Orion Optics UK VX12 VX12L or VX14?

[Dendroica]

I am thinking of getting one of OOUK VX14 Dob or a OUK VX12 or12L.  Dob. Both at 1/10PV

It's my pension pot purchase and will be the last scope I ever buy ... I think!!

I am interested in DSOs, planets and the moon... well that just about covers everything!!

Is £500 a reasonable budget to cover some decent eyepieces? Recommendations?

Will I need a paracorr or similar device? especially on the VX14?

They both look reasonably portable so should both fit in my Octavia estate. Comments welcome!

I should mention I have no interest at the moment in astrophotography ..

Many thanks

Dave

NW Norfolk

[NickK]

You may want to talk to Adrian Condon.. he's a 1/10 PV OO dob owner and a visual only user.

I personally would go for the 14".. the more light the the better for visual. However you may also want to consider the additional weight and lifting in/out of a car - depending on your level of fitness.

[John]

HI Dave,

All these are great scopes so it's just a matter of picking the one that ticks the most boxes for you

Personally I have the equivilent of the VX12L on a dobsonian base. My mirror was specified at 1/8th wave PV but is actually 1/9th wave - Orion Optics usually manage to slightly better what you ask for !

My 12L does not need a coma corrector and I only see coma right at the very edges of 100 degree eyepieces. The faster F/4.5 or F/4 scopes may well require a CC if you are interested in wide field of view and the coma bothers you.

Your eyepiece budget will be enough although a CC will eat into it of course. Don't get a taste for Ethos eyepieces or it will all go in a single eyepiece !

Orion Optics scopes are lighter than their Skywatcher, Meade or Revelation equvilents. My 12L dob weighs around the same as the 10" Skywatcher or Revelation. Having looked at a 14" Skywatcher I'd say that would be a handful for me but I strongly suspect that the 14" Orion Optics would be manageble and would fit into a decent size estate car. I have a Volvo 850 estate and my 12L plus it's base and sundry other equipment fits in fine.

Hope that helps a bit but you are definitely thinking along the right lines for a "rest of your life" scope, unless you get bitten by aperture fever of course. 12" or 14" of aperture is pretty impressive though, especially when well figured and Hilux coated !

[Dendroica]

HI Dave,

All these are great scopes ...

My 12L does not need a coma corrector and I only see coma right at the very edges of 100 degree eyepieces. The faster F/4.5 or F/4 scopes may well require a CC if you are interested in wide field of view and the coma bothers you.

Your eyepiece budget will be enough although a CC will eat into it of course. Don't get a taste for Ethos eyepieces or it will all go in a single eyepiece !

Orion Optics scopes are lighter than their Skywatcher, Meade or Revelation equvilents. My 12L dob weighs around the same as the 10" Skywatcher or Revelation. Having looked at a 14" Skywatcher I'd say that would be a handful for me but I strongly suspect that the 14" Orion Optics would be manageble and would fit into a decent size estate car. I have a Volvo 850 estate and my 12L plus it's base and sundry other equipment fits in fine.

... unless you get bitten by aperture fever of course. 12" or 14" of aperture is pretty impressive though, especially when well figured and Hilux coated !

Thanks John and NickK

Any recommendations for the eyepieces?

The VX14 has a tube length of 1540mm and weighs 20kg (about as much as a packed suitcase) I reckon I should be able to hug and dance with it to the outside. I  have just measured it for the car so think I'll be OK in the that respect. The mount weighs 16kg.

As to the aperture fever... does it get worse? 

[John]

On aperture fever, 16-18" seems to be the new 12-14" now. Too big for me though given my observing circumstances. It's great to look through them at star parties though

My 12L has a focal length of 1590mm. The eyepieces I use most with it are: 31mm, 21mm, 13mm, 8mm, 6mm and 5mm. My personal choice is Tele Vue and Pentax but they serve a number of scopes so the investment looks (slightly) better value.

The Explore Scientific eyepieces come in 68, 82 and 100 degree flavours and seem to do very well, even in fast scopes so those would be worth considering and cost a chunk less than the Tele Vue / Pentax equivilents.

In all honesty I'd recommend avoiding the tempation to economise too much on eyepieces with a scope of this capability. Better to get, say, 3 good eyepieces than a bunch of low cost ones. It's a complex and personal subject though so I'd suggest some further research and questions on the forum before committing. Don't feel you have to rush into ordering everything in one go. "Buy in haste, repent at leisure" as the saying goes

If you wear glasses when observing certain designs with long eye relief will serve you much better than others.

[Moonshane]

I am making an assumption based on your intended source of funds that you are in the later years and I'd ask you to consider (I am sure you have) :

• weight
• observing position
• your own height
• your own strength - now and future

I have the 12" f4 OOUK on a home made base, a 16" f4 on a home made base and have previously had a 12" f5.3 on a OOUK base. below is a photo of my 12" and 16". The 14" is between the two of course. The 16" is an amazing scope but these days only gets used at dark sites and star parties. the 12" is a wonderful instrument and is my most used larger scope.

You can observe sitting down in an average chair and it is very light for its size and easy to handle - a lot easier to carry (due to less bulk) than the 12" f5.3 I had previously.

