Celestron AVX Mount Errors

[Nuka]

Agreed! 

would you say that 'generally' the AVX is reliable? I'd hate to get to a dark sky site full of hopes and dreams only to power it up and see 'Boot Loader Error' lol! 

I have to say my Advanced GT Mount only needed re-flashing once and it was reliable.

[RayD]

58 minutes ago, Nuka said:

would you say that 'generally' the AVX is reliable? I'd hate to get to a dark sky site full of hopes and dreams only to power it up and see 'Boot Loader Error' lol! 

I have to say my Advanced GT Mount only needed re-flashing once and it was reliable.

Well I would say yes, but of course have had this couple of issues, but when using it I've generally had no issues.  I also have a AZ-EQ6, and they are very different, but then so was the price. 

I'm pretty happy with it and can't say I've seen any reviews slating it as particularly unreliable, just relatively limited in capacity.

[Nuka]

9 minutes ago, RayD said:

Well I would say yes, but of course have had this couple of issues, but when using it I've generally had no issues.  I also have a AZ-EQ6, and they are very different, but then so was the price. 

I'm pretty happy with it and can't say I've seen any reviews slating it as particularly unreliable, just relatively limited in capacity.

Yeah I agree Ray, During use mine has also been fine. I had a decent 4 hour session just before it died and it was working very well. I'm only using a DSLR w/dovetail and 250mm lense atm, but I've ordered a skywatcher 130P-DS Newtonian. I think that's probably about as much as i'd want to put on this mount for AP. Also i want to be able to bundle into the car and take to dark sky at short notice. LP where I live is terrible sadly so I decided on a semi lightweight setup. 

Used to have the C9.25 on the Advanced GT but my god was that some gear to lug around. Especially with 2 counterweights and I think the tube was like 10kg ish. Then there was the overwhelming fear of dropping the OTA lol! 

 

Just checked out your AZ-EQ6! wow what a fantastic mount, it looks like it could hold a car lol! I will probably move towards that standard of mount once i've done what I can with the AVX.

[Ken82]

To be honest the cfm/software in general has never been a strong point of Celestron , I find it quite primitive to say the least . I had issues with my old cpc deluxe mount ! I've since moved to a cge pro and have no such issue but when I tried nexremote the firmware detected was several issues behind the current . I'm quite positive this hasn't been updated for several years ! 

I would like to think Celestron spend the extra resources/money on developing better mechanics in things like the cgx mount but only time will tell . 

[Gazabone]

I hate my AVX with a passion, so much so that it's languishing in the attic (can't quite bring myself to putting it out for the dustcart). It's never worked well and I diagnosed a Dec encoder error (very long story which I won't go into). I sent it off to Celestron and when I got it back I powered it up but the power connection wasn't good and it switched on and off a few times a second and now won't initialise. Decided at that point to give up. Now have a SW NEQ6 and that's an absolute dream, fantastic mount. I like Celestron SCT (I have a 6" and an 8" and they're both great)  but have a real (probably) irrational dislike of their eq mounts. 

[Nuka]

Many thanks Ken82 and Gazabone for your comments . I definitely believe that CFM is JUNK and you only have to use it once to realise it was an afterthought. Anyone know any other software that launches like CFM does lol? Why not write some proper executable code (surely they are making enough dollars?)

The AVX on paper seems like a great option (probably why so many of us got one) but like so many things these days, it is poorly made where it counts. I love the look of the mount and It 'feels' reassuringly well put together but man... the connections, electronics, software.... and where the hell is the straightforward Hand Control USB to USB connection? Serial ports have been gone for years lol!  

I hope i'm wrong... and when it comes back i'll be sure to post my experiences! 

[StevieO]

My first mount was an AVX. When it worked it was great, but in the first couple of months I had the same issues with system errors, tried to reflash with CFM, failed. I sent it back and when I got it back again  it failed second time out. I sent it back again, this time with the 12v power tank, as the dealer tried to make out that this was the problem (or that it was my fault for doing something I shouldn't!). I still had problems when it was returned for the second time, so I traded it in for an NEQ6, needless to say from a different dealer, which has worked flawlessly.

I wouldn't have another AVX.

