Lunar Crater WERNER 5/1/17

[mikeDnight]

Still determined to get to grips with sketching the moon, I tried my hand last night at the crater Werner. It caught my eye due to its interesting terracacing and a fine linear feature extending from its central peak. This feature isn't shown in my Rukl's Atlas. It was certainly more than a mere shadow as the terracing fell away at one side and extended well beyond the crater rim.

Thanks for looking! 

Mike

 

[Pieter]

/scientific senses stimulated

Thanks for sharing this!

[Mark at Beaufort]

Mike excellent work and sketch. As you say Mike this feature is not shown on any documents that I have so you have 'whet my appetite' to go looking next time Werner is nicely placed.

[Stu]

Interesting Mike. I was doing some research on when the Lunar X is visible, and it seems it is linked with when Werner is on the terminator. I am working on a little post about it  

Nice sketch!

Stu

[Ruud]

Wonderful, Mike! Thank you for sharing your observation.

[Moonshane]

Brilliant Mike

I was almost tempted to try a moon sketch last night but no time.

[laudropb]

Lovely sketch Mike. Certainly a very interesting feature. I can not find reference to it in any of my sources either.

[johnfosteruk]

lovely sketch. I'll be looking for this next time Werner's placed properly for viewing. more please.

[mikeDnight]

3 hours ago, Stu said:

Interesting Mike. I was doing some research on when the Lunar X is visible, and it seems it is linked with when Werner is on the terminator. I am working on a little post about it  

Nice sketch!

Stu

Ive just been looking through Percy Wilkins book The Moon by Wilkins and Moore. You may be interested in the end comment re Werner. 

My sketch was made using a prism diagonal so north is top and east is towards the right.  Who needs a 33" achromat when you can use a 3.9" Tak fluorite?!   Obviously the Suns low angle during last night's observation must have been just right to show the shadow as it did, but to be honest, it was not difficult to see. Wikins only saw it upto the crater rim, but as you can see, the cleft extends well beyond the crater rim!

Mike.

 

[Stu]

Mike, I don't have time to check whether the orientation agrees with this info, but I believe you can see a trace of this feature running from centre down to bottom left in this image, or top right to bottom left in the crop, it wiggles more than your sketch but is this the same thing?

EDIT I've just seen a straighter feature going centre to bottom right. Eyes playing tricks on me!

 

[mikeDnight]

11 minutes ago, Stu said:

Mike, I don't have time to check whether the orientation agrees with this info, but I believe you can see a trace of this feature running from centre down to bottom left in this image, or top right to bottom left in the crop, it wiggles more than your sketch but is this the same thing?

EDIT I've just seen a straighter feature going centre to bottom right. Eyes playing tricks on me!

 

Thanks Stu,

I can see it in the image just near the terracing. It's amazing how even a slight change in illumination changes the scene dramatically!

Mike

[Mark at Beaufort]

Mike thanks for the reminder of Percy Wilkins - I bought his Moon Map book back in the 1960s and forgot to look until you mentioned his comments. Here is a copy of Werner from the book.

[John]

Great sketch Mike and an interesting thread on this crater

The Moon was looking stunning last night through my Tak FC 100 as well. I wish that the cloud cover had stayed away a little longer.

I could have sworn that I was getting glimpses of the central rille in the Vallis Alpes - thats normally a 12" dob under great seeing target !

[mikeDnight]

1 hour ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

Mike thanks for the reminder of Percy Wilkins - I bought his Moon Map book back in the 1960s and forgot to look until you mentioned his comments. Here is a copy of Werner from the book.

Thanks Mark,

Wilkins map can at times get some criticism for being too complex and inaccurate. I think it is complex but I've not yet found it to be inaccurate, on the other hand, understanding his lifetimes work is another thing. In the south top map you posted there are two dashed lines extending from one of the peaks from above centre up towards one o'clock. This could be his way of representing the cleft? 

Mike 

[mikeDnight]

2 hours ago, John said:

Great sketch Mike and an interesting thread on this crater

The Moon was looking stunning last night through my Tak FC 100 as well. I wish that the cloud cover had stayed away a little longer.

I could have sworn that I was getting glimpses of the central rille in the Vallis Alpes - thats normally a 12" dob under great seeing target !

Im glad you can see the central rille John. It's a difficult little chap but its definitely there, though perhaps at the limit of detectability. In my scope it appears as the finest broken bright line on most occasions, but once I saw it almost complete. To me it appears to be fractionally towards the southern wall of the valley. Try for the fine dark rille that crosses the valley width around the centre of the valleys length, and extends both sides into the mountains. It's very fine but because it runs reasonably north/south it appears dark due to shadow. It remains visible for a couple of days or so after coming out from the terminator. Again its not in Rukls Atlas! 

Mike

[laudropb]

Just out of interest, Werner is this months featured target in the Moonwatch column in S@N

[mikeDnight]

34 minutes ago, laudropb said:

Just out of interest, Werner is this months featured target in the Moonwatch column in S@N

Thanks for that! I haven't bought S@N for a very long time, but it seems I'll have to make a trip to WH.Smith's and check it out. 

Mike

[laudropb]

Any problems getting it PM me and I will send you a copy.

[acr_astro]

Hi Mike,

thanks for positng this impressive sketch here !  And thanks to all others for this interesting discussion and diggin in maps and literature - I like this kind of stuff! By the way: Wilkins' map is horrible at first glance but contains a lot of details which are sometimes not visible on the LROC pictures. I have a copy of his maps in my lunar bookshelf too.

Achim

[mikeDnight]

1 hour ago, acr_astro said:

Hi Mike,

thanks for positng this impressive sketch here !  And thanks to all others for this interesting discussion and diggin in maps and literature - I like this kind of stuff! By the way: Wilkins' map is horrible at first glance but contains a lot of details which are sometimes not visible on the LROC pictures. I have a copy of his maps in my lunar bookshelf too.

Achim

Thanks for your kind comments Achim. I've only ever seen small parts of Wilkins map but have never seen the complete thing. I know its not highly regarded by some, but when you realise its the compilation of a lifetimes work, then it becomes much more meaningful. I quite like it as it is often the only source that indicates the existance of some of the features I see. You have to admire the man for his effort and unswerving enthusiasm. I believe his map to be very accurate but very complex!

Mike ☺

[mikeDnight]

15 hours ago, laudropb said:

Any problems getting it PM me and I will send you a copy.

Thanks very much for that kind offer! I was able to grab a copy this morning from Tesco's.? At first I tried WH Smith's and almost bought the wrong thing, a £12.99 Sky @Night spespecial. I really need to wear my glasses before taking things to the checkout! The old eyes are getting worse when viewing close up! Smith's had no other astro mags on the shelf so i went to Tesco's.

Mike