Skywatcher Skyliner 200p for a beginner?

[Duffbus]

On 01/01/2017 at 22:44, brantuk said:

I still have my 200P - but it's EQ goto mounted - my dob is a 16" manual scope and it's as much a joy to use as the EQ - just in a different way - you'll love it I guarantee.

I'd liked to have gone down that route for astro-photography as I am a keen photographer. I've quickly realised that's a whole other ball game!!

[brantuk]

Me too - trouble is I'm a keen "wannabe astro photographer" lol - all the gear and no idea. I did manage three pics once M31, M45, and M42 - but the processing stymied me and I've not taken a shot since lol. So for the time being I'm strictly an observer.

[BritAngler]

You're getting a great 'scope there, it will last you for years! If you haven't already, download Stellarium for free, it's a great program that will help you enormously. Also buy Turn Left At Orion

A couple of other things you will need to buy rather quickly - a collimating cap and a Cheshire eyepiece. Both are used in collimating your 'scope (despite them being advertised as Dobsonians, they are in fact Newtonian telescopes on a mount that is called a Dobsonian, but isn't really (but that's just me being pedantic)). Collimation (getting the mirrors  properly aligned) is a bit daunting at first but is an art easily learned

John

[Duffbus]

6 hours ago, brantuk said:

Me too - trouble is I'm a keen "wannabe astro photographer" lol - all the gear and no idea. I did manage three pics once M31, M45, and M42 - but the processing stymied me and I've not taken a shot since lol. So for the time being I'm strictly an observer.

The experience of you folks on this site has quickly levelled my expectations - and I too am staying strictly with observing.........for now! 

[Duffbus]

4 hours ago, BritAngler said:

You're getting a great 'scope there, it will last you for years! If you haven't already, download Stellarium for free, it's a great program that will help you enormously. Also buy Turn Left At Orion

A couple of other things you will need to buy rather quickly - a collimating cap and a Cheshire eyepiece. Both are used in collimating your 'scope (despite them being advertised as Dobsonians, they are in fact Newtonian telescopes on a mount that is called a Dobsonian, but isn't really (but that's just me being pedantic)). Collimation (getting the mirrors  properly aligned) is a bit daunting at first but is an art easily learned

John

Thanks John, I'll look in to those. Scope should arrive tomorrow ready for my wife's birthday on Saturday. Hope she doesn't freak at the size of it!!

[cotterless45]

Just a lovely scope. There's plenty mods on here , just a couple of simple ones.

Cut out two circles from plastic milk bottle cartons, put hole in middle of each . Then slide these down each side where the removed handles go. You might like to cut long strips to easily place these or reposition after transport. They make the movement very smooth. 

Get some car Turtle Wax , apply it to the base surface opposite the Teflon gliders and rub in. This'll make this movement silky smooth and stop "sticktion". You'll notice the whole weight sits on those little gliders and a small round disc. You can easily remove the wee disc. Slip on two cd /DVD discs ( Cliff Richard is ideal )and a disc of milk carton plastic as spacers. It'll glide and sit better.

A bit of Wilko's flocking (website) or blackboard paint opposite the focuser increases the contrast as does blackening the edge of the secondary mirror with a thick permanent pen. Make sure in all operations that the tube is horizontal.

Ditch the finderscope, real pain and so difficult for beginners. A red dot finder or Telrad with no magnification or inverted view let's you keep both eyes open and get your target.

An 18" high small table / bench at the eyepiece will let you sit comfortably and enjoy the views.

Telrad finder maps are free to download. The only glad you need is the Pocket Sky Atlas, that has Telrad scale at the front and you can cut your own with a plastic sheet to put over the charts. Ace  . 

Never ever do anything to the scope with tools without putting the tube horizontally.Finally , leave the mirror alone. You won't need to clean it until you can't see your reflection. They keep collimation incredibly well. Get to a local club in the very best advice and enjoy !

Looking forward to your first light under 

clear skies !

Nick.

[estwing]

Brilliant advice Nick

[JOC]

cotterless45 - Sorry to borrow this thread, but I'm interested in the advice you gave to the OP above.  I've got the flextube goto version of this telescope, but my circular base came in one part so I know nothing of the mechanism in there (and I am a little chary of taking apart something something that 98% works).  So it doesn't work 100%?  No, I've docked it 2% because of a tendency it has when moving under the goto drive to Squeak!  Quite loudly - mum could hear it inside the house last night - this seems less than useful to me.  Would any of the mods you suggested above work on my mount to stop the squeaking and how can I confidently take apart what I need to apply them.    

[brantuk]

On the flextubes the "sticktion" is applied through use of a rather large polystyrene foam washer between the base board and rocker box. I say large - it's something like a foot or 15" in diameter. This is what causes the squeaking - you can see it if you carefully peer between the two boards and shine a torch in there.

