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Hardware and software advice needed for upgrading to guided imaging

ianpwilliams

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cjdawson

cjdawson

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With your webcam, there are lots of things to do, but each isn't overly complicated.

1. remove lens from webcam

2. find way of mounting the webcam in the eyepiece socket of your guide scope.  (I'm assuming that you have a guide scope already, if not, you could get an off axis guider to try but personally, I'd use a guide scope as it's orientation can be massaged to help aquire a guide star)

3. get autoguiding software.  PHD, K3CCDTools, Lin_guider as a few that I know of.

4. have the webcam images feeding into the software.

5. have the software feed it's output to your scopes serial cable.  (This is where Ascom would sit, or you could have it drive the scope directly)

once all that is done, you should be able to have your scope guided anytime.

I'm making assumptions that you have a goto mount with an serial port, and a guide scope.

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ianpwilliams

ianpwilliams

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Yes I have a GOTO mount, and I'm planning on buying the Orion guide scope, so I'd need some kind of adaptor to attach the webcam to the Orion, and I'm not sure how there could be an adaptor for that considering that webcam designs vary so much. And I'm not sure how I'd remove the lens from the webcam. And I would need to buy the EQMOD cable from FLO, although that's a lot cheaper than buying the ASI120MM guide cam and going via ST4.

The question is whether I be able to have the webcam and guide scope securely attached to each other in the same way that the ASI and Orion would be.

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salas

salas

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So many options to choose from! I was in the same position starting guiding in February and recently got a new laptop so had to load all software up again. I use an ST80 for guiding, and the good thing with this is you can use it as a normal quick set up, light weight observing scope in it's own right. You will  need the Hitec Astro USB to mount cable for controlling the HEQ5 via software such as Stellarium. I like Stellarium because basically every target of interest is available to slew to once you are polar aligned. I also use a PlayStation / game type controller for manually controlling the mount / making slight corrections to where the mount is pointing. I don't believe you need to use software for polar aligning, there are some overly complex polar alignment routines which just aren't necessary if you are guiding. I do a good enough polar scope alignment and then let guiding take care of things - works for me.

For my Canon it's connected to the laptop via standard mini USB cable and feeds it's pics straight to Backyard EOS as soon as its taken for viewing on the go.

For guiding I use a QHY2 Colour (the cheapest one at around £130 I think) plugged straight in to the laptop and run through PHD2. The QHY2 needs an extension tube to achieve focus with the ST80 but if you have a Barlow you can remove the lens from job done.

All of these cables use up USB ports so you may need a mini USB hub - get a half decent one.

All of the software I use is free with the exception of Backyard EOS, which I don't grudge paying for as it is very good, although APT is an option and I hear good things about it I've not used it myself. In Summary the software I have running:

EQ MOD (need Hitec Astro cable)

ASCOM Drivers

Backyard EOS

Stellarium

Stellarium Scope (this is an add on for Stellarium)

PHD2

I guess it can seem like a lot, but once you've started it all up and got going a few times it's normally straight forward. Note I said normally! Plate solving next for me.

Thanks,

Steve

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ianpwilliams

ianpwilliams

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Thanks, I've decided to go with the ASI120MM guide cam into the Orion guide scope (pending confirmation from SCS that the two will work together, hopefully without any need for an extension tube), mainly because I don't trust myself to remove the lens from the webcam, crush the LED lights, and then glue the thing to an adaptor without screwing things up.

So at the moment it's looking like connecting the ASI guide cam to the laptop via USB and to the mount via ST4 (no Hitec cable needed yet, and no ASCOM either), and see how things go with that, using the SynScan to slew and track, and PHD2 to hopefully guide. I'm hoping that that can be a fairly gentle introduction to guided imaging, which is certainly what I need, especially having read that linked topic that I posted.

Then after that I'm sure I'll introduce ASCOM etc, because introducing the laptop into the equation is complicated enough but to do it in such a way that you still have to switch between the laptop and the SynScan makes it even worse. So at some point I will need to go with ASCOM and the Hitec cable, and then I can use EQMOD, Stellarium etc and take the SynScan completely out of the equation.

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ianpwilliams

ianpwilliams

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I was planning on buying this one:

http://www.365astronomy.com/ZWO-ASI120MM-Monochrome-1-3-CMOS-USB2.0-Camera-with-Autoguider-Port.html

But the one you posted seems to be pretty much the same, just £20 cheaper. I'm not sure if either one is any better than the other?

Either way, it'll be worth keeping the webcam for planetary imaging in the future I reckon.

Incidentally, that image of the sun on the Tring link is amazing! You can see so much detail! And it's reminded me that I bought a solar filter for my scope during the last eclipse, and I took photos of the eclipse as it happened and the images were reasonably good, but I bet they would be a lot better if I just took images of the full sun with no moon in the way!

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Thalestris24

Thalestris24

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I was planning on buying this one:

http://www.365astronomy.com/ZWO-ASI120MM-Monochrome-1-3-CMOS-USB2.0-Camera-with-Autoguider-Port.html

But the one you posted seems to be pretty much the same, just £20 cheaper. I'm not sure if either one is any better than the other?

Either way, it'll be worth keeping the webcam for planetary imaging in the future I reckon.

