First scope and EP's

[Bob Howard]

Hi All,

In the near future, after much planning, researching and general geeking, I'm planning on buying the Skywatcher Skyliner 150P Dobsonian from FLO.
It comes with a 10mm and 25mm EP so I was wondering what you would recommend for a few more.

I've had a look at Warthog's stickied guide and cross-referenced it with the Skywatcher Plossl's on FLO and came up with the following:

f/7.84

high              - 5.88        - 6.3 mm plossl
med-high       - 9.80        - 10 mm supplied with scope
med-low        - 15.68       - 17 mm plossl
low               - 23.52       - 25 mm supplied with scope

I'm also looking at getting the Celestron 2x Barlow and a moon filter to round it all out.

Does that sound like a good range of EP's and accessories go for?  Are the Skywatcher Plossl's a good brand?

Many thanks in advance for any help :-)

[Floater]

Hi, Bob. I have one of those scopes and I think you'll enjoy it. I found, and it seems to be generally accepted, that the 10mm EP is the inferior of the two supplied with the scope. The 25mm provides a better experience.

Just a couple of words of caution:

First, it might be best to take your time and use the supplied EPs for a while, learning what the scope can do and, since it's your first, all the other things that go with amateur stargazing. Then you will have a better idea where you want to with the hobby. Different eyepieces suit different aspects, i.e. deep sky, planetary, etc. Believe me, I know your enthusiasm is pushing you to get everything now and not a minute to waste. But the stars are not going to go away and you will find out that patience is a requirement of the hobby - whether you like it or not.

Second, be careful when asking advice about 'which eyepiece?' on SGL. There is a myriad of choices involving budget, eye relief, weight and lots of other nuances. And the Loungers enjoy spending other people's dosh!

Apart from the above, I hope you have as much fun as I have (and do) with the hobby. You will be frustrated, impatient and thwarted by the elements, light pollution and loads of apparent drawbacks. As long as you realise that, take a step back then go at it again, you'll be fine.

Keep us posted about your progress on the journey.

Clear Skies!

[Timebandit]

11 minutes ago, Floater said:

Hi, Bob. I have one of those scopes and I think you'll enjoy it. I found, and it seems to be generally accepted, that the 10mm EP is the inferior of the two supplied with the scope. The 25mm provides a better experience.

Just a couple of words of caution:

First, it might be best to take your time and use the supplied EPs for a while, learning what the scope can do and, since it's your first, all the other things that go with amateur stargazing. Then you will have a better idea where you want to with the hobby. Different eyepieces suit different aspects, i.e. deep sky, planetary, etc. Believe me, I know your enthusiasm is pushing you to get everything now and not a minute to waste. But the stars are not going to go away and you will find out that patience is a requirement of the hobby - whether you like it or not.

Second, be careful when asking advice about 'which eyepiece?' on SGL. There is a myriad of choices involving budget, eye relief, weight and lots of other nuances. And the Loungers enjoy spending other people's dosh!

Apart from the above, I hope you have as much fun as I have (and do) with the hobby. You will be frustrated, impatient and thwarted by the elements, light pollution and loads of apparent drawbacks. As long as you realise that, take a step back then go at it again, you'll be fine.

Keep us posted about your progress on the journey.

Clear Skies!

Hello Bob. I think Gordon warning about posting questions about eyepieces ect is a bit Over the top. At the end of the day members will give their advice not because they want you to spend money but through use and experience what they believe will be good for you. Some have different opinions yes but I believe the members intentions are good, but unfortunately quality always costs. 

Just because it is suggested on a post does not mean you have to buy it. But you do seem to get what you pay for and this hobby is similar.

I will tell you what eyepieces i started off with and it was a televue plossl. Great quality and will work well down to f4. Eyerelief is a bit tight and field of view around 50d but a quality item. Have a look at used ones as they do come up. 

If you want something with wider field of view around 82d and more eye relief and still quality views the skywatcher Nirvana seem to have a respected following

If you want to spend more money then the televue Naglers are great but unfortunately have gone to very high prices recently.

