Nifty fifty or something else for widefield, startrails & milky way shots ?

[Danjc]

As the title really the lens would be used with a canon 1100d budget £100 max. 

Cheers, Dan. 

[Ags]

On a crop camera I find the the '50 is too zoomed in for star trails. I like the lens otherwise.

[Alien 13]

The nifty fifty is a great lens, even better in its STM format but the 18-55mm kit one is better in some respects but again the higher quality versions of this lens get better i.e. standard/ IS/MK 2 and STM.... Another good option is the 40mm STM lens.

Alan

[FaDG]

I find the nifty fifty stars not really usable on the outer half or third of the picture, even stopped down at f4. 

And once you crop, the equivalent focal length increases. 

Was really looking at the Sigma 50mm, but it's quite more expensive. Yet, as my Sigma 105 f2.8 is incredibly crisp, I might give their 50mm a try. 

[jgs001]

If you can stretch to it, then go for a macro lens. They have an incredibly flat field and thus work really well for Astro. The nifty fifty needs to be stopped to around f/4 or f/5.6 to get the best out of it for Astro.

[cjdawson]

The STM Nifty Fifty works great, but on an APS-C it's more like an 80mm lens.  The F1.8 makes it a great choice though, captures a lot of light. 

[JamesF]

2 minutes ago, cjdawson said:

The STM Nifty Fifty works great, but on an APS-C it's more like an 80mm lens.  The F1.8 makes it a great choice though, captures a lot of light. 

More specifically, the field of view is more similar to that of an 80mm lens on a full frame sensor.  But if you're working out stuff like image scale, it's still a 50mm lens.

James

[Paul73]

Thank you James. I really couldn’t understand most of the thread until you summarised in english! Essential for those of us  who are just starting out on the imaging journey.

Paul

 

 

[JamesF]

21 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

Thank you James. I really couldn’t understand most of the thread until you summarised in english! Essential for those of us  who are just starting out on the imaging journey.

It confused me for some time when I started, too :)

I have the impression it's something that comes from "normal" photography.  There it seems quite common to talk about focal length of lenses in terms of the field of view you get in combination with the sensor.  An APS-C sensor such as is in the more consumer-focused Canon cameras is about 1.6 times smaller than the full frame sensor found in the more "professional" models (I'm being a bit footloose and fancy-free with "consumer" and "professional" here).  Which means that the field of view when used with an APS-C sensor is about the same as you'd get with a 1.6x longer focal length lens on a full-frame sensor and in this case 50 x 1.6 = 80.  I've seen quite a few photography websites where someone casually writes something along the lines that "because this lens is being used on an APS-C sensor it's actually a focal length of X" where X is 1.6 times the stated focal length of the lens.

For standard photography this may be a useful shorthand, but taken literally it is of course not true.  The optics of the lens cannot somehow magically change configuration merely because it has been placed in front of a different size sensor.  The focal length is what the focal length is.  And for astro work where we're generally not that interested in what the field of view is compared to a full-frame camera, but may well be interested in the actual field of view in terms of how much sky fits onto the sensor or how many arcseconds there are per pixel, the stated focal length is always the one to use.

James

[FaDG]

18 hours ago, FaDG said:

And once you crop, the equivalent focal length increases. 

Self quoting because I now understand the confusion referred to in the posta above. 

When I wrote "once you crop", I wasn't referring to APS-C vs. Full Frame, but rather that, due to very evident coma, I can't use the full picture of the 50 f1.8, even when stopped down to f4, but need to crop the central part only, thus losing FOV. Due to this, the final framing appears as taken with a longer focal length. Clearly enough, resolution is the one at 50mm.

A very evident case is Orion: the whole constellation should fit nicely in the frame, with the nifty-fifty on APS-C. But due to coma, I have to crop part of the image, and finally can't get the whole constellation in a single pic. 

Fabio

[Danjc]

Thanks for all the reply’s, I have been looking at various lenses for the last day and must admit I have read that much I have confused myself with many reviews I have read. 

I do find myself drawn towards a  Rokinon 14mm F/2.8 and should get me around 94 degrees on my crop sensor. I know that totally smashes my original £100 budget but semis to tick all the boxes. 

Opinions on this lens and others appreciated. 

