat stars a little bit. the 18mm and 10mm are excellent however.

The BCO stands for "classic" ortho and it sends ortho purists into fits. It is another design from a Zeiss optician utilizing an opened up field compared to traditional orthos. They will show some edge distortion- but- 99% of eyepieces do, including TV Ethos, Naglers, Delos,Leica etc. Some distortion is to be expected as all eyepiece design is a tradeoff IMHO.

I love orthos and use them every session, they do have tight eyerelief in the shorter fls- do you wear glasses? of so this can be an issue.

I would hold off on the shorter fl widefields (ie 6mm) just yet as there are a few superb (expensive) choices and some run of the mill one you ewould most likely replace.

Your scope is f6 right?

If so and if it were me I would look at a 24mm-25mm something. A 25mm Televue plossl is superb, a keeper in any scope and will show nebs extremely well. The widefoield are expensive but the ES 24mm 68 is great and in 2" a 24mm ES 82.

Have you considered the 18mm BCO/10mm BCO with the Baader "Q Barlow"?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/baader-classic-q-225x-barlow.html

[domstar]

7 minutes ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

I didn't know that BST starguider existed in 20mm... Are you sure it's a BST starguider? Isn't a 18mm or a 25mm?

Hmm. That got me thinking. I've just had a look around. It's a 20mm UWA-58 degree from skysthelimit on ebay. Skysthelimit were always the place for BST stuff before Flo started selling them. My purchase history has it advertised as BST but it's not written on the box or eyepiece and the screw up eye guard is different to my 25mm Starguider. Looks like I've been had. 

Whatever it is, it's sharp as a tack and I'm not a massive fan of my 25mm because of its ring of fire (and it's a bit close to my 30mm 2 inch aero).

Anyway, thanks for the correction. I'm genuinely gobsmacked. Sorry all for giving duff advice.

 

[jetstream]

11 hours ago, domstar said:

I'm afraid I disagree with the wisdom of buying the best at the beginning.

It sure can get expensive too! and then you realize the "best" we just bought is not exactly what you want and the pursuit continues. Also, sometimes the best is not expensive- my copy of the 10mmBCO is top tier being sharper with more color and transmission than eyepiece 6x more expensive..

Edited September 9, 2019 by jetstream

[LDW1]

If you can move up to a couple of 2” low power, wide field eps in the range of $80 - $120 US ! They are a great compliment to the smaller 1.25” eps ! You sure don’t have to spend too much but they should be a level or two above the ones that come with most scopes !

Edited September 9, 2019 by LDW1

[wesdon1]

On 09/09/2019 at 14:31, jetstream said:

No issues with the reply Wes, sometimes I don't check for periods of time myself- thank you for the consideration.

Yes I own the 18mmBCO, 10mmBCO and the 6mm BCO. I cannot recommend the 6mm- it has great color but is not as "sharp" as the other 2 and it seems to bloat stars a little bit. the 18mm and 10mm are excellent however.

The BCO stands for "classic" ortho and it sends ortho purists into fits. It is another design from a Zeiss optician utilizing an opened up field compared to traditional orthos. They will show some edge distortion- but- 99% of eyepieces do, including TV Ethos, Naglers, Delos,Leica etc. Some distortion is to be expected as all eyepiece design is a tradeoff IMHO.

I love orthos and use them every session, they do have tight eyerelief in the shorter fls- do you wear glasses? of so this can be an issue.

I would hold off on the shorter fl widefields (ie 6mm) just yet as there are a few superb (expensive) choices and some run of the mill one you ewould most likely replace.

Your scope is f6 right?

If so and if it were me I would look at a 24mm-25mm something. A 25mm Televue plossl is superb, a keeper in any scope and will show nebs extremely well. The widefoield are expensive but the ES 24mm 68 is great and in 2" a 24mm ES 82.

