Align scope with Polar axis

[alan potts]

19 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

How do you confirm with a polar scope, if you can see it's out then surely you can correct it?

Polar scope method is classed as a rough polar alignment

Are you on a fixed mount or a setup and tear down?

Polar alignment and star alignment are different kettles of fish..if pointing is out then redo your star alignment but don't do as someone else does and redo the polar alignment and wonder why the star alignment is out so re entering with the clutches off!!

Apologies if I come across as brash..not intended..

 

Quite simple, I used many times polar drift to check PA, then drift align, it was very close but not perfect, after I check the polar scope and within a tad it was where it should be, my polar scope is at least in the right place. Last night I confirmed with the polar scope purely to see if I had knocked the mount when messing about, I hadn't.

This is fixed at the moment in an observatory. I know about polar and star alignment and have done it hundreds of times but don't understand why it is so far out with first slew, after a few weeks back it was bang in the same place every night, at the time I slewed to Antares as I was imaging over that way. With in a fraction the mount hasn't moved and neither has anything else as far a I can see and now it's rubbish, this is what we are trying sort why.

Alan

[alan potts]

1 hour ago, michael8554 said:

Nearly there Alan. 

Synch on Dubhe if it's near your target, don't go back to Polaris to see if it's there. 

It wasn't, so what, who cares, why does it matter so much to you ?

Targets near Dubhe will be in your DSLR FOV when you try a goto. 

Get on with imaging  !!!! 

Michael 

Polaris being there don't matter I just sort of thought it would be a half decent check. I don't understand why when the PA is good and a few weeks back I slewed to Antares night after night and it was there more or less in the middle, now it's more likely to be near Spica. If anything the PA was not as good then, I've been tuning it, in Polar Drift and Drift, it was not perfect in Drift but is was very close ,1.5arc mins I think, that's nothing for guide to correct.

[newbie alert]

2 hours ago, alan potts said:

Quite simple, I used many times polar drift to check PA, then drift align, it was very close but not perfect, after I check the polar scope and within a tad it was where it should be, my polar scope is at least in the right place. Last night I confirmed with the polar scope purely to see if I had knocked the mount when messing about, I hadn't.

This is fixed at the moment in an observatory. I know about polar and star alignment and have done it hundreds of times but don't understand why it is so far out with first slew, after a few weeks back it was bang in the same place every night, at the time I slewed to Antares as I was imaging over that way. With in a fraction the mount hasn't moved and neither has anything else as far a I can see and now it's rubbish, this is what we are trying sort why.

Alan

Ok, it's always out on the first slew on a fresh star alignment.. as you're on a fixed mount are you hibernating saving  the star alignment or re doing it everytime?

 

[alan potts]

2 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

Ok, it's always out on the first slew on a fresh star alignment.. as you're on a fixed mount are you hibernating saving  the star alignment or re doing it everytime?

 

No it was saved and still is and nothing has been adjusted, this is what is so annoying, it was working with these setting very well for as long as Antares has been in the sky, it's data is still in the save, unless I remove them all on purpose but then they just came back next time, I have tried that too. As for removing points I don't know how, they just keep coming back.

I set up 6 points about two months back and they just worked, pretty much everywhere, now they don't, time for the hammer I think.

Alan

[Laurin Dave]

Hi Alan

I suspect that's the issue and the old points need to be deleted especially if they've been around since before you put the dual scope on.   To do this..  (if I remember correctly)  open eqmod, click the spanner to get the full screen...  in the alignment and sync box click on the two boxes with the red X on them to clear the sync and alignment data points... you can also click on the User interface box and set it to dialog based...  (which has been recommended in this thread) then click on the box at the top left of the alignment/sync area (the alignment point list editor) and make sure all the boxes are unchecked...   You will then clear all old data and it wont reload..  

HTH 

Dave

Edited August 28, 2019 by Laurin Dave

[stash_old]

Alan,

as I also use AZEQ6 if you look at the screen ASCOM EQMOD (The first one) as a fellow AZEQ6 user you might have some extra bits in the development  testing area (right hand side of screen)- does it show something about  Disable Encoder (haven't got mine loaded so using my memory).

It wouldn't be set to "enable encoder" would it.

