Mount control from remote warm room question

[Skipper Billy]

I am in the early planning stage of a small obsy.

I have an existing shed with heat and power etc which I want to use as a warm room and its about 20m from the location I want to build a small obsy - just a small one to house the scope - I am busily grabbing all the great ideas from this forum - there are some very creative and hard-working people !!!

I am OK with getting power etc from the warm room to the obsy but my question concerns the data link.

I am thinking that the powered hub I use now could be fixed to the mount and just one USB cable run to the warm room but 20m is too far for a USB cable I think ??

What's the thinking about the best way to achieve this ??

(Simple, not overly technical language please - I am not a computer scientist !!)

[Kropster]

I run just a 12V power cable and a USB cable to my mount, where I have a USB hub.

It works really well. Over about 5 metres, you will need to use a usb booster type extension cable.... it has a signal boosting amp built into the female end. 

[chrisvdberge]

Or just have a computer in the obs controlling everything and remote desktop to it from the warm room using wifi

[MikeP]

Or just have a computer in the obs controlling everything and remote desktop to it from the warm room using wifi

That's what I was going to suggest.  As an alternative to wifi you could consider power line adapters.

Mike

[chrisvdberge]

That's what I was going to suggest.  As an alternative to wifi you could consider power line adapters.

Mike

I guess wired would be best indeed. 

There are some micro/mini pc's available for around 200-300$ that includes Windows 8.1/10, or you can go for something expensive (but awesome) dedicated like the EAGLE control unit; 

http://www.primalucelab.com/astronomy/eagle-control-unit-for-telescopes-and-astrophotography.html

[SW130p]

i have a 20m ethernet cable from my router to the obsy with no probs, did have wifi but signal was weak. Connect to my pc in the lounge using Teamviewer, can also remotely control it with my iphone with the teamviewer and anywhere in the world remotely. 

Be nice to be able to control it lying in a warm cosy bed Lol

[AndyKeogh]

I am OK with getting power etc from the warm room to the obsy but my question concerns the data link.

I am thinking that the powered hub I use now could be fixed to the mount and just one USB cable run to the warm room but 20m is too far for a USB cable I think ??

What's the thinking about the best way to achieve this ??

You have already had a few good ideas. If you are prepared to put a pc in the observatory then I would run an Ethernet cable from your shed assuming of course that you already have Ethernet there.  Do not use the flexible patch leads but proper infrastructure cable and terminate each end in a socket.  I already use that method to get control to my shed PC.

I also use Maplin 12m active usb cables to the mount.  These can be cascaded to make 24m or 36m links but I have not tried them in cascade mode.  Cascading would mean having to secure the joint from moisture ingress.

I have tried BT power line adapters but they would not work in the shed only on the mains wiring in the house.  As others have said you can control the obsy PC or shed PC using Team viewer (TV).  I do this when at home and using wired Ethernet.  I have just come back from a caravan where I tried controlling my PC with TV over a wireless network and my machine kept crashing about 7 times a day and night    In the end I had to sit out in the cold  but the system did not crash.  YMMV.

Andy

[AndyKeogh]

i. 

Be nice to be able to control it lying in a warm cosy bed Lol

Isn't that what a laptop is for    It does annoy my wife when I check on things during the night.

[ChrisLX200]

20M is an awkward distance for a USB extension , 15M is fine (-ish) using a repeater cable but I think that's about the limit. Anything longer and I would be looking at something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00T9RTT2U?keywords=usb%202%20over%20ethernet%204-port&qid=1445886419&ref_=sr_1_6&sr=8-6which is USB over Cat5/6 network cable.

ChrisH

[Skipper Billy]

Thanks guys some great info and data transfer there - more headscratching to do !!!

Thanks again.

[seo]

I have two of these (20m) =>  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004LXHTNI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00  i installed in my obsy. At least for me they both working flawlessly and  each one of them is connected with one 7 port USB 2.0 hub for one and a half year now in all weather conditions.

Of course as ChrisH and others wrote there are also Cat5/6 USB Extenders, which I also have and they also both working fine and also Remote Desktop connections.

IMHO, whenever is doable I prefer cable connections at least for the control part. 

[SW130p]

Isn't that what a laptop is for    It does annoy my wife when I check on things during the night.

I dont have a laptop, thats why I said my iphone. Think its time I got one though.

[Scorpius]

Finally got tired of messing around with the cheap active hubs which never worked dependably for me. Software was constantly crashing & I could never get in a full night of imaging without multiple dropped connections. So finally bit the bullet and purchased one of these. Only had a chance to use it a couple times so far but it has worked flawlessly each time. Says it’s Cat 5 but you can use Cat 6 as well which is more resistant to interference from mains, etc. There’s no software or drivers to fool around with as it’s just plug & play. A bit pricey no doubt but you can use splitters in the 4 ports provided & connect up to 11 USB devices. Due to cost, I’d be hesitant to advise that it’s the best solution however the cost associated with the other option of a second laptop would seem about the same unless you already have one you could network with your current PC using software like TeamViewer. I guess the big advantage of TeamViewer would be wireless connectivity but I prefer hard wired connections for their simplicity and dependability. In the end it’s your call but this device has worked exactly as advertised so pleased with my investment so far. Good luck with whatever solution you choose & clear skies...

http://icronshop.com/home/usb-20-ranger-2204

USB 2.0 Ranger 2204 Datasheet.pdf

[r3i]

I've tried USB booster cables in the past without success but that was a good while ago and maybe their quality/reliability has improved since then.  Even so, if budget will allow, I'd still be minded to recommend a PC in the observatory which would be remote accessed via either PowerLine or a proper network cable.  I use PowerLine to connect my observatory to the house router and it works fine. I would have preferred to have used a network cable but I couldn't be chewed at the time to work out a straightforward way of routing the network cable back to the router, so I took the easy way out.

