Suitable Scope for Primary School

[kenny k]

After visting Jodrell Bank as a volinteer with my son's class yesterday iv'e been inspired to try and start an Astronomy Club for his primary school.

I secured some funds today from my generous employers Dornan Engineers to fund for a new scope to get us started,around £350 im told.

The scope would mainly be used for lunar and planetry due to light pollution.

My first thoughts were to get the biggest Dob for budget,then my thought's were...do i want to be jumping in between a line of 15/20 parents and children at the eyepiece every time to center objects.Maybe a goto would be better for tracking objects.

Your thoughts most welcome.

 

Kenny

[DevonSkies]

I think a goto/tracking mount would be a good idea. If you are viewing planets they will drift across the FOV in no time.

How about a Skymax 127 on a synscan AZ goto mount? I've never used one, but I hear they are good for planets and lunar. Available for around £350.

Just a thought!

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Ya Kenny, I have and use a 127 Mak from Celestron and find it to be a very good Luna/Planetary scope - just about ideal for star parties/clubs, the tracking would be a real bonus - a very small and light package to move around and set up in a few minutes - its long focal length works well with Luna/Planets, but the dob - I think is around F6 - so mag for mag against the two scopes its about the same with a 5" Mak giving nice views at F11 - or the 8" for the Dob but at F6 the image size will be relatively smaller - so what you gain with one you loose with the other - but the tracking would do it for me - you say that you would have to be jumping in and re - nudging to keep track, but with the Mak it will track all night with the odd check at the EP.

Mind you if you could up the budget a little bit and get a 16" SCT - when can I move in!!

 

Paul.

[kenny k]

The skymax 127 was on my list...is the mount up to carrying the OTA.... would be one concern.

Thanks DevonSkies

 

Kenny

[jetstream]

If a goto scope gets "bumped" will it realign itself to the target?

[Moonshane]

8" dob

you will have queues no matter what

http://www.year5merseyvale.blogspot.co.uk/

[Dixie]

Kenny  

I think the 127 is a good match for your needs - esp if it's solar system targets. Meniscus will dew so a good shield is a minimum.  I've been using a 120mm StarTravel for outreach on an AZ4 - works well under the dark skies of Northumberland.  But not instrument of choice for planets and the moon.  It would work well enough on its mount for your purposes.

Rich

[Moonshane]

7 minutes ago, jetstream said:

If a goto scope gets "bumped" will it realign itself to the target?

this is a good point actually, try and form a perimeter (an invisible line I call it) that nobody other than the adult and the current user of the scope can cross. This stops kids constantly bumping, pushing etc.

I have some rules I could send you if it would help and a letter etc.

[pete_l]

Before buying anything, I hope you've discussed this with the school and the local authority. There are so many pitfalls and objections they could raise if they don't want to do this, aren't keen on doing something new and novel, or don't understand the issues / benefits.

You might find that the best option would be "passive" viewing: telescope - webcam - children sitting around a computer.

I'd advise finding out what is possible or permissible first. Maybe if anyone else here has done this. Then at least you'll have precedent and a case study to work with.

[kenny k]

15 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

8" dob

you will have queues no matter what

http://www.year5merseyvale.blogspot.co.uk/

Looks like your doin some good work with the kids there Shane..well done.

Any tips would be most welcome.

Cheers

Kenny

[kenny k]

22 minutes ago, Dixie said:

Kenny  

I think the 127 is a good match for your needs - esp if it's solar system targets. Meniscus will dew so a good shield is a minimum.  I've been using a 120mm StarTravel for outreach on an AZ4 - works well under the dark skies of Northumberland.  But not instrument of choice for planets and the moon.  It would work well enough on its mount for your purposes.

Rich

Hi Rich,hope your well.

I have some large dew tapes to run off batteries.

 

Kenny

[Dixie]

Kenny

I've inspected the 127 but have not used one - I gather they are adequate in terms of stability.  Which for £350 is about what you would expect.  But you can track which is a very good bonus. Plus the fact you don't have to mess with collimation.  As I say if you doing this at Kielder or Galloway I'd suggest the wide field refractor route, but for Jodrell the mak is a good option. Good value too. 

Rich

[happy-kat]

Go bigger still in budget range on the new by all accounts excellent mount the skywatcher star discovery 150p goto. There is an excellent video on Nature and Astronomy TV.

[Moonshane]

hi mate

will upload some bits for you tomorrow.

off the top of my head would recommend:

• organise planned dates but be prepared for changes and short notice sessions - you know why!
• if they have to be a fixed date plan some indoor sessions
• if you have one scope (two or more cheap ones might be better in hindsight than one great one) then keep group sizes down.
• get a parental consent that acknowledges the rules.
• invite parents at the end of sessions - makes sure they arrive on time as they will want a look too.
• you'll need school staff with you unless you have a DBS/barred list check

 

[kenny k]

1 hour ago, pete_l said:

Before buying anything, I hope you've discussed this with the school and the local authority. There are so many pitfalls and objections they could raise if they don't want to do this, aren't keen on doing something new and novel, or don't understand the issues / benefits.

