Petition to regulate light pollution

[Physopto]

Just hit 8,930. off to bed as up early. Be hard to sleep tonight.

 

[psamathe]

46 minutes ago, Physopto said:

That may be the case but looking at the map the figures look OK for each area. There are no areas that look ridiculously high!

If it is a hacker attack and it is proven we will at least get publicity and a damn sight more than at present.

Derek

The figures on the map will look OK because the hackers are not operating through a single site.  e.g. as I mentioned above, they are coming in from all over the place.  Does the map show how many people have signed the Light Pollution petition from e.g. Vatican City or North Korea, etc.  They are somewhat more sophisticated than somebody sitting at home registered and doing it on their single BT issues IP address.  They know the basis the government uses and distribute signatures appropriately (whilst I strongly disagree with their actions and don't want to be interpreted as praising them in any way, they are pretty technically smart people).

A hacker attack on the Light Pollution Petition will unfortunately not generate any publicity as the petition that started it has over 4,000,000 signatures and is very newsworthy.  Plus, if it's more than one petition the current high profile one will get any coverage in the Press (particularly given the subject), plus Light Pollution will not be the only one so affected.

Does anybody seriously think that a single tweet from Aurora watch is generating a new signature every 10 seconds at midnight from the UK and on a sustained basis (e.g. 220 signatures in the last 40 mins) ?  And at a time when the a couple of days ago hackers established a way to automate signatures and thus completely mess-up a government web site.

It is a fair amount of work to remove the fraudulent signatures and they are probably far more focused on the really biggy one (the over 4m signatures) which is of significant importance to the UK so I suspect they might ignore the Light Pollution one and respond on the basis of a fraudulent result (i.e. decision/response based on <x> signatures which is suspect ...).  Difficult to judge.

Sorry to sound negative, but better to be realistic.

Ian

[Galactic Wanderer]

Hit the 9,000 mark

 

[caracol_uk]

The location on the map is not obtained from the IP address. It is obtained from the postcode provided when the petition is signed.

While it does seem unusual, the other factor that makes it more plausible that this is legitimate is that it gradually slowed down around 11pm as people went to bed. 

Simon

[Stub Mandrel]

Now at 9156.

Doesn't seem enough to be an automated attack, but a huge leap in interest. Was it mentioned on TV or radio as well?

 

Just a thought, if some plonker devised an automated voting program,to 'boost' teh referendum petition they have foolishly decided to 'help out' some the petitions.

On the other hand if the Aurora tweet briefly got it on the 'top petitions in the last hour' list that probably drew it to the attention of many more people than all our earlier efforts, so let's hope its a legitimate boost.

 

The distribution looks legitimate - constituencies in urban areas like London and Birmingham still have relatively few signatures. They ironically have fewer astronomers because of the LP!

[caracol_uk]

I must admit that when I first saw the boost I thought it was a hacker too. However, the start of the boost occurred exactly as the tweet from AurorawatchUK took place. I agree that it feels a bit suspicious, but it is possible it's all legitimate. I really hope it is. It's still going up much quicker than normal this morning and to me that adds credence to it being legitimate. Of all the petitions why would an attacker pick this one, and for an attack I don't think the numbers went up quickly enough. Just my opinion really as we can't know for sure. I for one would be really upset if it were not legitimate because it invalidates all of our hard work.

Simon

 

[Physopto]

I woke up st 4 this morning and it had stopped at 9081 it stayed there for about 15 minutes until I tried to get some more sleep. Now rhis morning it has speeded up again first check 9265 a minute or so later 9267. Now a bout 5 minutes more at 0809 it is 9283 signatures. 

I am convinced it is from the Aurora  tweet. This is tremendous news.  Just over 700 to go in 23 days gives roughly 35 or so per day at present to get. Looks like the Fat lady is waiting !

 

Derek

 

[Linda]

I am really sorry for you guys that we who live in other countries cannot contribute to this. But as mentioned somewhere above, a signature from an other country would not be considered relevant for the UK.

[Aaron F Johnson]

We have a light pollution ordinance in our little township USA but folks violate it far and wide, I could go on a policing drive collecting addresses but that did not work the last time I did it...lol...if you brits are lucky and hard working enough to pass such a light pollution law you will need even more luck and great effort enforcing it. Dark Sites/Clear Nights 

[psamathe]

3 hours ago, caracol_uk said:

The location on the map is not obtained from the IP address. It is obtained from the postcode provided when the petition is signed.

While it does seem unusual, the other factor that makes it more plausible that this is legitimate is that it gradually slowed down around 11pm as people went to bed. 

Simon

Hackers are using lists of postcodes.  They are not daft and it is a very very easy system to submit false signatures to.

Whilst I would love it to be the case, does anybody seriously think a single tweet would create that rate of signatures from the UK overnight ?  And at a time when other petitions are also recognised to be under fraudulent attack.  and that "interest" in the petition started around the same time as other petitions were fraudulently attacked ?

And one Tweet when direct e-mail from astro clubs to their members had only a small effect.