I started disassembling my 12" flextube goto when I had one - but chickened out when I opened up the motor and realised how delicately balanced the setup was. At the time I was inexperienced and doubted being able to get it all back together correctly. It would be different if I still had one today. But the squeaky culprit is deffo the polystyrene.

[JOC]

brantuk - you have probably hit the nail on the head there - yes, now I think about it the sound is exactly the sort of squeak you get from polystyrene.  I've also just this second been and looked - yes, just as you describe, a huge layer of polystyrene is def. evident between the two base boards.  You use the word 'sticktion' I assume that this refers to a quality designed to allow the mount to hold the telescope in place (even I can see that it doesn't want to whizz around too freely).  Thus, I guess that this degree of 'sticktion' is an intended part of the design - yes?  Assuming so, I guess it doesn't want making too slick, but is there a way of stopping/limiting the noise that me 'scared of dismantling my new toy' can easily apply please?  Or will it just wear off the longer I use the telescope?

[brantuk]

Hi JOC - unfortunately I found the noise just got worse - it was the one thing I didn't like about the scope but the rest of it was fine (optics, tracking, goto etc). Yes the "sticktion" is that magic quality that keeps the scope steady once nudged to where you want it to point. There needs to be adequate sticktion on both axes such that it moves easily but doesn't budge once placed for observing. You have the added complication of motors on yours.

Not to sure what you can do about the noise - I'd have a lot more confidence taking it to bits today than I had back then. Since those times I've built a complete rocker box for a 16" dob and the products used are ptfe blocks on the baseboard and teflon sheet under the rocker box for the az axis. On the alt axis I used the "loopy side" of velcro cos the scope has aluminium wheel bearings. The overall effect is a virtually silent glide (L,R,U,D) and just enough grab to not swing off once placed.

I'm not sure what to do with the flextube - I'd have to take one to bits and invent something. On simpler dobs folks use the "milk bottle washer" solution quite effectively - but you'd have to redo the gap between base board and rocker completely to allow for the difference in depth occupied by the polystyrene. Maybe someone who has had a go already will see this thread and have an idea....

I'll think about it further and let you know if I come up with something.

[Duffbus]

On 06/01/2017 at 05:50, cotterless45 said:

Just a lovely scope. There's plenty mods on here , just a couple of simple ones.

Cut out two circles from plastic milk bottle cartons, put hole in middle of each . Then slide these down each side where the removed handles go. You might like to cut long strips to easily place these or reposition after transport. They make the movement very smooth. 

Get some car Turtle Wax , apply it to the base surface opposite the Teflon gliders and rub in. This'll make this movement silky smooth and stop "sticktion". You'll notice the whole weight sits on those little gliders and a small round disc. You can easily remove the wee disc. Slip on two cd /DVD discs ( Cliff Richard is ideal )and a disc of milk carton plastic as spacers. It'll glide and sit better.

A bit of Wilko's flocking (website) or blackboard paint opposite the focuser increases the contrast as does blackening the edge of the secondary mirror with a thick permanent pen. Make sure in all operations that the tube is horizontal.

Ditch the finderscope, real pain and so difficult for beginners. A red dot finder or Telrad with no magnification or inverted view let's you keep both eyes open and get your target.

An 18" high small table / bench at the eyepiece will let you sit comfortably and enjoy the views.

Telrad finder maps are free to download. The only glad you need is the Pocket Sky Atlas, that has Telrad scale at the front and you can cut your own with a plastic sheet to put over the charts. Ace  . 

Never ever do anything to the scope with tools without putting the tube horizontally.Finally , leave the mirror alone. You won't need to clean it until you can't see your reflection. They keep collimation incredibly well. Get to a local club in the very best advice and enjoy !

Looking forward to your first light under 

clear skies !

Nick.

Great stuff, thanks very much Nick! The flocking / blackboard paint advice freaks me out somewhat......I'm sure I'll build up the confidence to tackle jobs like that when I've had the scope a little while! I have noticed a little 'sticktion' but so far I've mainly been studying the moon so not an issue. 

[Duffbus]

UPDATE: 

The scope arrived the day before my wife's birthday and was given as a surprise present, she actually had tears in her eyes she was so overwhelmed bless her!

My fears of the scope being too big have diminished, friends and relatives that have seen it kind of go "wow! that's bloody huge!" but they're expecting a stereotypical small scope on a tripod. Having owned it for a week now I'm completely used to the size. I find it a breeze to set up and it fits suitably snug in the back of my camper van so is portable too!