If it does and AFTER you have tried all other suggestions and they have failed (hopefully not) then make sure this is set to "Disable Encoder" - this caused me some problems with my AZEQ6 but was not like your experiences! Another long shot 🙂

[alan potts]

2 hours ago, stash_old said:

Alan,

as I also use AZEQ6 if you look at the screen ASCOM EQMOD (The first one) as a fellow AZEQ6 user you might have some extra bits in the development  testing area (right hand side of screen)- does it show something about  Disable Encoder (haven't got mine loaded so using my memory).

It wouldn't be set to "enable encoder" would it.

If it does and AFTER you have tried all other suggestions and they have failed (hopefully not) then make sure this is set to "Disable Encoder" - this caused me some problems with my AZEQ6 but was not like your experiences! Another long shot 🙂

I have a feeling I pressed that a while back, I can check. Pointing is terrible, never found one of the 3 points I have put in and missed the next one by miles. But guiding is tops

Syncéd on Vega, Altair and Saturn, I know the latter moves but it would matter for just tonight, asked to slew to Deneb, not far from Vega, agreed, missed bu further than the FOV of my SW finder which I had centred on Saturn.

Right lets have a look at the encoders.

BTW all those J2000 setting reset thereself to what they were.

Alan

[michael8554]

Dave's screenshot of EQMOD is terrifying, I'd never cope - has anyone ever mastered all that?

Soooo complicated! 

Is that really what you have to use with these mounts?

Glad I've got a Meade LX, almost switch on and go. 

Michael 

[alan potts]

5 hours ago, michael8554 said:

Dave's screenshot of EQMOD is terrifying, I'd never cope - has anyone ever mastered all that?

Soooo complicated! 

Is that really what you have to use with these mounts?

Glad I've got a Meade LX, almost switch on and go. 

Michael 

In some respect I am fairly pleased you do find it terrifying, at least it isn't me, I actually am not frightened by this, don't know what 50% of it does but not not frightened. One would think things could be somewhat easier though. Maybe Stash-Old has hit the jackpot, I ticked a box about two weeks back to see what is would do, thought it would help guiding as it is in a section where such delights as PPEC sit and that means better guiding, so ticked it. Lets see no un-ticked if this was the problems. Someone said it would be something simple, me again, he was right.

Alan

[stash_old]

7 hours ago, alan potts said:

I ticked a box about two weeks back

I never did tick the box - it was set automatically - honest 🙂

Remember "slowly slowly catchy monkey" - I always follow this and never have problems - That nose is growing again - lol.

Hope it (or anything else) works !

[alan potts]

18 minutes ago, stash_old said:

I never did tick the box - it was set automatically - honest 🙂

Remember "slowly slowly catchy monkey" - I always follow this and never have problems - That nose is growing again - lol.

Hope it (or anything else) works !

I had a play for 10 mins last night after I had enough and unchecked this tag on encoders, it found every star smack middle full length of Cygnus, I know this is not far. Then think I selected Mirach and there was nothing. However having just checked the spelling so as to not come across as totally thick, I am far from sure I selected Mirach now as it is clear orange on the chart and the star I picked was white and smaller, so it could be working, will check later. Great when you can say that, only the 27th clear day this month.

Alan

[Davey-T]

Hi Alan, been following this thread off and on and surprised it's still going given all the expert advice available here, don't know as I can be much help.

Have you tried going back to using an eyepiece to set up, I've always found it easier and more intuitive to do it visually.

As for PA depending what scope you're using I've always found it sufficient to set the mount parked at up north and use the scope as a polar scope aided by the finder scope and adjusting bolts to put Polaris in the main scope FOV, using something like a 26mm eyepiece in my 110 f/7 frac', in the position indicated by one of the Polar apps allowing for position around the clock face dependant on type of scope, that should be good enough for fault finding elsewhere.

I would also just use the handset to eliminate other stuff and try slewing to few stars roughly along the same dec' near the zero dec' line  and check which direction they're out and roughly how far, without centring them in between, see if the error is constant and reproduceable by parking scope up north, switching off and on and repeating.

Starting with Altair and slewing back east to Enif then Markab ATM and avoiding crossing the Meridian.