[FaDG]

The Rokinon 14 f2.8 (or Samyang, it's the same lens), is a great lens for nightscapes and widefield images of the milky way.

To help you with your budget, it's quite easy to find one used, just in this case check which version you find, as there are quite a few around (at least for the samyang). 

I noticed that the Field is not fully flattener (can be expected for such a lens) and stopping down a bit improves star shapes.

Fabio

[Danjc]

1 hour ago, FaDG said:

just in this case check which version you find

I noticed there are a few variations but not sure as yet which one I will need/want ?

[FaDG]

Can't help you as I don't have one either. 

I was told that the Samyang with golden Ring should be avoided and the new ones with red Ring are better. 

The one I used was a borrowed sample of the latest version. Was ok. 

Fabio

 

[Danjc]

Cheers for all the advice I went with the Samyang 14mm 2.8 ED AS IF UMC

Seems a great lens and managed a few shots with it last night.....all be it unguided and with clouds but shows great potential ??

[kirkster501]

I have the 14mm too and it is a lovely lens.  Quick tip, ignore the infinity mark on the lens - it is useless.  On my example the true infinity focus is between 2.0 and 2.8.

It is a great daytime lens too.  I bought an adapter to connect it to my Fuji XT2.

[Danjc]

6 minutes ago, kirkster501 said:

ignore the infinity mark on the lens - it is useless

I noticed that it’s miles off ! 

[Macavity]

1 hour ago, Danjc said:

Cheers for all the advice I went with the Samyang 14mm 2.8 ED AS IF UMC

Unless I'm very confused, those are £300-400? A bit more than a Nifty 50! lol ?
[just teasing] It looks to be  a very beautiful lens...

I did quite a lot of "photographing stuff" (I won't claim more than that. lol) in the
days of 35mm film, so bought a 24mm f2.8 pancake as my "standard" APS-C lens.

BUT I did *test* (testcard on screen!) the pancake 24 against a Mk.II "Nifty 50".
I enlarged the frames to compensate for the different focal lengths. But it was
clear that, at the same aperture, the Pancake was quite a lot sharper (notably at
the edges). To get similar results, the Nifty 50 had to "lose" a couple of f-stops. ?

Of course, "Pancakes" are 150% the price of Nifty 50s... "You pays yer money"? ?
But if you want a compact (day/night) setup, I would commend the former... The
Pancake 40mm is held to be superior to the 24mm... It will replace my Nifty 50? 

The other main thing I learned about WIDE angle was that the frames often
contained a *significant* (light pollution) gradient! You can get rid of this via
e.g. (free) IRIS software. I also found a 2" (Baader) UHC filter "tightened" stars
and emphasis (more interesting!) nebulae a lot... albeit as a red & blue image! ?

</wibble>

[kirkster501]

2 hours ago, Danjc said:

I noticed that it’s miles off ! 

There are some videos on Youtube that show you how to calibrate the Infinity mark on the lens but tbh as long as you know roughly where the Infinity focus point is so you can get a rough focus ballpark then it's no bother.  You need to fine focus in any event on a high ISO.  I do this with a bhat mask and 5 sec exposures.

[Danjc]

55 minutes ago, Macavity said:

Unless I'm very confused, those are £300-400? A bit more than a Nifty 50! lol ?

No unfortunately you definitely aren’t confused.... but did get a decent price on a new one so all good. 

I did look at the 40mm pancake, also thanks for the advice ??

[Danjc]

10 minutes ago, kirkster501 said:

There are some videos on Youtube that show you how to calibrate the Infinity mark on the lens but tbh as long as you know roughly where the Infinity focus point is so you can get a rough focus ballpark then it's no bother.  You need to fine focus in any event on a high ISO.  I do this with a bhat mask and 5 sec exposures.

As you I have sussed where or whereabouts the infinity point is and my bhat mask for my ED80 is almost a perfect fit for the lens ?

[kirkster501]

22 hours ago, Danjc said:

As you I have sussed where or whereabouts the infinity point is and my bhat mask for my ED80 is almost a perfect fit for the lens ?

Yep.  And easy to make a Hartmann mask for any other lens if adapting an existing Bhat is too hard.

[alacant]

Hi. How about an Asahi Takumar 35mm? Around €50 on eBay. Just add a M42 to canon adaptor. The whole of Orion and further...

HTH.