Being as you've all been so helpful with advice, I'll have to share my very first experience of looking through the scope..........very excitedly set it up to look at the moon while the wife was throwing on layers of warm clothing. Figured I was all good to go, centred the moon in the finder scope, peered in to the view finder *GAH!!* a blinding wash of light. Frantically wound the focus wheel in and out, nope, still a blinding glare of un-focussed white light....(notice the wife through french doors getting shoes on....sh*t!!).....I knew this would happen. Mild panic starts to set in, only moments away from the wife saying "so you bought me (us) this bloody great thing and you can't get it to work!".....think, think........E Y E P I E C E!!!! 

I am such an idiot  eyepiece slotted in and WOW!! 

One week in we've mainly looked at the moon as it's been so amazingly clear. I've managed to get some lovely pictures just using my phone at the eyepiece and I'm slowly learning what's what features wise. Facts like the Tycho crater is a young crater.......probably only 108 million years old totally fascinate me! 

Thanks for giving me the confidence to buy this scope, and if anyone reading this is in the position I was a couple of weeks ago (wondering whether to take the plunge) do it!!

(pic attached is just mobile phone at the eyepiece - I'm no astrophotographer!!)

 

[Charic]

My Skyliner after a few years is still in mint condition,  works as it should, even better from a darker site, easy for me to say when I can go and sit somewhere in the Cairngorms, or Lochindorb and be miles from any light source.  but the main reason for this text is that the scope is still in its basic form. Its regarded as the UKs most popular Dobsonian in its basic form. I've thought long and hard over most of the fixes and additions to this scope, but for me, I`m not sure their essential for me to  get the  job done.

My scope  is still in its basic form  and it still works very well. My 'stiction' is perfect, no  additional washers, my secondary is static,  again no grinding and additional washers, its not internally baffled, no extra paint either.  I've used a  DIY foam Dew extension, more so  for light reduction, not really sure  if that really works, so its used less these days, I've had two Telrad's, both sold on,  preferring the 9x50 finder,  I just keep both eyes open when aiming, it makes sense when the image aligns?

The 200P is a very good scope without all the tweaks, and mods, and  performs even  better when used at a  truly dark site, away from any visible man-made light pollution, that's the only real tweak it needs, get away to a dark site!
Its  the UK's most popular scope in its basic form, due  to its performance and pricing, not because it can be tricked out ?

Having the facility of a dark site,  the scope  cooled and collimated,  and having eyepieces to suit your eyes and field of view is whats important. Get this right and the Skyliner  could last you a lifetime, until you look through a bigger scope maybe!

 

I'm glad the new scope has arrived, and that its working as you had hoped, some folk fail at the first hurdle by leaving both eyepiece adapters in the focuser, but leaving out an eyepiece might go down in history? Welcome to the SGL, you will be remembered for that but not mocked, its part of the fun. the process and the learning curve. Can I make one more suggestion, the 8mm and 12mm Starguiders work very well in this scope. I would love to have their 6mm, but they don't produce one at present so a William Optics 6mm sufficed, but I'm viewing  with the Baader, Revelation and the Tele Vue, their  all good,  but their just 6mm eyepieces, matching the scope focal ratio of f/6, giving me a respectable 200x power from the eyepiece,  but there are differences in the fields of view, its finding what suits. The 25mm you have is a fair eyepiece,  its the 10mm that will make a difference to your viewing, compared to using the 60° 8mm Starguider. There are so many brands out there, only you will know which is best through trial an error, folk here will attest to their own favoured brands, they will also work well, balls in your court

[Duffbus]

6 minutes ago, Charic said:

My Skyliner after a few years is still in mint condition,  works as it should, even better from a darker site, easy for me to say when I can go and sit somewhere in the Cairngorms, or Lochindorb and be miles from any light source.  but the main reason for this text is that the scope is still in its basic form. Its regarded as the UKs most popular Dobsonian in its basic form. I've thought long and hard over most of the fixes and additions to this scope, but for me, I`m not sure their essential for me to  get the  job done.

My scope  is still in its basic form  and it still works very well. My 'stiction' is perfect, no  additional washers, my secondary is static,  again no grinding and additional washers, its not internally baffled, no extra paint either.  I've used a  DIY foam Dew extension, more so  for light reduction, not really sure  if that really works, so its used less these days, I've had two Telrad's, both sold on,  preferring the 9x50 finder,  I just keep both eyes open when aiming, it makes sense when the image aligns?

The 200P is a very good scope without all the tweaks, and mods, and  performs even  better when used at a  truly dark site, away from any visible man-made light pollution, that's the only real tweak it needs, get away to a dark site!
Its  the UK's most popular scope in its basic form, due  to its performance and pricing, not because it can be tricked out ?

Having the facility of a dark site,  the scope  cooled and collimated,  and having eyepieces to suit your eyes and field of view is whats important. Get this right and the Skyliner  could last you a lifetime, until you look through a bigger scope maybe!

