What Processing Software ???

[teoria_del_big_bang]

I know this is a question raised time and time again but just wanted some advice on what to use.

I have used DeepSkyStacker and Nebulosity for stacking and these seem fine to me.

I also use Nebulosity for the processing and seems to do a fair job and is pretty easy to use.

But when I see some of the wonderful images produced on this forum most seem to use either Pixinsight or Photoshop and sometimes both. Both these are relatively expensive software. I say relatively because for software  at first sight it does appear to be quite pricey. However, I did use the free trial of Pixinsight and loved it and when you think about it if it were £240 for a piece of hardware then I would not quibble about it, so in actual fact the software for what it does is pretty good value really. Unfortunately Pixinsight has quite a steep learning curve to use it and so I was just getting to grips with it when the trial ran out, but I did begin to really like it and what it can do

Whilst I am a long way off actually capturing data anywhere close to what can be seen on this forum if I need the software at some stage then would like to start off with it so I also develop my processing skills along with the actual data collection at the same time. But I have no real insight into Photoshop. This is more expensive over a period of time but again if needed then maybe I have to get it. But what version of Photoshop?

So in a nutshell:

• Do I need to get either of these and if so which one ? (or both?)
• Are there other software I can try that does the same ?
• If I do try Photoshop what version of it do I get?

Steve

[cjdawson]

Hiya.

 

To add to the fun and games, there's also Astro Pixel Processor for stacking.  Again it's paid for software.

 

As for photoshop, well you could always try to go down the Gimp route, which is free and people say it does the same thing.    Personally, I much prefer photoshop, but that's for a number of reasons, not just astro processing.

As for the version of photoshop, you could get the photographers pack which is a subscription for £9.99 a month, this includes both photoshop CC and LightRoom CC.

 

As for whether you need any of them. no, you can do everything with free software - you'll need to figure out how though.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

12 minutes ago, cjdawson said:

To add to the fun and games, there's also Astro Pixel Processor for stacking.  Again it's paid for software.

I hadn't heard of this one. A quick look at the website it seems to claim to stack and process. Any ideas how that compares for processing to Pixinsight or Photoshop? Does the stacking software have any advantages over DSS or Nebulosity ?

12 minutes ago, cjdawson said:

As for the version of photoshop, you could get the photographers pack which is a subscription for £9.99 a month, this includes both photoshop CC and LightRoom CC.

Many thanks that clears that one up ? 

I do have Gimp but surprised if it does exactly what Photoshop does, but I like surprises  ?  .

Steve

[cjdawson]

I went to a presentation about APP at the SGL star camp in october.  From what I understand, the software is designed for two purposes....

 

1. Stacking images and doing the basic processing

2. making mosaics.

 

The whole way that the software works has was the subjects of the authors university degree.  The processing algorithms and supposed to be better than Deep sky stacker.   I don't have enough data to be able to confirm that one though.    What I have seen is that it does do something things very easily though - gradient removal and the like.  I do like the output of want I've seen so far. I'm looking forward to getting some serious data for it to process.

[The Admiral]

If I understand correctly, APP doesn't use the ubiqitous DCRAW to unscramble the file, but the author has chosen to write his own software for demosaicing. As a result the cameras which it will work with are limited. SWAG on this forum has made some videos about the software.

For an alternative approach there is StarTools (http://www.startools.org), very reasonably priced and very effective. But if you like the PI approach it may not appeal. Free unlimited trial available, except it cannot save. It doesn't do stacking.

Astroart also has a lot going for it, and Ollie on this forum is a fan of it for stacking.

Ian

[PhotoGav]

The problem here is how many tools are required to make a beautiful sculpture and which chisel is best?!

I think that there are three steps to processing:

1. Calibration, registration and stacking

2. Initial processing

3. Tweaks, buffing and polishing

As you already note, there are multiple tools available for each step of the way and some tools cover multiple steps. PixInsight is probably the most complete solution as it will do all three steps (I have skirted around the edges of PI, but am not a regular user). It is also a great value package for what it does. True, it has a steep learning curve, as is normal with a Swiss Army Knife solution that has loads of tools in it and really all astrophotography programs have a pretty steep learning curve, so if you are frightened of learning, step away now! It sounds as though you are already some way up the PI learning curve, so I am tempted to suggest that you continue that journey until you come to a point when PI is not giving you the results that you are after. You can then look to add tools to your toolbox. There are some people out there who suggest that it is easy to spot a PI processed image. I think that can hold true, but in the hands of an experienced user, PI can create stunning results - please step forwards Mr Barry Wilson!

Photoshop is really only good for step 3 of the process. However, it does that exceptionally well. It also has the advantage of being good for all your daytime photographic processing requirements too. It is a very powerful program and does take some learning. Once you get to grips with it, you will love all the possibilities offered by masks, sharpening, colour tweaking and the miriad of 'magic spells' available to make your images 'pop'.

