Filters for visual observing

[jetstream]

4 hours ago, alan potts said:

Hi Derek,

I have the Astonomik's H beta only because I couldn't get the Lumicon who I later found have stop trading. From what I gather there really is little between these two, both being very high quality. I had a good few trys at the HH and was not able to see it from here with the 18 inch. I really wish I had bought the 2 inch which I didn't (cheapskate), this was because i thought a 4mm Exit would give me the best chance, this I can get with the 24mm Panoptic and a 1.25 filter. The 2 inch is very expensive, I was quoted close to 200 pounds and lets face it that's, or was, a De-lite eyepiece.  

I did the same Alan, purchasing an excellent Astronomik 1.25" Hb. I then purchased a 2" Lumicon Hb which so far is under performing, more time needed with it though. I paid big bucks for it too.

Keep at the HH, you will get it. I find a bit bigger FOV helps me out with the 1828 fl dob.

[jetstream]

9 hours ago, Paul73 said:

Blimey Nicos! you must get to some properly dark sites.

This one is on my "OK to obsess about" list for this winter.

Thanks for the succinct Horsey hunting checklist.

My starting kit is 16" Dob, 18mm BCO @5mm exit pupil (I tend to do better with no bright stars for "first sights"), Lumicon Hb filter.

Paul

Off topic- apologies to DRT, but I just wanted to say that Hb's can be very exit pupil sensitive. Paul, is your 16" OOUK f4 ?if so the 18BCO might just be on the wrong side of things at 4.5mm (f4). The Lumis are really tight filters, if you can try a 25mm TV plossl this might help out, many astronomers use this EP for the HH and at 5.5mm exit pupil in your scope should work well.

I prefer to keep bright stars out of the FOV and the best indicator is the Flame and IC 434 of course IMHO.

[John]

3 hours ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

....So to get to Derek's original question - is it worth spending a lot more simply to get a 'named' filter or should the money be better spent on a better eyepiece?

 

Personally I think a whole lot of factors need to come together to crack these targets that are right "at the edge" of what can be seen. We can do something about optical and mechanical quality, we can learn where these targets are located in the sky, we can practice our observing techniques and we can travel to dark sky sites and put the observing hours in but I feel there are other subtle factors that we have to hope come together as well to put that tick in the box of a really challenging and elusive target. Throwing money at the challenge is certainly no guarantee of solving it !

 

 

[Stu]

9 hours ago, jetstream said:

Off topic- apologies to DRT, but I just wanted to say that Hb's can be very exit pupil sensitive. Paul, is your 16" OOUK f4 ?if so the 18BCO might just be on the wrong side of things at 4.5mm (f4). The Lumis are really tight filters, if you can try a 25mm TV plossl this might help out, many astronomers use this EP for the HH and at 5.5mm exit pupil in your scope should work well.

I prefer to keep bright stars out of the FOV and the best indicator is the Flame and IC 434 of course IMHO.

I have a Zeiss 25mm Ortho which we could give a go.  Only issue is that it doesn't take filters so we would have to use it in an extention tube or adaptor. Worth a go though, it's a lovely eyepiece.

I'm sure a lot of this is about sky conditions ie darkness but also transparency. Exit pupil is also key aswell, as evidenced in the Barbara Wilson article.

[jetstream]

21 hours ago, Stu said:

I have a Zeiss 25mm Ortho which we could give a go.  Only issue is that it doesn't take filters so we would have to use it in an extention tube or adaptor. Worth a go though, it's a lovely eyepiece.

I'm sure a lot of this is about sky conditions ie darkness but also transparency. Exit pupil is also key aswell, as evidenced in the Barbara Wilson article.

Totally agree Stu, and the Zeiss 25mm should be perfect.Conditions play a major role, as does exit pupil but one thing that can make or break a filter is transmission...I just might send that Lumi Hb to an astronomer I know with a spectrometer to find out whats what.

I'm thinking your excellent 25mm will do the trick!

[nicoscy]

Every morning now at about 4 am when I take the dog for a walk, Orion is my silent companion along with Cassiopeia.

Horsehead time is right around the corner. Best of luck to everybody who attempting it for the first time!

[Stu]

1 hour ago, jetstream said:

Totally agree Stu, and the Zeiss 25mm should be perfect.Conditions play a major role, as does exit pupil but one thing that can make or break a filter is transmission...I just might send that Lumi Hb to an astronomer I know with a spectrometer to find out whats what.

I'm thinking your excellent 25mm will do the trick!

I'll check the transmission specs on my Hb, I seem to remember they were quoted as being quite high on the packaging. Lumicons are all individually tested.

[estwing]

I used the astronomik UHC to bag this last year in good dark skies near Bala ...I spent at least an hour on it with torch off and hood up...and I agree on spending as much as you can to give yourself every chance to catch these hard targets....but unless you are prepared to travel to dark skies you're simply wasting money  

[swamp thing]

4 hours ago, estwing said:

 unless you are prepared to travel to dark skies you're simply wasting money  

^^^ This

Get your dark sky sorted and then worry about filters. The HH has been seen with and without filters, through various eyepieces and exit pupils, scopes of widely different apertures but is never seen from LP skies. 
Have fun out there.  

[nicoscy]

Aaaaaand Lumicon has a sale on the 1.25" filter. Just got this email:

Now through the end of August, Lumicon is offering 25% off on one it's most popular filters, the 1.25" H-beta filter.

 

Also known as the Horsehead Nebula filter, the Lumicon 1.25" H-beta Filter isolates only the hydrogen-beta line of the spectrum (486nm) in a narrow pass-band just 9 nm wide, providing maximum contrast. Now you can view extremely faint nebulous objects such as the Horsehead, Cocoon and California Nebulae. In many cases, the Lumicon Hydrogen-Beta Filter is the ONLY way to view these objects. Recommended for 8" or larger telescopes.

