brrttpaul Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I have managed to get hold of some insulated cladding about 3" thick so i can make an obsy, the one side is black the other is white, I know white reflects heat and black absorbs it but would it make much of a difference in the UK, the black (charcoal grey) looks the better colour to have outside but if it compromises the telescope I will have the white outside, would it matter much here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charic Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 If both sides are not reflective, ie matt, I would line the obsy with black facing you, to have a darker interior. If this cladding is the complete wall structure, ie. not just an internal feature, then white outermost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARS1960 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Is the cladding for the inside or the outside? Remember the basic physics lesson that black clothes keep you cooler in the sun than white clothes, you dont want the inside of your obsy getting hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brrttpaul Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 both, its white sheet steel then 3 inch thick insulation then black sheet steel, I got the corner fittings and its cut so all i got to do is drill it together, its quite high spec (fire retardant etc) Um isnt that white clothes keep you cooler in the sun lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charic Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Black keeps you cooler, and a hot shower helps cool sunburn! yet so many folk still take a cold shower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brrttpaul Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 You sure? pretty sure cricketers wear white because its cooler, white reflects the heat black absorbs it, I think you wrong on that TBH. thats what I was always taught anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charic Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, brrttpaul said: white reflects the heat black absorbs it, Which is why black is cooler, it does not radiate your body heat back to your skin! There are many articles on the subject, just search the web. Hard to accept when all along we thought that only white will do? And back inside the Obsy!, their supposed to be dark in there, are they not? so why not alternate the panels if your undecided!.........nah, folk will question that one? I still say black inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brrttpaul Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 I agree black inside without doubt and white outside, think we had our wires crossed end of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charic Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Not necessarily wires crossed ? If you have black outside, it will tone down the Obsy, making it less conspicuous, and to be honest if your construction is light-tight, then it makes no difference what colour it is inside until you add any light source, be that red or white, or whatever! Metal cladding, like those in some metal clad sheds can rust, so treat any scratches or cuts, seal the joints, and install a filtered (lady stockings?) light tight air vent, to keep the bugs out, and the Obsy cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralBill Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 56 minutes ago, Charic said: Black keeps you cooler, and a hot shower helps cool sunburn! yet so many folk still take a cold shower? You got that wrong I am afraid, black keeps you warmer, everybody knows that....... always wear lighter colours in the sun.... That is why cricketers wear white..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charic Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Clothing, especially black, absorbs sunlight, and if thick enough, loosely-fitted with some wind blowing past you, the absorbed heat will be convected away faster than it is absorbed! Your right, white clothing does indeed reflect sunlight, its true, we all know this, but most folk forget or don't understand the basic physics, that white clothing also reflects your body heat, sending it back towards your body, so the net effect under identical conditions will be less cooling than if you were to wear black. Many desert-dwelling folk wear loose-fitting dark clothing, and have been doing so for ages, for this very reason, surely from their own experience, they can't all be wrong? Cricketers wear white as was the assumption back in the 18th century that its the best colour to reflect heat on a hot summers day, but as cricket was also known as the 'Gentlemans' game, they had to be smart and tidy, so what better, but awkward colour to choose , for rolling around on the grass ? But I think its the norm now, to play in your white flannels, during test cricket, and a more colorful club attire for 1 Day Internationals and the like. Like I said earlier, there is much more theory and information on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralBill Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Black clothes absorb heat, yes, and then as it is next to your skin it keeps you very warm, as it is extra heat over and above your own generated body heat, (excess heat getting in) so you get too hot, as the material acts as a heater, if you wear white clothes, the heat from outside stays outside, as it is reflected, and the heat from inside ( your body heat) stays stays inside, so you stay at your normal body heat temp, and there is no excess heat getting in.... So you stay at normal temp, which is a lot less than wearing black, so white clothes don't cool you down, you stay the same, but black clothes certainly make you hotter....Simples... Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brrttpaul Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 I honestly cant believe this has come back to haunt me, when I was in school (40yrs ago) when my science teacher said the best colour for radiators was black as the heat from inside would be released far better, I think we also had a box which was different colours from white to black and the temperature was higher on the dark side. Trying to convimce my parents to paint my bedroom rad black didnt go down to well with them lol. . Im doing it white outside and black inside thats it, only reason i asked was the wife would prefer the black outside as it wouldnt stand out so much lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charic Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 1 hour ago, brrttpaul said: black outside as it wouldnt stand out so much lol .......I sometimes believe our partners think that ANYTHING new in the garden "shouldn't be there, its an eye-sore, and stands out like a sore thumb!" Until they get used to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARS1960 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 1 hour ago, brrttpaul said: I honestly cant believe this has come back to haunt me, when I was in school (40yrs ago) when my science teacher said the best colour for radiators was black as the heat from inside would be released far better, I think we also had a box which was different colours from white to black and the temperature was higher on the dark side. Trying to convimce my parents to paint my bedroom rad black didnt go down to well with them lol. . Im doing it white outside and black inside thats it, only reason i asked was the wife would prefer the black outside as it wouldnt stand out so much lol I honestly wish i had never posted . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charic Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 ...........all part of the fun and being a member of a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey-T Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I remember that experiment from school but can't remember the conclusion, black bodies radiate more heat but don't know if they reflect more heat, if it's heat we're talking about not light. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laudropb Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I think that talking about the colour of clothing just confuses the issue. Go to hot countries in the Med. what colour are the buildings ? Have you ever seen a black dome on a professional Obsy ? I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charic Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Royal Observatory London was Black domed back in 2010, but the OP has already decided on the fate of their Observatory now, so any further debate of 'Black over White' should really continue in a new thread, if there's still the need? Knowledge is available on the internet, its how its interpreted, but it looks like we will have to agree to disagree for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverAstro Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, Charic said: Royal Observatory London was Black domed back in 2010, if there's still the need? Or desire ! Was any astronomy done from there in 2010 ? The Tuareg in the sahara seem to wear both white and black turbans, so if they cant decide I'm sure we cant trust the average English batsman to be the arbiter of best togs The Tuareg women seem to be mostly in black, so perhaps they are the wise ones, what was the question Is it cloudy again ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheeler Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Don't forget that this business of white reflecting and black absorbing (true statement) applies only to radiated heat (not conducted or convected) i.e. sunlight if you're outdoors. If you're building in a shaded area it's no big deal which way round you have it as far as temperature is concerned. p.s. A bit of a silly statement as ideally you would normally build an observatory clear of all obstructions that are likely to give shade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARS1960 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, freewheeler said: Don't forget that this business of white reflecting and black absorbing (true statement) applies to radiated heat i.e. sunlight if you're outdoors. If you're building in a shaded area it's no big deal which way round you have it as far as temperature is concerned. I concur, but if it's only a partly shaded (AM) area, would the internal space be hotter at sunset if the cladding was applied with black side outside or inside? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis D Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 So, we need clothing that is white on the outside and black on the inside to get optimal summer cooling? I know that many places cover their black tar building roofs with lighter materials to help reject solar heat gain. They even put reflective radiant barriers under the roofing material to aid in this. Sounds like a niche clothing opportunity for someone to exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheeler Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 8 hours ago, MARS1960 said: I concur, but if it's only a partly shaded (AM) area, would the internal space be hotter at sunset if the cladding was applied with black side outside or inside? . In theory, with black on the outside, it should be warmer on the inside after a day in the sun. In practice it probably doesn't matter. The proposed building is unlike glass, as in a greenhouse or conservatory where the sun's radiation passes through immediately, is trapped inside and builds up alarmingly. In the proposed building only the outer sheet of steel gets hot, hotter if it's black and less hot if it's white. However that is as far as the radiation gets. from then on it's conduction, slowed down enormously by the choice of insulating material and the fact that conduction is slowed down noticeably when being transferred from one surface to another, both leaving and entering. so as well as the insulation you have "leaving, entering, leaving, entering, leaving" factors slowing down the rate of heat transfer through the building's walls. Meanwhile on the outside breezes are probably removing heat and virtually negating any real difference between black and white. So, just in the case of a building of your construction, I don't think you would notice any difference whichever way round you had the walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Drew Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Try it and see, you can always reverse paint the colours (SWMBO permitting!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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