As for magnification, as you have a 10 and 25mm at the moment. I would go for something in around the 8mm range good for planetary and lunar, and  will probably get a lot of use for these as when you go to high magnification then seeing conditions must be very good to allow this. I would also consider maybe something around the 20mm in wide field which will be good for location of DSO

I hope the above helps and we are good chaps and ladies on this site who will try and help☺

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

Hello Bob. I think Gordon warning about posting questions about eyepieces ect is a bit Over the top. At the end of the day members will give their advice not because they want you to spend money but through use and experience what they believe will be good for you. Some have different opinions yes but I believe the members intentions are good, but unfortunately quality always costs. 

Just because it is suggested on a post does not mean you have to buy it. But you do seem to get what you pay for and this hobby is similar.

I will tell you what eyepieces i started off with and it was a televue plossl. Great quality and will work well down to f4. Eyerelief is a bit tight and field of view around 50d but a quality item. Have a look at used ones as they do come up. 

If you want something with wider field of view around 82d and more eye relief and still quality views the skywatcher Nirvana seem to have a respected following

If you want to spend more money then the televue Naglers are great but unfortunately have gone to very high prices recently.

As for magnification, as you have a 10 and 25mm at the moment. I would go for something in around the 8mm range good for planetary and lunar, and  will probably get a lot of use for these as when you go to high magnification then seeing conditions must be very good to allow this. I would also consider maybe something around the 20mm in wide field which will be good for location of DSO

I hope the above helps and we are good chaps and ladies on this site who will try and help☺

Good advice, but I think you have mis-interpreted Gordon's 'warning' which was meant in a genuine way.

Of course all SGL members give advice which is well intentioned, that goes without saying, but there is also the truth that if you ask 100 astronomers about eyepieces, you will get 200 different opinions  EDIT I don't always agree with myself!!

The trouble is, you can be a little overwhelmed by the advice so I do think it wise to spend a little time getting used to things before diving in.

[CraigT82]

Hi Bob, That's a fine first choice of telescope and one that most people on here recommend to those who come on the site asking for 'first-scope' advice.  A 6" f8 (ish) newtonian is a powerful tool and will show you a heck of a lot. I own two skywatcher newtonians and I can vouch for the mirror quality... these Chinese mass produced mirrors are really rather good (although as with anything mass produced, dud ones can get through).

When it comes to eyepieces, it might help the choice if you knew what type of observing you'll be mostly doing.  For example I primarily observe the planets and the moon, as I live in a very light polluted area and I don't get to darker skies very often. Consequently I've spent a good amount of cash on 'planetary' eyepieces and not so much on wide field/DSO eyepieces.  

If you're blessed with dark skies you might find yourself hunting nebula and faint fuzzies more than anything, in which case you may be better of with a couple of good medium to long FL units and maybe just one decent high power EP for the times you want to study Jupiter et al.

This is why the usual advice is to get out there with the standard supplied EPs and use them for a couple of months, this will give you a good idea of what type of observing really floats your boat and thus where your cash should go.

However if you really feel the need to splash some cash now, I think the skywatcher plossls will be fine to tide you over. They're really not bad eyepieces at all, especially for the money.   Your scope, at nigh-on f8, will be quite forgiving on cheaper eyepieces so when you eventually go for widefield eyepieces you wont go far wrong with the budget skywatcher 2" units (Panaview & Aero ED)

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, Bob Howard said:

high              - 5.88        - 6.3 mm plossl

med-high       - 9.80        - 10 mm supplied with scope
med-low        - 15.68       - 17 mm plossl
low               - 23.52       - 25 mm supplied with scope

 

Since that scope comes with a 2" focuser, I would recommend getting a 38mm to 40mm 70 degree widefield eyepiece as your lowest power eyepiece.  It will show far more sky than that 25mm and help you locate objects more easily.  There are lots of choices out there in this range.  At the lower price points you'll get more edge of field astigmatism but lighter weight.  At the higher price points, you'll get excellent correction to the edge but with a much heavier eyepiece.  Starting out, you probably won't notice edge of field astigmatism all that much because you don't have a frame of reference for what's possible in eyepiece correction.