 

StevieO

[Nuka]

4 hours ago, StevieO said:

My first mount was an AVX. When it worked it was great, but in the first couple of months I had the same issues with system errors, tried to reflash with CFM, failed. I sent it back and when I got it back again  it failed second time out. I sent it back again, this time with the 12v power tank, as the dealer tried to make out that this was the problem (or that it was my fault for doing something I shouldn't!). I still had problems when it was returned for the second time, so I traded it in for an NEQ6, needless to say from a different dealer, which has worked flawlessly.

I wouldn't have another AVX.

 

StevieO

Thanks for your post StevieO.  Ah that is interesting. Very similar problems to me and.. (as Ray was saying earlier) highly unlikely to be our power supplies because they output a nice clean signal. I should hear something in the next few days as to what has gone wrong with mine. I just hope whatever it is, it gets sorted and I can start to feel confident in the AVX's reliability. Otherwise... I feel my relationship with Celestron may well be coming to an end lol......

[Nuka]

Hi All! #UPDATE# AVX problems.

 

Just heard from Steve that the AVX Mount head is going to be replaced for a new one . Looks like Celestron were not able to repair it easily and it probably just made better sense to send me another unit. Feel better now that I wasn't going mad and it wasn't just a simple case of re-flashing the handset.

 

I should have it in the next few days, and i'll post how it's going. I have a 130PDS sat in a box ready for it's first outing yay!

 

Thanks again everyone for you comments and helpful advice!

 

Nuka 

 

[RayD]

Great news 

Now you'll sell it for a bigger one 

[PeterCPC]

Glad to hear.

Peter

[SonnyE]

Ahh, the venerable AVX and its throws... Such forgettable experiences!

My AVX practically came out of the boxes broken. First, it wanted a software update. Celestron sent me a cable to connect it, and a link to update it. I was told that sometimes the software gets corrupted in storage. (That was a first for me. I call "BS") It sputtered along, and then displayed Error Code 16, and Error Code 17. When I called Celestron (local to me) the tech told me those error codes meant motor control board failures. And he authorized return of the mount. Since I had discarded the boxes, I chose to deliver it to them myself and drove it down to them. (Always keep the boxes!)

They replaced it with a Generation II model. Gen II has the dec cord modified to an 8 pin cord (tell-tale Gen identifier). Unfortunately for me, they got all new computers, and like always occurs, nothing worked. And their shipping was down for 20 days. But finally the day came when they told me they were going to unbox the replacement mounts and test them, then ship them in the order which they'd been returned. I was RMS 20. ( wondered why they hadn't been testing the mounts during the time everybody was sitting on their hands) Suddenly one day the UPS truck showed up with a big box. Ah, Nirvana! My new Gen II mount!

O... K... Start again. Stumbled along for about a month (I think) and no software issues. Then one day, while still trying to figure things out, the dreaded Error 16 popped up, then Error 17. Called Celestron again, got an RMS again, this time sent the damned thing by UPS. They put their best tech on it, replaced the motor drive board, and he adjusted out the backlash in the gearing and tested the mount. It came back with Quality Assurance tape all over the box again.

Having a highly technical electrical and electronics background behind me, I had decided this time the mount would ONLY get pure battery 12 volt DC power. So I removed my AGM sealed Trojan Brand battery from our RV, and used it to power the mount and my CCD fan. I have a battery chatger that has an AGM setting I use to keep the battery recharged, But never apply it when my mount is connected. So far, so good! No more failures in my AVX.

My summation: Get a mount that works, then ONLY feed it 12 volt battery power and NEVER use an AC power supply. I was using a Celestron AC adapter Power Supply for the first two motor board failures. NO failures since the strict battery only diet.

Incidentally, these motor drive failures also have been occurring in other Celestron mounts. So I'm very suspect of the Chinese electronics components myself. And, IMHO, I think the mount has been working better on battery power.

[Nuka]

Hi SonnyE and welcome  

A big thanks for your post, i'm sure many of us will benefit from what you have said. It sounds like your luck with the AVX was even worse than mine lol! I'm glad you finally managed to get it sorted and thanks for sharing that with us.

Both yourself and RayD have given solid and clear guidance regarding which type of power source to use and I will certainly stick with my LiFePO4 DC battery. I know many people are using AC and haven't had any issues so I hope that continues to be the case for you guys.

My AVX first showed "Boat Loader Error 0002" which was the same as I had had with the Advanced GT CG5 but after re-flashing the HC it then went to Error 16 and Error 17 same as you Sonny. I can only assume there must have been some other major failure? as it was on a fully charged lithium battery when that happened. 