Have you considered the 18mm BCO/10mm BCO with the Baader "Q Barlow"?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/baader-classic-q-225x-barlow.html

Hi again Gerry. Thank You for your kind and very informative advice. Yes my 'scope is F6, and i have a 130/900 SW Newtonian Reflector too, which is F6.9 ( Effectively F7 i assume ? ). Yes i do wear glasses though they I do get fairly good views without Glasses, though with Glasses the view is obvs much sharper. I'm now thinking, after all the kind comments and advice, to initially try purchase eyepieces second hand online, so i can get more quality per pounds spent. I think i'll buy a Baader Ortho 18mm, and a BST 6mm, and then judge what i find is best by what my views are like. Would you say this is a wise decision or could you please suggest 2 eyepieces, one for low power and one for mid-high power? Either from 2 different brands or the same brand but reasonably priced both new and used? ( No pressure! haha! ) I have around £150 to spend this month. Thank You in advance for any advice and obvs Thank You for all your kind and wise advice you have provided me! I'm learning fast but still have years of experience and knowledge to acquire! Thanks Gerry

Wes.

[Raph-in-the-sky]

17 minutes ago, wesdon1 said:

Hi again Gerry. Thank You for your kind and very informative advice. Yes my 'scope is F6, and i have a 130/900 SW Newtonian Reflector too, which is F6.9 ( Effectively F7 i assume ? ). Yes i do wear glasses though they I do get fairly good views without Glasses, though with Glasses the view is obvs much sharper. I'm now thinking, after all the kind comments and advice, to initially try purchase eyepieces second hand online, so i can get more quality per pounds spent. I think i'll buy a Baader Ortho 18mm, and a BST 6mm, and then judge what i find is best by what my views are like. Would you say this is a wise decision or could you please suggest 2 eyepieces, one for low power and one for mid-high power? Either from 2 different brands or the same brand but reasonably priced both new and used? ( No pressure! haha! ) I have around £150 to spend this month. Thank You in advance for any advice and obvs Thank You for all your kind and wise advice you have provided me! I'm learning fast but still have years of experience and knowledge to acquire! Thanks Gerry

Wes.

Sadly BST starguider doesn't exist in 6mm. They have a 5mm and a 8mm. If you really want a 6mm, I would advice for a TMB imitation (original TMBs are difficult to find) which is in the same price range and have somewhat comparable performance. 

I recently was in the same situation, wanting to upgrade the kit EPs. For me a range of 3-4 EPs is enought, especially coupled with a decent Barlow (Revelation/GSO/Baader Q/Celestron Ultima Japan/Orion shorty plus).

So I would say BST 5mm and 15mm + 32mm plossl. The 32 mm is for widefield/finder EP, 15mm is great on many DSOs (although a 12mm would also be nice if conditions are good). The 15mm with the barlow (7.5mm) is good for planetary when conditions are average while the 5mm will be good when conditions are better. 

Once you have these a 9mm or/and 12mm will be useful for DSO which require higher power and will respectively give you 4.5mm and 6mm when barlowed allowing for finer adjustment when doing planetary.

 

[jetstream]

3 hours ago, wesdon1 said:

Would you say this is a wise decision or could you please suggest 2 eyepieces, one for low power and one for mid-high power?

Question: do you want future proof eyepieces? many buy/sell quite a lot which is fine but costly IMHO.

Used is an excellent idea!

Heres a few widefields, good ones that your F6 will like :30mm APM UFF, 30mm ES 82, 28mm ES 68, 24mm ES 82, all 2".

in 1.25": 24mm TV Pan, 24mm ES 68

 

The Q Barlow will give you a multitude of mags with one eyepiece... as its 1.3x and 2.25x... a 12.5mm ortho will give: 12.5mm/9.6mm/5.55mm selection.

                                                                                                                                                 the 18mm                           18mm/13.8mm/8mm selection

So, a 24mm-30mm 2" widefield and a 12.5mm-18mm ortho with Q barlow. Used Circle T volcano top orthos are very high on this list as is the Baader 18mm.

Many like BST's too.

[wesdon1]

21 hours ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

Sadly BST starguider doesn't exist in 6mm. They have a 5mm and a 8mm. If you really want a 6mm, I would advice for a TMB imitation (original TMBs are difficult to find) which is in the same price range and have somewhat comparable performance. 

I recently was in the same situation, wanting to upgrade the kit EPs. For me a range of 3-4 EPs is enought, especially coupled with a decent Barlow (Revelation/GSO/Baader Q/Celestron Ultima Japan/Orion shorty plus).