 

I'm glad the new scope has arrived, and that its working as you had hoped, some folk fail at the first hurdle by leaving both eyepiece adapters in the focuser, but leaving out an eyepiece might go down in history? Welcome to the SGL, you will be remembered for that but not mocked, its part of the fun. the process and the learning curve.

Cheers Charic, I'm totally fine with being mocked, I've learnt so much already from this site I figured I could at least give a little back and maybe make someone chuckle at my stupidity!

[Charic]

.... my first images of the Moon are stunning for my needs using adapters and a Nikon D5000  then the Android, now the iPhone.
The Moon is  bright enough, large enough to get some real stunning images using the basic setup that we own. I was looking at a Moon crater recently, apparently its only 4 miles wide, was just sharp enough to see glimpses with the 6mm EP's.
I have higher, the 3.2mm and 5mm, but really, their just part of the ( I must buy) collection. They work, but I only use them on the Moon and at such a high magnification, even your phone images may show a blur as the Moon moves out of frame.
I think you can add or mod a phone adaptor to reduce any hand shake, maybe even  stack the images, forming a final 'one'  although not sure our phones use raw data, if that's required to stack, but I'm certain its possible to get even better images if we work on it?
 I also use a formula based on the numbers of scope f/6. A 6mm a 12mm and the  ??mm ( 6x the size of your eye pupil )  for your low powered wide-field. ( If your both using the scope, take an average ).  For my wide-field I use the 2" Panaview.
This is my basic set for this scope, no matter what the brand of eyepiece, as long as their comfortable to use.

[Duffbus]

5 minutes ago, Charic said:

.... my first images of the Moon are stunning for my needs suing adaptors and a Nikon D5000  then the Android, now the iPhone.
The Moon is  bright enough, large enough to get some real stunning images using the basic setup that we own. I was looking at a Moon crater recently, apparently its only 4 miles wide, was just sharp enough to see glimpses with the 6mm EP's.
I have higher, the 3.2mm and 5mm, but really, their just part of the ( I must buy) collection. They work, but I only use them on the Moon and at such a high magnification, even your phone images may show a blur as the Moon moves out of frame?
My formula is to use the numbers on the scope f/6. A 6mm a 12mm and 6x the size of your eye pupil for your low powered wide-field. For wide-field I use the 2" Panaview.  This is my basic set for this scope, no matter what the brand of eyepiece, as long as their comfortable to use.

Thank you, I'll look into these eyepieces (only a matter of time before the hobby expands....it's the law!). I have a Canon 500D which I've thought about getting attached to the scope. I'm sure I read somewhere on here that these scopes don't particularly suit photography (certainly not long exposure stuff obviously) due to focal length? I didn't buy it to do photography so I'm not particularly fussed tbh.

[Charic]

25 minutes ago, Duffbus said:

due to focal length?

.......its  really down to the lack of tracking, which the Skyliner was not made for, but could be adapted, but your  scope effectively  becomes a 1200 mm  prime focal   lens using  'T' adapters  or AFOCAL using the camera and eyepiece combo to view the image,   but I would buy me an 80 or 100mm ED Refractor on an EQ system for that purpose.  https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

I believe that the cannon brand is better favoured in astronomy circles, to date, as  they  have better sensors, not sure if that applies to the 500D ( folk here will soon tell if your not sure), but Nikon are not far behind!
Anyway, you now need some binoculars so that you can share when not looking through the scope, it appears that were talking about your scope, the one you have bought and  gifted to the  Mrs.
Happy Birthday Mrs Duffbus. 

[AdeKing]

I have this scope too and just love it, I don't think that you'll be disappointed.

Personally, I find that it a bit cumbersome to move about and in one piece and remove the OTA to move it into position.

I've have just fitted two Rolson Carry Straps (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160896105020?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) to the OTA, following a recommendation on another thread and I find that these make carrying the tube a much more secure affair.

Ade

[Astro Imp]

So pleased you and your wife are enjoying your new scope, it can be very daunting buying your first scope and after pressing the buy button wondering if you've made a big mistake.

I see you are spending a lot of time on the moon, and why not? To get more enjoyment from our neighbour a moon atlas is essential, a very good one which is free can be found here:- https://sourceforge.net/projects/virtualmoon/

Another fun thing is the lunar 100, a list of 100 features to find starting from the very easy to the very difficult.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Astro Imp]

On 05/01/2017 at 16:29, brantuk said:

Me too - trouble is I'm a keen "wannabe astro photographer" lol - all the gear and no idea. I did manage three pics once M31, M45, and M42 - but the processing stymied me and I've not taken a shot since lol. So for the time being I'm strictly an observer.

I do like a man who recognises his limitations 

[brantuk]

1 hour ago, Astro Imp said:

I do like a man who recognises his limitations

You've been watching too many Clint Eastwood films Alan lol