 

This offer is only available to customers who have made a purchase through our website in the past.

 

To receive your 25% discount, simply Click This Link and then add the item to the shopping cart. Once the filter is in the shopping cart, click on + COUPON CODE and enter the code HBETA2016 to receive 25% off your purchase.

 

The Lumicon Team

www.lumicon.com

 

[jetstream]

Anyone know Lumicons current physical address? Their site only lists a mail box.

[Scooot]

2 hours ago, jetstream said:

Anyone know Lumicons current physical address? Their site only lists a mail box.

Their registered address is 730 E Easy St 93065 SIMI Valley, hope this helps.

I've just received an email offer from them as well, 25% off the 1.25" H Beta filter. For customers that have bought via their website before.

[DRT]

Thanks for the info guys

 

[DRT]

12 hours ago, swamp thing said:

^^^ This

Get your dark sky sorted and then worry about filters. The HH has been seen with and without filters, through various eyepieces and exit pupils, scopes of widely different apertures but is never seen from LP skies. 
Have fun out there.  

Don't laugh too loudly if this is a stupid question.

UHC filters are claimed to greatly enhance brightness and contrast of nebula from light polluted skies. Has anyone attempted double-stacking a UHC (to combat LP) with an H-beta (to reveal the HH)?

[Stu]

14 minutes ago, DRT said:

Don't laugh too loudly if this is a stupid question.

UHC filters are claimed to greatly enhance brightness and contrast of nebula from light polluted skies. Has anyone attempted double-stacking a UHC (to combat LP) with an H-beta (to reveal the HH)?

I think the only result would be a reduced transmission of the Hb line Derek. If both filters have say 96% transmission at this frequency then I don't think there would be a benefit. Never tried it, might be wrong  

[John]

I don't think UHC filters (or others) make anything brighter. The do make nebulae stand out better by blocking unwanted light.

If you stack and UHC and a H-B I think the effective result would be a slightly lower band pass H-B. The UHC would permit H-B plus O-III. The H-B would block the O-III and you would loose a small % of the residual H-B as well.

[DRT]

On 15/08/2016 at 22:44, Stu said:

I have a Lumicon H beta 1.25" which I bought used and have never had the chance to use. You are welcome to use it at SGL12

I managed to pick up an Astronomik 1.25" H-beta from my advert on ABS-UK so we can now do a side by side comparison at SGL-XII

I might try to pick up a SW just so we can do a complete review

 

 

[John]

6 hours ago, DRT said:

I managed to pick up an Astronomik 1.25" H-beta from my advert on ABS-UK so we can now do a side by side comparison at SGL-XII

I might try to pick up a SW just so we can do a complete review

 

 

The 1st challenge is to see anything all with the H-Beta filters to be able to make a comparison !. My intended comparison of the 1000 Oaks and Lumicon H-B filters was bought up short by not being able to make out anything recognisable through either of them

Hope you have more luck than I did

 

[DRT]

18 minutes ago, John said:

The 1st challenge is to see anything all with the H-Beta filters to be able to make a comparison !. My intended comparison of the 1000 Oaks and Lumicon H-B filters was bought up short by not being able to make out anything recognisable through either of them

Are you trying to tell us that it won't look exactly like this, John...

 

[Dave In Vermont]

The use of UHC as a filter for light-pollution was a selling-point for years over here - mostly by Orion-USA. Their UHC/LP filter was touted for "severely light-polluted skies." This was the premier lure to buy one. But, as many more experienced folks found, it was a top-notch UHC filter for narrowband. Their "Skyglo" filter was for moderate LP - and many other things as became common-knowledge.

As for the HorseHead, or B33, from the myriad reports out there, is as much luck as anything else. But to greatly increase your odds of a 'win' on seeing it - just a cheap webcam can snatch it from your eyeballs' "jaws of defeat." The reasons for this can be argued as indicating that a dark-site will help a great deal. But any type of imaging gear will negate having to "head for the hills."

Best of luck, all,

Dave

[John]

6 hours ago, DRT said:

Are you trying to tell us that it won't look exactly like this, John...

 

My views were almost like that Derek but without any of the nebulosity and the vast majority of the stars. I was looking at the Horsehead though on a number of occasions, I just could not actually see it - a mere technicality I'm sure

I'm almost convinced that the Lumicon HB did a slightly better job of showing me nothing than the 1000 Oaks HB did but it was a close run thing !

The 1000 Oaks filter has a much nicer colour bezel though. 

 

[swamp thing]

25 minutes ago, John said:

My views were almost like that Derek but without any of the nebulosity and the vast majority of the stars. I was looking at the Horsehead though on a number of occasions, I just could not actually see it - a mere technicality I'm sure

I'm almost convinced that the Lumicon HB did a slightly better job of showing me nothing than the 1000 Oaks HB did but it was a close run thing !

The 1000 Oaks filter has a much nicer colour bezel though. 

 

 Now that was a great post  

[Stu]

Here are the transmission specs (or rather here is the transmission spec!) on my Lumicon Hb. 96%.

 

[jetstream]

Here's mine.

Hey! I have an idea! maybe I'll mail this over there for the comparison it might even come close to the SW Hb.

Oh, just be warned the filter threads don't fit most eyepieces, and the ones it does is by about a thread and a half...

 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, jetstream said:

Here's mine.

Hey! I have an idea! maybe I'll mail this over there for the comparison it might even come close to the SW Hb.

Oh, just be warned the filter threads don't fit most eyepieces, and the ones it does is by about a thread and a half...

 

On the contrary Gerry, perhaps I should send you mine as you've got WAY more chance of actually seeing anything through it!!