Ian

[psamathe]

1 hour ago, Linda said:

I am really sorry for you guys that we who live in other countries cannot contribute to this. But as mentioned somewhere above, a signature from an other country would not be considered relevant for the UK.

That has not stopped others.  There are signatures from Belgium, Congo, Chile, Denmark, Hong Kong, Kazakhstan, etc., etc. already included in the total.

Ian

[mapstar]

6 minutes ago, psamathe said:

Whilst I would love it to be the case, does anybody seriously think a single tweet would create that rate of signatures

Ian

Maybe its not from twitter, could be from an email sent out by someone with lots of connections in this field who can't be seen to get involved.

Be disappointing if it is hackers but looking at the areas they must be looking at the light pollution maps to target areas which are low in said blight.

[psamathe]

Just now, mapstar said:

Maybe its not from twitter, could be from an email sent out by someone with lots of connections in this field who can't be seen to get involved.

Be disappointing if it is hackers but looking at the areas they must be looking at the light pollution maps to target areas which are low in said blight.

We will probably never know.  As I said, one significant petition under attack is of far far far greater concern to the site operators/government at the moment (it has over 4,000,000 signatures and still increasing fast despite the removal of so many interpreted as fraudulent.  I doubt they will have the resource to concern themselves with anything that is short of the "potential debate in Parliament" threshold right now.

Ian

[mapstar]

23 minutes ago, psamathe said:

We will probably never know.  As I said, one petition under attack is of far far far greater concern to the site operators/government at the moment 

Ian

Lets keep the thread to just this petition without mentioning details of others. Point taken about potential fraudulent signatures we shall keep our fingers crossed

[caracol_uk]

Personally I do think it's legitimate and a result of the tweet from last night. Given all the hard work that has been put in by many of us it's a shame that we have to start wondering whether it's legitimate when we see the numbers increase like this. Since we have no way of knowing, I'd suggest we assume it's legitimate unless we're told otherwise. 

Simon

[mapstar]

Just now, caracol_uk said:

Personally I do think it's legitimate and a result of the tweet from last night. Given all the hard work that has been put in by many of us it's a shame that we have to start wondering whether it's legitimate when we see the numbers increase like this. Since we have no way of knowing, I'd suggest we assume it's legitimate unless we're told otherwise. 

Simon

I would tend to agree Simon that it is legit as the regional signatures are pretty much following the trend earlier in the petition of most signed areas. The large ring around London is still there and areas where dark skies still remain are strong in their commitment. 

[Physopto]

Come on folks we have all been busy working towards this petition gaining at least 10,000 signatures. Looks like we may now get there. (I never count my chickens until I am sure).

So please no more "Doom Saying" let us just be happy the total signature count is rising towards the goal of 10,000.

Being negative is not the way forwards. Be happy one and all.

9,554 at present. 23 days left  so only need average of about 19 a day from now on to get there even if no more stupendous results like these come our way!

 

Derek

[Physopto]

Have a read of this article just found it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3665514/Light-pollution-changing-seasons-Brightness-cities-makes-spring-appear-week-earlier-countryside.html

just published.

Also:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/06/light-pollution-early-spring-budbursts/

[astrotyke]

409 signatures to go! good work guys, still just over 3 weeks to go aswell!

[astrotyke]

I shared the aurora watch post from facebook as I think i forgot to do that yesterday. every little helps

[Physopto]

I have also just posted the British Light Pollution research reports on Facebook.

 

[Physopto]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">To see aurora we need dark skies. Pls consider signing this petition to combat light pollution<a href="https://t.co/qP2hU0SWjg">https://t.co/qP2hU0SWjg</a></p>&mdash; AuroraWatch UK (@aurorawatchuk) <a href="https://twitter.com/aurorawatchuk/status/747876091667300352">28 June 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

Not tried this before so if it is in any way wrong Mods Please remove or let me know and I will.

Derek

[Physopto]

Well this has been a quite extraordinary 24 hours, or should I say 18 hours. Since the Tweet on Twitter went out!

As of this moment 12:45 hrs  the total signatures is 9,654. we now only need 346 signatures in the next 23 days left (15 sigs per day approx.). Outstanding and thank you to everyone  here and on AurorawatchUK for responding.

The AB&S views is 1235 up by 13.

Derek

[sooot]

Heads up. Big thing going on on twitter about light pollution causing spring to come early

[mapstar]

24 minutes ago, Physopto said:

Well this has been a quite extraordinary 24 hours, or should I say 18 hours. Since the Tweet on Twitter went out!

As of this moment 12:45 hrs  the total signatures is 9,654. we now only need 346 signatures in the next 23 days left (15 sigs per day approx.). Outstanding and thank you to everyone  here and on AurorawatchUK for responding.

The AB&S views is 1235 up by 13.

Derek

Just to add, 2692 signatures added since yesterday which is astonishing. 

On the other side it is still only a minority of just less than 10k that care about the skies. 

Concern throughout the world about this is growing though which makes sense.