 

My new AVX mount head should be here tomorrow so first thing i'll do is power it up and see if it works! I don't know whether it will be a generation II model?

[SonnyE]

Hi Nuka,

In my professional experience (I'm retired. I was tired yesterday, and I'm retired today), often there is a smallish Diode used as the first point for the incoming power. That diode will usually fail before other more costly components, but not always. So no power to the motor drive board gets the Error 16, and 17 codes.

By sacrificing the diode, the design engineers can save the smoke coming out of the rest of the drive. If other things check out OK, then replacing the weak links fixes the chain.

My fix was to avoid any odd-ball currents or harmonics having access to the (apparently) sensitive components the Chinese used. Celestron use to be manufactured in Japan. Japan has long been a world leader in electronics. I found out back in the 1970's why Sony, for one, was so reliable. They used industrial grade components in their consumer grade products. 

I do not believe the Quality Control got put on the ship when the Celestron Factory moved. That, or Mr. Ying decided his Brother-In-Law's Factory, Mr. Yang Electronics Parts would be as good as the OEM Specified components. They are not. Celestron is taking the damage to their name for having moved their operations. If you read the fine print in the Celestron warranty you will find they legally do not have to refund your money. (Or so it is where I live) So once the purchase is made, you have no other recourse than to play their return game. I think the bad boards go back to their main factory to Ms. Sum Ting Wong. But I don't know that for sure....

Since using a battery, which is Pure Direct Current power as a source, I know everything about my particular mount has improved. And I've been happily fine tuning my skills zooming around the night skies. Type of battery is, of course, up to the consumer. My particular battery can run my mount and CCD cooling for a full weekend, and then start my V-8 powered truck to get me home from the desert. Yes, it is big and heavy at 56 pounds of weight, but I don't mind as long as it does the job I have for it.

But any confidence, or desire to do any repeat business with the Celestron name has been shattered. And I have learned that the Orion Brand is under the same parent company.

To be brutally honest.

[Nuka]

Ah! That makes a lot of sense, especially what you are saying about the shift from quality Japanese circuitry to Chinese. I have to say, we can all be pretty confident that the electronics are something they have taken a risk with . The mount, otherwise is very well designed, solid and well built.

Also what your saying about the harmonic distortions in AC mains, means although it might be ok for some, others will definitely experience problems with the mount. Battery and DC is the order of the day in that case.

56 lbs Battery Sonny, wow that's a beast! but good on you. If it works well for what you need why not. I had to go for lightweight because i often have to trek a bit with the gear. It powers my heated motorcycle vest as well but it's only 12 AH so that's its limit really.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences with us Sonny, it's been very useful information and I'm glad i'm not alone in feeling frustrated by Celestron Mounts. I mean if it's a cheap tripod, you throw it away and move on but these mounts are expensive and I expect them to be fit for purpose. I'm glad I dint spend 1500 + and this happen lol    

[Nuka]

AVX #UPDATE_2# Replacement is Here 

I will try not to get too excited!
 

21 hours ago, SonnyE said:

They replaced it with a Generation II model. Gen II has the dec cord modified to an 8 pin cord (tell-tale Gen identifier).

The first thing I noticed is the DEC cable! It is definitely thicker and it fits the socket flush on each side of the connector head (Hopefully you can all see this in the picture). This must be a Generation II model as Sonny was saying. Does anyone have the thinner cable on a fairly recent AVX? (there should be a small gap between the socket and cable head - 6 pin) 

My first AVX definitely did not have this thicker cable, This is most interesting no?!!

 

[RayD]

11 minutes ago, Nuka said:

Also what your saying about the harmonic distortions in AC mains, means although it might be ok for some, others will definitely experience problems with the mount. Battery and DC is the order of the day in that case.

 

Harmonics is only an issue if you use a non linear power supply.  If you use a decent linear regulated power supply you should have no power issues, or certainly not ones related to harmonic distortion on the AC supply.  

[Nuka]

Just now, RayD said:

Harmonics is only an issue if you use a non linear power supply.  If you use a decent linear regulated power supply you should have no power issues, or certainly not ones related to harmonic distortion on the AC supply.  

Ah I see. Thanks for the update Ray. So this must be why most mains users are not having any issues?

[RayD]

Good start.  Fingers crossed Nuka 

[Nuka]

ty very much! Hopefully my woes are over lol

 

[RayD]

14 minutes ago, Nuka said:

Ah I see. Thanks for the update Ray. So this must be why most mains users are not having any issues?