How about throwing out some budget numbers to help narrow down your choices?

[Bob Howard]

Hi All!

Thanks for the advice so far!

I guess I am rushing in a bit.  Diving in with both feet, as it were!    But!  Oooooh!  The excitement!

To start, I'm planning on a lot of planetary observation from my balcony, but my fiancee has a hankering to go after the Messier objects (me too!) so it'll be a bit of both.  I "think" there are a few decent sites a short drive from Ludlow that we'll get dark enough skies to be able to see them.

18 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Since that scope comes with a 2" focuser

 Just had to go and check!  Oops!  Didn't read it right and though it had a 1.25" so I've been looking with that in mind!  Oh well!  Thank you Loius for pointing that one out!  

Budget-wise, I can afford around £50 a month to buy bits, before getting the scope for the missus in December.

 

In the mean-time, I'm currently shopping around for a cheap pair of 10x50 bins.  I've got a cheap photo tripod I was using as a high-gain wifi antenna mount I can re-purpose to get a bit of stability with them.

[ronin]

I differ in what I tend to suggest. Wartog went for 4, Agreed 4 will do but 5 may be better, OK I collect eyepieces almost just for the hell of it. Only have about 40-50 and I gave 10 or 12 away.

I go down this line of thought.

One eyepiece at the f number of the scope, so in your case 8mm.

One a bit shorter and one a bit longer so 6mm and 10mm.

One medium say 20mm, maybe 18mm, could I suppose count 15mm in. This one covers a few options.

One low and wide so 30mm or 32mm.

Which makes 5. Thought process is that the 8mm should be OK most of the time, the 6mm for that bit extra, 10mm is for when the 6mm and 8mm don't work (bad conditions) or maybe a globular that will just fit in., 15/18/20mm general purpose, 30/32mm finding things and wide field.

All are just suggestions, I just went and collected al lthe BST's at 2 a month, cost less when I did it however. As the 5mm to 8mm is a fair jump I bought an Altair 6mm and these 7 are what I use the most.

[CraigT82]

24 minutes ago, Bob Howard said:

To start, I'm planning on a lot of planetary observation from my balcony, but my fiancee has a hankering to go after the Messier objects (me too!) so it'll be a bit of both.  I "think" there are a few decent sites a short drive from Ludlow that we'll get dark enough skies to be able to see them.

With balcony observing (which is what I do) you might need something to stand the scope on to raise it up enough to see over the balcony rail when you're looking at stuff down low in the sky, this will also put the EP at a more comfortable height for observing.  Lot of people use a water butt stand, see this thread for info (it's about the 200p but I believe it uses the same dob mount for the 150p?  Not too sure about that but gives you an idea)

 

 

[bingevader]

47 minutes ago, Bob Howard said:

 Just had to go and check!  Oops!  Didn't read it right and though it had a 1.25" so I've been looking with that in mind!  Oh well!  Thank you Loius for pointing that one out!  

Budget-wise, I can afford around £50 a month to buy bits, before getting the scope for the missus in December.

Your 'scope will take both 2" and 1.25" eyepieces (it has an adapter for the 1.25" eyepieces).

"Budget" is the magic word!

That will narrow Stu's 200 opinions down quite considerably.

At £50 you might want to take a look at the BST eyepieces here.

[Floater]

2 hours ago, Stu said:

... but I think you have mis-interpreted Gordon's 'warning' which was meant in a genuine way.

2 hours ago, Timebandit said:

I think Gordon warning about posting questions about eyepieces ect is a bit Over the top. At the end of the day members will give their advice not because they want you to spend money but through use and experience what they believe will be good for you. Some have different opinions yes but I believe the members intentions are good, but unfortunately quality always costs.

Yes, Timebandit, Stu has it right. My comment was meant to be light-hearted. I have watched some amazing threads about eyepieces and been involved in some. My fault for not making the levity a bit more obviouis with a smiley or two.