You might find that the best option would be "passive" viewing: telescope - webcam - children sitting around a computer.

I'd advise finding out what is possible or permissible first. Maybe if anyone else here has done this. Then at least you'll have precedent and a case study to work with.

Ive had a breif discussion with the Deputy head who happens to be head of science at the school,i put my ideas to her and they seemed very excited about having a Astronomy club at their school.

 

Kenny

[kenny k]

1 hour ago, Moonshane said:

hi mate

will upload some bits for you tomorrow.

off the top of my head would recommend:

• organise planned dates but be prepared for changes and short notice sessions - you know why!
• if they have to be a fixed date plan some indoor sessions
• if you have one scope (two or more cheap ones might be better in hindsight than one great one) then keep group sizes down.
• get a parental consent that acknowledges the rules.
• invite parents at the end of sessions - makes sure they arrive on time as they will want a look too.
• you'll need school staff with you unless you have a DBS/barred list check

 

Thanks Shane,i could always bring one of  my own scopes along if there is adequate interest.

Two teachers i spoke too so far said they would help out,they also gave me the check forms to in fill too.

Thanks again

Kenny

[ArmyAirForce]

Depending on funds, perhaps one goto scope and a couple of Skywatcher Heritage-76 Mini Dobsonians?

[DevonSkies]

Maybe a few pairs of budget 10x50 binoculars even?

[Charic]

4 hours ago, pete_l said:

Before buying anything, I hope you've discussed this with the school and the local authority. There are so many pitfalls and objections they could raise if they don't want to do this, aren't keen on doing something new and novel, or don't understand the issues / benefits.
You might find that the best option would be "passive" viewing: telescope - webcam - children sitting around a computer.
I'd advise finding out what is possible or permissible first. Maybe if anyone else here has done this. Then at least you'll have precedent and a case study to work with.

This comment is along my lines of my thinking too. There are certain hurdles to overcome when working with children, even if you are a parent. I work with special needs children, and the checks and vetting  is continuous , so that's something worth  taking into account to ensure you can work with the children in the first place. A clear background, no records, is a good start. 

I would  like the idea of a tented situation where the kids can be out of the cold, sat equal   distance from a large screen that receives information from a PC/telescope system. Stellarium is also a great point of reference for anyone, its a freeware package, almost essential?
Binoculars, say 7x50 8x40 and 10x50s would help for general observations of the constellations, and they will be very easy to pass around if the groups are larger than expected.

There's so much that can be discussed, but do some checks first then take it from there, no doubt there will be much more input from this thread to help you on your way. Best of luck.

[Moonshane]

here's my letter and consent form

feel free to use them/adapt them/ignore them!

 

Space Club Task planets.docx

space club register.xlsx

Space Club permission slip.docx

Space Club 20130123.docx

questions 20160111.docx

Observing Summary for Astronomy Club 20120112.docx

flyer.docx

astro club rules.docx

astro club attendees letter.docx

[ollypenrice]

Good project. While teaching I never did any observing outreach with children, though I did teach an adult astronomy class. I'd have gone with the 127 Mak suggestion on two grounds, firstly for the tracking and secondly from the suspicion that a Newtonian might be allergic to life in a primary school. However, Shane has done this and I haven't so I'm happy to defer.

I'd be delighted to donate an astrophoto print to your club. Just PM me if you'd like one.

Olly

[kenny k]

Thanks for all your comments,i know there will be obstacles to overcome when working with children but the vibes from the school are very positive so im confident they will do all they can to help me overcome any that may arise.

Iv'e had many security checks done due to my Job so im confident there will be no problems there.

I did think off a binocular setup also which i could use my personal setup to kick things off.

Thanks for kind offer Olly,i will be in touch when things start moving,i thougt of putting some astro posters in the school assembly so the kids can see them.

All the classes in the school have just visited Jodrell Bank so im hoping to strike while the irons hot?

 

Thanks again.

 

Kenny

[kenny k]

HI folks,just a quick update on my project for my sons primary school Astronomy club.

Yesterday a nice package arrived at work containing a Skymax 127 AZ synscan Goto thanks to the kind donation from my employers.

Top marks to Peter & George at Opticstar for speed of service as this item was ordered Thursday morning and arrived before lunch the next day.

Im hoping to setup this evening and give things run out...i'll post my thoughts when i get chance.

Thanks

 

Kenny 

[niallk]

Best of luck!

One little suggestion is the following:

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3288_SolarScope-standard-for-riskless-solar-observation-in-groups.html

It is cheap, safe, suitable for small kids, and 3 or 4 can look at the same time.  Combining with a visit to the NASA SOHO page on a big screen, it could make for a cool 15min interlude on a sunny day - if the sun shines in a window, and an interesting sunspot is about.

All the best,

-Niall 

[Bino Pete]

During the transit earlier this month I took my scope in to the primary school I work in to let the children/parents have a look at it. They were all very impressed and suggested an astronomy club which I'm in the middle of organising. My local high school also have an astronomy club up and running with great success. This was the queue to look through my scope!!