Yes it also depends how clean your incoming AC supply is also.  You can have a very good incoming AC on a cheap non linear power supply, and it could work very well.  Conversely you could have the same power supply and live next door to several factories with heavy equipment causing significant power harmonics, and have very different results. Power harmonics on mains supplies are quite well regulated now though, so it isn't normally the cause of power issues, but is certainly not unheard of.

The solution really is a decent regulated power supply or batteries (if it's a portable outfit), but of course batteries will always provide the cleanest possible supply, but are not necessarily the best solution in a fixed observatory, where you would naturally want a permanent power supply.

As I've said before the Nevada ones that FLO sell are actually really good value for money.  I have one and I can't fault it at that price.

[SonnyE]

A couple of more things for this thread... Looks to be a Gen II head. It isn't the Razzel-Dazzel you might have hoped for. They did this change so people couldn't plug the cords in the wrong holes. That was their first "fix" for the failing motor control boards. Humm, didn't work.

Also, one of the first questions was "What are you using for a power source?" I was using the Celestron Branded, approved AC supply specifically for the AVX. If their own specified AC/DC power supply is deficient, and using a car battery is too big (their reasoning is a cars 12 volt supply is too erratic), and the warranty states using other than a Celestron Brand power source can void your warranty, well, kinda screwed.

The 56 pound battery is something I had. Here is a LINK. I'm in error, it weights 54 pounds. Anyway, my idea is it can run for days and still work fine. Since I'm a retired fart, I tend to go places I can drive, park, and enjoy myself. I find the sky pretty much the same in my back yard, as I do up on a mountain 14 miles away. Only the light pollution is less on the mountain.

First, something that took me from Zero to Hero with my AVX, Getting PHD2 set up was... challenging. I found a couple of great YouTube presentations that got me squared away in a couple of days. Part 1 is 34 minutes, Part 2 is ~ 21 minutes. How I used them was to play them on my desktop, while I set-up the Laptop. Pausing the video when doing settings.

PHD Basics Part #1

PHD Basics Part #2

And then getting my Laptop squared away to run my mount. Teamviewer worked great, transferred images from outside to inside via WiFi, and let me control my mount. Where it got sideways of me was the nag screen, and restarting it. So... I found a different remote control program called TightVnc. It gives me control, works great, too; but doesn't transfer pictures. So I found putting a portable drive out in my USB hub works fine (Also called a 'Thumb Drive', or USB Flash Drives) Besides, if the pictures are too terrible I can dispose of the evidence quickly.

Not sure I can or will ever upgrade my mount. So I'm happily working with what I chose.

Edit in: I have 7 Friends now who have owned AVX mounts. You are #7. Of those 7 AVX mounts, 4 have had this same failure. Not a very good track record.

[Nuka]

Cheers for the links to PHD. I'll defo check it out. I'm not guiding at the moment just seeing what i can do with unguided shots. I used to use my laptop etc... but i want a grab and go setup now because LP here is terrible lol.

14 hours ago, SonnyE said:

A couple of more things for this thread... Looks to be a Gen II head. It isn't the Razzel-Dazzel you might have hoped for. They did this change so people couldn't plug the cords in the wrong holes.

This makes a lot of sense. The other cable i had came with a RED sticker saying don't plug into the AUX or HC ports lol! With this thicker one its too big so it's idiot proof. Thankfully though I'm not an idiot and there was no danger of that anyway lolz 

[Nuka]

AVX #UPDATE_3# Replacement is being tested! 

Slewing just fine (usual noise on 9) but seems smooth in both axes. Have powered it up a couple of times and so far seeing the very welcome - "Adavnced VX" at the top of the screen!

Tonight is set to be fairly clear up here in Manchester so i'll get an alignment done and test it out. I have noticed an electronic sound  coming from the DEC motor housing. It's a cross between an old Printer sound and an 80's Arcade game like Pac Man lol! Not terribly loud but certainly noticeable.

Anyone have similar harmonic/electronic sounds on their AVX? I'm not confusing it with the normal very quiet 'tracking sound' or the motors/gears. It sounds like a PCB noise from some component lol

[RayD]

They are noisy anyway. You may find its just the motor controller doing its thing. Keep eye on it but I wouldn't be alarmed, they do make all manner of funny noises. 

First power on is promising though