Incidentally, that image of the sun on the Tring link is amazing! You can see so much detail! And it's reminded me that I bought a solar filter for my scope during the last eclipse, and I took photos of the eclipse as it happened and the images were reasonably good, but I bet they would be a lot better if I just took images of the full sun with no moon in the way!

Hi

I have neither! I use qhy5l-ii mono guide cams :) Not sure if you also need a UV/IR cut filter with either of the above? I'm sure someone else can confirm.

Louise

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D4N

D4N

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The mono cams tend to come with clear glass screens that do not block UV or IR but there is no need to use a UV/IR cut filter for guiding. Some out of focus IR light will actually make PHD's job a bit easier as the centre of the star will be easier to calculate ;)

/Dan

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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ianpwilliams

ianpwilliams

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Yes, and I'm not sure how I'd find out the answer to that, and SCS might not know either seeing as they don't stock both items. There must be someone on here who has used the ASI or Altair cam with the Orion scope, but finding out who could be tough.

Otherwise I could just go ahead and buy them and then see if I can focus on a distant object in the daytime as I'm sure I would do some dry runs indoors etc, and then buy an extension tube if required.

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gooselk

gooselk

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I can't really help you about the ASI/Orion combination but I have a short comment about using the ASI as a planetary imager. Although I haven't tried it myself yet, that's the route I will go for my planetary.

Use the ASI combined with an IR-pass filter to get a hi-res infrared b/w image of the planet. You'd use IR because it suffers less from seeing. You'll need a high power barlow lens to get an image of decent size. Then you can use your color webcam to get a colored but most likely more blurry/noisy image just after capturing the IR. You can combine them in postprocessing so that the picture of the ASI acts as luminance (sharpness) and the qualitywise inferior image of the webcam contributes the color information, creating an IrRGB. This way you can create a hi-res color image without having to deal with all the filters and stuff... There are plenty of tutorials available on the net.

I was in the same situation as you are just a few weeks back (haven't got a chance to test my stuff yet...) and I went for the ASI120MM mono in combination with a Teleskop-Service 9mm Off-axis-guider. As a scope I use the next bigger brother of your scope, the SW 150PDS.

Clear skies ... Lars

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ianpwilliams

ianpwilliams

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Thanks, I'm sure I'll need lots of advice when it comes to planetary imaging, and I'll no doubt try using the webcam for that. I am now leaning towards the Altair that Louise linked to, just because it seems to be the exact same specs, and I like the neatness of the eyepiece-like design. But I expect that both of those cameras would give the same results.

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D4N

D4N

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The chip inside is far more important than the shape of the camera, I'm not sure how the Altair one compares to the Asi or QHY offerings but for guiding you need a sensitive chip and for planetary you need high frame rates.

/Dan

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Thalestris24

Thalestris24

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Hi

The GPCAM Mono appears to have the same chip as the qhy5l-ii mono - the MT9M034M. I have just ordered a GPCAM mono as I need a third guide cam! :) They also have an optional cooling unit for £25 though not in stock yet. I'm not sure how well it will cool the sensor because of the heatsinking in the scope. But I imagine it will cool by maybe 5-10 deg depending on ambient (I'm guessing!). There may be a way to isolate the camera housing from the scope - perhaps with some plastic film. Something to experiment with :).

Louise

Edit: They also do an optional 0.5 reducer which might be worth investigating

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ianpwilliams

ianpwilliams

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Yes, the mono versions of both the ASI and the Altair cameras have that same sensor, and all other specs seem to match to, the only difference being that the Altair is 30 grams lighter. So I think I'll go with the Altair.

I'm not sure about the cooling situation as I don't know much about it. What do I need to be aware of?

And what would the 0.5 reducer do?

I also don't know if I would need an extension tube to reach focus, but I suppose I can only confirm that once I do a test-setup.

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Thalestris24

Thalestris24

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Yes, the mono versions of both the ASI and the Altair cameras have that same sensor, and all other specs seem to match to, the only difference being that the Altair is 30 grams lighter. So I think I'll go with the Altair.

I'm not sure about the cooling situation as I don't know much about it. What do I need to be aware of?

And what would the 0.5 reducer do?

I also don't know if I would need an extension tube to reach focus, but I suppose I can only confirm that once I do a test-setup.

Actually I've realised that the optional cooler is just a passive heatsink and fan so may not do much, especially in winter... In principal, cooling the sensor can reduce its noise though that's less important for guiding which only needs short exposures. The reducer might be useful if you have a long focal length guide scope. So, for my 70mm Travel Scope which is 400mm and f5.7 the reducer would convert it into a 200mm/f2.86 so faster. It wouldn't be needed for a finder guider.

Louise

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tomato

tomato

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I've just started auto guiding with the Altair GPCam (mono) and the Altair  60 mm finder/guide scope and PHD2 using the ST-4 port on the mount. A nice lightweight set up, could achieve focus with the adapters supplied with the scope and camera and was guiding within a hour of setting up. Not the cheapest option but very hassle free. :grin:

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Thalestris24

Thalestris24

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I didn't think that the GPCam had auto guiding capabilities, and you did mention PHD2 which I'm guessing you wouldn't need if auto guiding...did you mean standard guiding?

'Autoguiding' usually refers to methods involving a guide camera and guide star plus cables and software. There are standalone autoguiders such as the Synguider which operate without a separate computer :)

Louise

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