So I would say BST 5mm and 15mm + 32mm plossl. The 32 mm is for widefield/finder EP, 15mm is great on many DSOs (although a 12mm would also be nice if conditions are good). The 15mm with the barlow (7.5mm) is good for planetary when conditions are average while the 5mm will be good when conditions are better. 

Once you have these a 9mm or/and 12mm will be useful for DSO which require higher power and will respectively give you 4.5mm and 6mm when barlowed allowing for finer adjustment when doing planetary.

 

My goodness i'm so sorry sir! I mistakenly called you "Gerry" ?? I got your name mixed up with another SGL member!?? Apologies sir! 

Oh right i didn't realise a 6mm BST wasn't available ? I will just do exactly as you have suggested and buy BST 5mm and 15mm, and if i can afford it this month, the 32mm Plossl as well. If not i can always buy the 32mm next month. I will let you know how i get on with buying them and what prices i paid/performance etc etc. I'm so excited and can't wait to build up my eyepiece collection and see the views they give me! Thanks so much for your help and advice sir! 

Wes.

[Raph-in-the-sky]

4 hours ago, wesdon1 said:

My goodness i'm so sorry sir! I mistakenly called you "Gerry" ?? I got your name mixed up with another SGL member!?? Apologies sir! 

Oh right i didn't realise a 6mm BST wasn't available ? I will just do exactly as you have suggested and buy BST 5mm and 15mm, and if i can afford it this month, the 32mm Plossl as well. If not i can always buy the 32mm next month. I will let you know how i get on with buying them and what prices i paid/performance etc etc. I'm so excited and can't wait to build up my eyepiece collection and see the views they give me! Thanks so much for your help and advice sir! 

Wes.

No worries, you can call me Susan if you like, it doen't matter 🙂

I think uou re making a move you won't regret (I didn't). Looking forward for your opinion on those EPs.

Once I was all set with EPs, my next move was a Telrad finder and a lacerta micro focuser uprgrade kit (which I just installed yesterday)... and now I m considering a RACI finder... Amateur astronomy is cheap to get into but once you re hooked there's no end.

[LDW1]

They sure are unless you are a perfectionist that just likes to spend money in the pursuit of prestige !  

[Stub Mandrel]

Money buys you flatter fields, sharpness to the edge, more contrast, wider fields of view, greater eye relief and better quality construction. But not necessarily more than one or two of these even if you spend a lot of money.  Cost goes up a lot faster than the quality.

Doing an A/B at our club I could see a very expensive EP being better than one I bought cheaply, but the difference in price was bigger than the difference in the view.

That said, I did not have any problems seeing better resulsts with 'affordable' EPs compared to the standard ones thst came with my scope.

There are some VERY cheap EPs (look for aspheric eyepiece  on eBay). These cost a few quid each(!) have plastic lens elements but are coated and much better than the stock 10/25mm eps that come with most scopes. Worth blowing a tenner on a pair, as they can be treated as 'disposable'.

Plossls are always good value general purpose eyepieces, there are  ones out there that are very good for little cash in 25mm and 40mm sizes. Avoid short focal length plossls unless you like peering into pinholes.

I have a few mid-range EPs that perform very well. A stock Celestron 32mm that came with my C90 Mak (they give you one decent ep rather than two cheap ones). A couple of Skywatcher SWA 'planetary' EPs that work well.

Consider second hand. My best quality EP came 'free' with a second hand scope I bought and turned out to be worth s/h about as much as I paid for both (not a fortune). My other more expensive EPs were bought for very fair prices off this forum.

 

[ollypenrice]

I have never felt the need for more than three EPs for a given scope. If that scope is deep sky only, as was the case for our now departed 20 inch F4, bring that down to two. Indeed I only ever use two in our 14 inch SCT. This frees up cash to pay a bit more for the focal lengths you do use. I go for premium EPs bought second hand. I don't worship brands but I like quality and, as a provider, I want to offer quality as well. My two EPs in regular use are the TV 13 Ethos and the TV 26 Nagler. Both are worth, today, what I paid for them. (Does this make them free??? )

Olly