bbc four tonight

[mark skelton]

on bbc 4 tonight there are 2 programes, first is lost horizons on the big bang, and the 2nd is called the big bang machine witch is about cern's l.r.c

[Dippus]

Thanks for the heads up mark. I'll watch those with interest.

Cheers

Mark

[rawhead]

Thanks for that

Flagged both to record :occasion5:

[algol]

cheers very much mate, somethin to do tonight whilst i wont be stargazin

[SteelRat]

Watching now.

This lost horizons one is with Jim AlKhalili - the chap who did 'Atom'.

[ringz]

I've set my recorder. Thanks for the warning.

--

Martyn

[lunator]

I do hope they find the Higgs Boson

[Kai]

I do hope they find the Higgs Boson

It will be hiding behind the Fridge

A interesting program though.

[GazOC]

The presenter is very good, very accessible.

[mark skelton]

worthwhile watching good job I spoted it when I did.

[MikeP]

Thanks for the heads up Mark - good programs.

I must admit, I hope they don't find the Higgs boson - sorry Ian.

Mike

[GazOC]

Great program!!

Why not Mike?

[SteelRat]

Both shows worth the watch 8)

AF did Atom, that was a decent series. Seen Prof Brian Cox on a couple of good shows too.

Got 'The Wrong Door' on now

[mark skelton]

yep I've got ghosthunting on now. spooky

[MikeP]

Difficult to explain Gaz - I think the concern that the standard model is such a good fit but doesn't quite get the cigar is disappointing. I'd prefer that new fundamental particles are discovered that may give clues as to how that standard model should be altered.

I suppose the Higgs boson would fit that description but just one more particle to go and bingo? Too good to be true.

My physics and maths fall short of a better understanding so it is purely opinion on my part. Whatever happens, it will make fascinating reading once the results can be analysed.

Mike

[lunator]

Mike

I don't thnk the HB will be quite the panacea particle physists want but it would be good to know that the standard model was clse to reality.

My main thought about the Higgs Field is it does 'smack' of the ether concept that was popular in the 19th century...

[GazOC]

I know what you mean Mike, although I disagree with you on the Higgs boson, I have the same "problem" with dark matter, that just seems like too "easy" an answer to me.

I've no idea why Higgs feels OK to me and the dark matter doesn't...????

[mark skelton]

I dont have much knowlage on these things but I've found these 2 programes very interesting. Shame the weather aint this good.

[MikeP]

That's exactly it - too easy an answer. Obviously I'm happy to be wrong because it will be a triumph for the scientific method.

I had to chuckle at the comments about steady state having to invent increasingly complicated theories to explain more recent discoveries like background radiation - then in the next breath we have dark matter

Its more exciting than any novel I've ever read - perhaps I need to get out more.

Mike

[GazOC]

I've been thinking Mike (and drinking!!) but I think the difference to me is that at least with the Higgs boson they've identified the properties they expect to see from the particle, with dark matter they just add more or take away of the stuff as and when they need it.

[barkis]

If this particle is produced in the collisions, it is said they will only know it existed by the signature it leaves behind after a very rapid decay. So fast is this decay, it will not even be visible to the high speed imagers.

I was engrossed in this programme, and I trying like hell to understand what most of it meant. Is the Higgs Boson, a gravity bridge, for want of a description, and is it's size anything to do with it's vulnerability in the collisions.

I am not even sure if my questions make any sense, let alone the answers they might generate.

Ron

[GazOC]

They need a Higgs field to make the model work, its the 'stuff' that the particles interact with to give them mass, its like the 'ether' that the ancient Greeks used to believe in.

They can't detect the field but every field has a particle associated with it, they think they know it's properties and they are looking for this Higgs boson to prove the field.

[MikeP]

with the Higgs boson they've identified the properties they expect to see from the particle

That's why I said if they found it, it would be a triumph for the scientific method.

I totally agree with you on dark matter ..... but what does hold spinning galaxies together if the gravity of the total non-dark mass is insufficient?

Mike

PS No drinking here, just a vivid imagination

[barkis]

OK thanks Gaz, I've gone over your answer a few times, and I think I can paint a picture of what you say.

Ron

[GazOC]

with the Higgs boson they've identified the properties they expect to see from the particle

That's why I said if they found it, it would be a triumph for the scientific method.

I totally agree with you on dark matter ..... but what does hold spinning galaxies together if the gravity of the total non-dark mass is insufficient?

You did also say in your first post that you hoped they didn't find the Higgs. IMHO if they do find it then its good news and 'job done', the same goes if they can can prove dark matter.

I'm no expert on dark matter but I think MOND gets dismissed too lightly, at least it doesn't need to invoke varying amounts of matter that no one has ever managed to experimentally verify.