If you don't have PI, you need something to do steps 1 and 2. Enter programs like Astro Pixel Processor (APP), Deep Sky Stacker (DSS), Nebulosity, Astro Art, etc. etc. I used to use Nebulosity as I am a Mac user and that was the best option at the time. However, a year or so ago APP entered the market. I gave it a go and I now totally rely on it. I love it! The developer is constantly working on improving existing functionality and adding new features. It is excellent for steps 1 and 2 (its ability to perfectly and seamlessly stitch together a mosaic is, I believe, the best on offer). It has a pretty good stab at step 3, but personally, I use Photoshop at that point.

A quick note on DSS - I haven't used it very much so can't really comment about it too much, however, the one thing that I have used in it to great effect is it's Comet Stacking abilities. The other good thing is that it is FREE!

So, you have three routes in front of you: A. PixInsight (££) all the way or B. APP (£) plus Photoshop (£) or C. DSS (Free) & GIMP (Free). I think that routes A or B are the normal and preferred routes, both with ample support available here and across the internet. If I didn't have experience with Photoshop already before starting astrophotography, I think that I would go down the PixInsight route - one off payment, steep learning curve, but plenty of help and support, does everything you need it to do to create great images. I do love my APP and Photoshop though and wouldn't swap them for anything! Well, not today anyway...

The truth is that ultimately you will want to use all the tools available to you as the more chisels you have in your toolbox the better the chance of finding the right chisel to make that specific mark in the marble that brings your sculpture to life.

[LightBucket]

APP all the way...

[Adreneline]

Just to confuse even more!

I have used PI for the last two years and am a big fan. However, I recently started using APP (primarily for mosaics on a renter's licence) and have been getting (IMHO) better results with calibration, registration and integration; I have not used it for post-processing prefering to stick with PI.

Another alternative to PS is Affinity. It has a lot in common with PS but in my opinion does not offer the same ease in accessing channels but it is layers based and has all the familiar PS tools at a fraction of the price.

Adrian

[PeterCPC]

+1 for APP. Have a look at Affinity Photo for post processing.

Peter

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Many thanks for all the advice  and some very detailed responses. Thanks to all for taking the time to help me ? 

I have downloaded APP and obtained the trial license so will give it a go.

The trouble with these trails for beginners like myself is that often the data is just lacking in the first place due to the novice issue and still learning, also not being fully conversant with all the terminology just yet it all takes time and inevitably the license will expire before you can put it to full use. But the only way forward is to try. Maybe a better trial is to use other data that is available that is known to be good data and see what I can achieve with that.

I will get there in the end (but no idea when that is ? ) and no doubt will try many of these tools along the way. In the end I guess it is my choice and what I feel works best for me but certainly all this advice will help me greatly.

Steve

[alexbb]

I used in the past DSS + StarTools + GIMP. I now use APP for calibration and stacking (and mosaics when needed), PixInsight for most of the processing and GIMP for the final colour enhancements (since it's quicker to combine a few layers and play with the opacity sliders compared to generating masks and adding images*masks in PixelMath).

There are a few advantages to work with the images in their linear (unstretched) stages. PixInsight does this.

Check out my progress on the same data (quite a limited amount of it). Original version was stacked in DSS and further processed in StarTools and GIMP. The second one was recalibrated and restacked in APP then applied some PixInsight processes which I was just learning. There's no additional sharpening / local contrast increase in the second image as at that time I didn't know how to properly isolate only some areas and work only there. Perhaps I should give it another go these days and see if I can come back with something better.

 

[Adreneline]

33 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

the data is just lacking

Help yourself to this on Dropbox if you wish; it's not the best but it will allow for some trial testing maybe

Adrian

[teoria_del_big_bang]

1 minute ago, Adreneline said:

Help yourself to this on Dropbox if you wish; it's not the best but it will allow for some trial testing maybe

Adrian

Adrian,

Thanks for that I will give it a go.

Steve

[dannybgoode]

I am starting off with Nebulosity for at least the capturing, stacking and stretching but have got no real data to put it to a stern test. 

I use Affinty Photo for post. Miles cheaper than PS (£48 for a full permanent licence) and every bit as powerful in most respects. It also doesn’t make me want to jump through a plate glass window like GIMP does - honestly I’d rather [removed word] on my hands and clap than use GIMP. 

Nebulosity is a good package and as with anything the good images are really created with good data - the software, whilst important is less relevant. Look on the Nebulosity site for images people have created with it, they’re every bit as good as those on the PI site. 

I may well try PI and APP at some point as well and decide which I like using the most. 

[Adreneline]

39 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Thanks for that I will give it a go.

This was my first attempt. I have since pre-processed in APP, deleted some dodgy lights and scrapped the 1200s OIII, and I think the end result is better. Maybe!
 

[tomato]

If you want some quality data you can download some promotional files from Deep Sky West for free and Olly Penrice kindly put some excellent M51 data on the forum as a Christmas present to SGL users. This can be found here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pxrxxtkr6khwvsf/AADNDoXJZh4t7zjI3LdIirjea?dl=0