But back to the OP - Bob, I applaud the fact that you are researching everything thoroughly. That is not only very worthwhile it is also part of the fun of amateur astronomy. For me it is, anyhow. There are many hugely experienced folks on SGL, providing an almost unbelievable in-depth knowledge bank. Only one of those, but worthy of mention, is Robin Wilkey and he helped me greatly when I asked the same question as you are now asking. Here is a treatise written by him which I'm sure he won't mind my pointing you to: http://www.swindonstargazers.com/beginners/eyepieces.htm. Reading it will add to your knowledge and help keep up your 'geeky' points.

Now I shall watch as your head gets fried with info and you are tempted to spend a small fortune. After all we're not doing it out of badness - because as every amateur astronomer knows, eyepieces are 'investments'. Of course they are!

Bob, I repeat, have fun.

[Floater]

Just picked up on something written earlier, Bob. Your scope does take 1.25" EPs. There is an adapter, allowing you to use both 1.25" or 2".

Forgive if you knew that already. Just some ambiguity I thought I'd found.

?? ?

Edit: Oops! Sorry, Ben. Missed your post.

[iPeace]

Must agree with Mr. Floater. Use what you've got to find out what you need. Do the reading. Relax and take it as it comes.

Have fun.

[Putaendo Patrick]

One possible start to the pleasures of parting with hard-earned cash for small pieces of exotic glass might be an 8 to 24mm zoom eyepiece and x2 Barlow.

Another member here, John, recently recommended a very inexpensive zoom which may in fact be a re-brand of other slightly more expensive versions of the same EP:

 

Currently I reckon this one is rather a bargain for those who wish to have / try a zoom without spending too much - I reckon it's just the same item that is sold under Seben, Skywatcher and Celestron branding and it's the 8-24mm rather than the, as has been pointed out, rather poorer 7-21mm type:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-24mm-Zoom-Eyepiece-31-7-mm-Focal-Length-Fully-multi-coated-for-1-25-Telescope-/262557256107

Don't ask me where the "Vite" branding comes from but many astronomy items are made in the same place and sold under different brandings and for widely varying prices - very confusing !

I've used these at outreach star parties and they perform rather well and are also convenient and comfortable for those who have not used a scope before. For £30 delivered what more can you ask ?

Although fixed eyepieces would be better quality in the longer term, this combination might enable you in the short term to determine which magnifications would be most suitable for your needs before possibly spending more money.

Just a thought

[Bob Howard]

Hi All,

Many thanks for all the replies and information given.  I have a lot to think about now!

20 hours ago, CraigT82 said:

 Lot of people use a water butt stand, see this thread for info (it's about the 200p but I believe it uses the same dob mount for the 150p?  Not too sure about that but gives you an idea)

 

 

Craig, that thread has given me some good ideas for modding my mount and adding a water butt stand.  All good stuff!

 

19 hours ago, Floater said:

. Only one of those, but worthy of mention, is Robin Wilkey and he helped me greatly when I asked the same question as you are now asking. Here is a treatise written by him which I'm sure he won't mind my pointing you to: http://www.swindonstargazers.com/beginners/eyepieces.htm. Reading it will add to your knowledge and help keep up your 'geeky' points.

 

Floater, I had a read through Robin's treaties and it was a lot of very good and well explained information.  Lot's of help in there to aid me in making some decisions.

The 2" Baader Hyperion and Sky Watcher PanaView EP's are so very tempting!

 

14 hours ago, Putaendo Patrick said:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-24mm-Zoom-Eyepiece-31-7-mm-Focal-Length-Fully-multi-coated-for-1-25-Telescope-/262557256107

 

Patrick, the zoom EP looks really good.  I hadn't previously thought about getting a zoom, just different EP's in fixed lengths.  I've had a look around on some other forums and peeps there are pretty sure it's a re-branded Celestron 8-24 mm EP.

It's had some pretty positive reviews that I've found and they say it seems to work well with a barlow too!