Do you already have network access in your existing shed or will the connection between your shed and observatory be standalone?

[Skipper Billy]

Thanks Mike 

There is currently nothing in the warm room except mains power.

I quite like the look of the USB over cat6 adapters - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00T9RTT2U?keywords=usb%202%20over%20ethernet%204-port&qid=1445886419&ref_=sr_1_6&sr=8-6

These cat6 cables look OK http://www.netstoredirect.com/rj45-network-cables/239231-external-cat6-utp-ldpe-rj45-patch-leads.html?ipa=3786&gclid=COSxhM6-5cgCFSgXwwodjPEL1g#/length-15m

Anyone used them ???

[Ouroboros]

Skipper Billy - I'm thinking about the same problem although the distance is considerably less. What I'm having difficulty getting my head around is how does one set up the scope and mount when the computer that's controlling it is not right next to you?

[chrisvdberge]

As long as you are not fully remote/automated yet, you will have the need/use for a local computer I would say yes. If not just for framing (rotating) and focussing. 

[Skipper Billy]

Ouroborus - I am fully automated inc electronic filter wheel and electronic focusing so I am hoping for one trip out to open the shed, switch on, adjust dew band settings, remove scope caps then retire to warm room - the only need to go outside would be to adjust camera rotation. I might install an IR webcam so I can keep an eye on proceedings to make sure all is OK.

I think if you are not fully automated a remote PC is pretty much essential

[Ouroboros]

Probably, yes. Thus far my laptop has been in passive mode - receiving images etc - but not controlling. All that I've done at the scope with the synscan handset. But I want to try using EQMOD, Cartes Du Ciel etc, to control the scope.

[AndyKeogh]

Skipper Billy - I'm thinking about the same problem although the distance is considerably less. What I'm having difficulty getting my head around is how does one set up the scope and mount when the computer that's controlling it is not right next to you?

Well my computer is in a shed about 10m from my scope and I rely on a USB connection between the scope and the computer.  I use 2 hubs one to manage the usb extension cable and  host the wireless dongle for my joystick, my Oculus and the Hitec Astro mount hub pro( MHP)  The MHP handles camera focus 4 dew heaters, EQDIR, cameras and a few extra devices to resolve USB and EQDIR lockups.

As a luxury I can use my laptop via a wireless network to access my network and login to the control computer via Team viewer otherwise I have to go to and from the scope to the screen which is very time consuming.

Andy

[Physopto]

LINDY USB active cables work. You can get the 8 mtr one and add either another 8 mtr or 12 mtr etc. But the first one has to be 8 mtr. It supposedly works up to 56 mtrs. I have only tried 16 mtrs total and was fine.

It is simpler than trying USB to cat cable extenders.

Derek

[Tinker1947]

That's what I was going to suggest.  As an alternative to wifi you could consider power line adapters.

Mike

Mine works ok with this set-up Power line to Power line adapter roughly 120'........

[Horwig]

I second power line network adaptors, but they do need good power lines, no dodgy flexy cables, my obsy is conected to the house on swa cable, and the power line adaptor is faultless. I then use windows 7 remote desktop to control the imaging pc from the house, and the all sky camera, on a separate mini pc is viewed using remote desktop.

They go to the power line network adaptor via an ethernet hub, then I can control everything from the house.

But really, nothing beats a solid cable connection. If your obsy is 20m from the warm room, then look at Startech active usb cables, I'm using a 15m a to b cable on my portable rig, and it's never given any problem, they do longer extension, like this: http://www.startech.com/uk/Cables/USB-2.0/USB-2.0-Cables/?filter_CABLELENGTH=25+m+%5b82+ft%5d

To run it between buildings, use plastic water pipe, or even hosepipe to protect the cable, and ensure the ends of the pipe are vertical, and blocked, to keep mice out, a friend didn't and lost a whole lot of cat 5 to rodents!

Huw

[Skipper Billy]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and for sharing your experiences.

I have opted for the USB to Cat6 adapter then Cat6 to the warm room then Cat6 back to USB - guaranteed to 60m so the 19m I need should be fine

Will post the results once installed for the benefit of others.

Just got a big hole to dig first !

[Physopto]

Just make sure your cat6 cable is well insulated from any sharp objects and cannot get snagged. The standard cable is very prone to breakage if not protected. It does not like repeated bending/flexing.

Best of luck with the digging.

Derek