If the mount is PAd near enough the errors in dec should only be slight, big unrepeatable errors in RA indicate big problems, repeatable RA errors indicate something fixable which could be a simple as the mount not keeping the time / date, daylight saving settings, does it have GPS ?

Dave

Edited August 29, 2019 by Davey-T

[alan potts]

Well Gents it works now Thanks Stash Old and thanks to everyone else, something simple, me thinking I understand something.

Alan

[alan potts]

5 hours ago, stash_old said:

I never did tick the box - it was set automatically - honest 🙂

Remember "slowly slowly catchy monkey" - I always follow this and never have problems - That nose is growing again - lol.

Hope it (or anything else) works !

Youvé done it, it works spot on 3 out of 4. Big thanks.

Alan

[Laurin Dave]

Excellent .. well done 

[alan potts]

17 minutes ago, Laurin Dave said:

Excellent .. well done 

Big thanks to you too Dave, you must be fed up with my problems, Tonight, guide is 0.4sec nice and clear and I can find things, only the idle hands doing devils work could make something go wrong.

Alan

[Laurin Dave]

You’re welcome Alan..   Better not touch anything then 😉

[Ouroboros]

16 hours ago, alan potts said:

Well Gents it works now Thanks Stash Old and thanks to everyone else, something simple, me thinking I understand something.

Alan

Good news! Now you can get on with some imaging. And congrats to Stash for suggesting what turned out to be the solution.

You've now got me wondering how my encoders are set in EQMOD.  What's the default?   (Although the question is somewhat academic as I'm in the process of trying out controlling everything using  KStars/EKOS/INDI from my MacBook). 

[alan potts]

2 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Good news! Now you can get on with some imaging. And congrats to Stash for suggesting what turned out to be the solution.

You've now got me wondering how my encoders are set in EQMOD.  What's the default?   (Although the question is somewhat academic as I'm in the process of trying out controlling everything using  KStars/EKOS/INDI from my MacBook). 

Set Encoder to disable!!! I thought I was helping my guiding but then I'm thick. If you don't understand it do not touch it is the lesson here.

Alan

[alan potts]

4 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

 

KStars/EKOS/INDI from my MacBook). 

What, do not suggest this to me, air traffic will be re-routed.

Alan

[Ouroboros]

On 28 August 2019 at 23:31, michael8554 said:

Dave's screenshot of EQMOD is terrifying, I'd never cope - has anyone ever mastered all that?

Soooo complicated! 

Is that really what you have to use with these mounts?

Glad I've got a Meade LX, almost switch on and go. 

Michael 

Surprisingly it isn't.  First off you don't have to use it if using the handset that comes with the mount. But EQMOD provides a relatively easy and free way IMO to control a mount using a Windows computer.  Once set up I found it isn't necessary to use the EQMOD control panel much anyway.  The left most panel is like the handset controls, and all the right hand panels can be closed down. I always used Cartes du Ciels planetarium software to point and sync the scope while EQMOD works unseen underneath.  There are lots of clear YouTube videos on using EQMOD too.  

[Ouroboros]

2 hours ago, alan potts said:

What, do not suggest this to me, air traffic will be re-routed.

Alan

No worries! 🙂  I won't!  It's only because I'm working with a Mac and want to avoid running Windows as a virtual machine on it. Microsoft are dropping support of Windows 7 soon and I don't fancy the upheaval and expense of buying a new dedicated Windows laptop or trying to install new Windows as a virtual machine on my Mac. Anyway that's a different story.

Personally I don't find KStars/EKOS/INDI as intuitive or as well supported for newbies as EQMOD. But maybe that's just me being thick. 

Anyway, all that's for another thread. Good luck and clear skies. 

[michael8554]

2 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Surprisingly it isn't.  

That's a relief. Though Alan said the handset gave him grief, which surprises me. 

Michael 

[alan potts]

32 minutes ago, michael8554 said:

That's a relief. Though Alan said the handset gave him grief, which surprises me. 

Michael 

Yes indeed Michael the handset gave me a lot of pointing problems and I actually think I understand that, I think its just me, I can have problems with an empty box. I sometimes thing mine was a Friday afternoon mount.

Alan