 

As I said, thank you all for giving me soooooo much new stuff to think about.  Now I just need to figure out how I can pay for all the shiny things I need want to buy 

[Timebandit]

15 minutes ago, Bob Howard said:

Hi All,

Many thanks for all the replies and information given.  I have a lot to think about now!

Craig, that thread has given me some good ideas for modding my mount and adding a water butt stand.  All good stuff!

 

Floater, I had a read through Robin's treaties and it was a lot of very good and well explained information.  Lot's of help in there to aid me in making some decisions.

The 2" Baader Hyperion and Sky Watcher PanaView EP's are so very tempting!

 

Patrick, the zoom EP looks really good.  I hadn't previously thought about getting a zoom, just different EP's in fixed lengths.  I've had a look around on some other forums and peeps there are pretty sure it's a re-branded Celestron 8-24 mm EP.

It's had some pretty positive reviews that I've found and they say it seems to work well with a barlow too!

 

As I said, thank you all for giving me soooooo much new stuff to think about.  Now I just need to figure out how I can pay for all the shiny things I need want to buy 

 

Hello Bob ,yes lots to think about and digest for a newbie, we all had to start somewhere and getting your head around things takes a while but also half the fun?

I think the general best way forwards is to get your scope, my mistake I mean your wife'scope☺. Then it will take a number of sessions to get the hang of location and tracking with the Dob(but easy enough really when you get into the swing of things). Get the hang of focus and which included eyepieces you like and what you think you need to give you an added or different magnification to enable you to take your seeing to a new or different level. Then purchase an eyepiece now and again over the months to match you interest maybe planetary or DSO . You don't have to rush out and buy everything at once as many of the chaps and ladies on here have built there kit level up over many years and therefore that is why we come up with so many different and interesting ideas to put into your court for consideration.

In the meantime until your/wife scope arrives then down load stellarium and have a look up at the in the sky's at night with your mark one eyeballs and start to learn an idea of constellations locations in the sky's (a big help when you get your scope for finding DSO and planetary)

Also I suggest you pick up a book called Turn left at Orion, a useful read for the backyard astronomy and what you can expect to see in a hobbyist scope.

I hope the above helps☺

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, Bob Howard said:

Craig, that thread has given me some good ideas for modding my mount and adding a water butt stand.

I thought I had heard all things unique to British English until I read this one.  I guessed from the usage it was some sort of water bucket.  Apparently, it's what an American would call a rain barrel or cistern.  I'd love to know the etymology of water butt.  Anyone know?

[Bob Howard]

2 hours ago, Timebandit said:

You don't have to rush out and buy everything at once

Aaaaw!  Where's the fun in that! 

I downloaded Stellarium last night but only got to have a quick 5 min look around.  going to be delving in to configure it and have a bit of fun with it tonight.

I have a PDF of Turn left at Orion but it's not a very good copy.  A print version is high on the (ever growing!) to-buy list.

 

9 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I thought I had heard all things unique to British English until I read this one.  I guessed from the usage it was some sort of water bucket.  Apparently, it's what an American would call a rain barrel or cistern.  I'd love to know the etymology of water butt.  Anyone know?

It's from old English Brewery Cask unit sizes.

The butt of beer was equal to half a tun, two hogsheads, three barrels or 108 imperial gallons (491.0 l).

So a butt-load of something is a real thing!  

[Floater]

On 16 August 2016 at 14:01, Floater said:

First, it might be best to take your time and use the supplied EPs for a while, learning what the scope can do and, since it's your first, all the other things that go with amateur stargazing. Then you will have a better idea where you want to with the hobby. Different eyepieces suit different aspects, i.e. deep sky, planetary, etc.

 

6 hours ago, Timebandit said:

I think the general best way forwards is to get your scope, my mistake I mean your wife'scope☺. Then it will take a number of sessions to get the hang of location and tracking with the Dob(but easy enough really when you get into the swing of things). Get the hang of focus and which included eyepieces you like and what you think you need to give you an added or different magnification to enable you to take your seeing to a new or different level.  ....  You don't have to rush out and buy everything at once ...

Sorry, Timebandit, but I can't resist this ?? !!

 Ain't that just what I said way back?