I do use a paracorr but if you are quick you can get used type one unit for about £150-200. I'd not worry about coma for now in terms of which scope although I would definitely plan for a paracorr in due course. a wanted ad might work.

one good thing about the f4 is the wide field it allows which combined with the aperture makes for a heady mix.

eyepieces wise I would have a fiddle with the attached spreadsheet and go from there. My main eyepieces used are a 26mm T5, 16mm T2 and 12mmT2 Naglers and then a 6-3mm Nagler zoom.

hope this helps.

eyepieces and scopes.xls

[Tinker1947]

Dave, Let me know when it arrives and the first clear night i will bring my EP's, your in for a real treat if you liked my 300P the VX14 will blow your socks off.....

[rl]

I've got a 12" f/4 OO scope at 1/10 wave and it's brilliant. It's light enough to be easily portable but you will need a paracorr at f/4 and some top notch eyepieces if you're bothered with coma. The Paracorr still makes a difference at relatively high magnifications ( with an 8mm ethos at *165) You also need to keep a Cheshire eyepiece handy and a set of allen keys in your eyepiece case...collimation is everything or there is no point in the super- accurate mirror.

It's worth re-engineering some of the metal bits with lock washers and tighter hole tolerances if you intend carrying it about often to stop things shifting, The OO tubes are lighter than most which makes them portable but are easily bent by bumps in the dark which affects the collimation. if  you're visual only it might be worth asking OO to fit the focuser a bit further up the tube (you won't need the back focus for a camera) and fitting the smallest possible secondary that will correctly illuminate your wide field eyepiece. The secondary obstruction does far more damage than going from 1/10 to 1/8 wave optics. I did this mod to mine; cut an extra hole in the tube just to get the secondary size down. OO are very responsive to such individual requests.

RL

[russ.will]

My 2p. I'd save the expenditure on the 1/10 mirrors and spend it on EP quality. I had a VX8L 1/10 and to my eyes it made little difference. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that visually, you're simply not going to tell the difference above 1/6 and with OOUK, you would be getting a very good 1/6.

I seriously suggest having a look at a 14" scope before you decide whether it's manageable or not. 12" is a bit of a sweet spot in this practical regard, where solid tube scopes are concerned. Also worthy of note is that whilst the OOUK are lighter than the Chinese options due to aluminium OTAs, it also makes them more likely to pick up dents.

The other advantage of going 12" is the F6 focal ratio. It's much easier on EPs, has less coma which an EP can't really correct and crucially, being taller you spend less time grovelling around trying to look through the blessed thing!

If it's a real one-off (really?) scope purchase, have a look at the pictures of the Sumerians one member has just taken delivery of and another is about to get. Partner one of these with OOUK mirrors and you've moved the game onto another pitch, in terms of portability versus size.

Russell

[scarp15]

Both myself and Mike (Faulksy) use an OOUK VX14 Dobsonian mount with 1/10 pv wave optics. In both instances the scope is transported to dark sky locations. Mike may add some comments of his own experiences and I feel that he gets to use his a little more than I do. 

Firstly in terms of aperture, personally I feel that I reached a full stop, that is to say that I do not crave any more. I am able to haul the scope, length ways into my Skoda Fabia hatch back and drive up to around 45 minutes to good dark skies. I keep the VX14 on the dob mount in my back room, I am able to negotiate it through several door ways and a small step through either the back or front of my house to the car. It is easy enough to hold using the Trunnion blocks. It is heavy but OK for one person, I had previous experience with a 300p flex tube so was prepared for this. Therefore if you have some experience handling heavy items it ought to be OK.

In the car, the dob mount is slim and so creates a small footprint, which is also the case for storage. The scope balances very well and is bottom heavy, so will take heavy items at the focuser end really well. I have the friction brake fitted which personally I find essential for keeping objects in place when switching e.p's. I cannot comment too much on the 1/10 optics (I think that Mike has had exceptional high power results on planetary with his) but it is nice to have and the Hilux coatings provide a good reflective addition to the overall light grasp. I observe sat on an adjustable observers chair and it is comfortable to do so (I am 5' 10 1/2"). 

It is convenient to arrive at location and quickly set the scope up and return it quickly back to the vehicle after the session is over. All I have to do is perhaps set the fan going for a spell (though I don't even do that every time). Collimation I adjust at home and if still light, will use my Cheshire once on site, but the scope holds its collimation very well, being a solid tube, thermal management is good to. So far I have not used (I don't have one anyway) a dew shield. I have flocked most of the interior.

The scope has been a dream to use, the motions very smooth, the light grasp superb, for low power I use a 26mm T5. For the first 14 months I did not use a paracorr and would not prioritize this and they are expensive. The focuser does require a 2" extension tube. I now use a paracorr but again whilst it has cleaned up the subtlety of coma a touch, when used without the images were terrific anyhow.  The scope is a good all-rounder for DSO's planetary and lunar.

In fact I have on order a VX8L as I'm used to have an 8" scope to and wanted something that I could travel with when with family and camping kit and for more immediate grab and go at home etc, yet the VX14 continues to excite in terms of maximizing my visual astronomy experience.   

Here is a pic from around the time I first obtained the VX14. 

[faulksy]

i so so agree with you iain. i have looked through a lot of scopes bigger than mine, and dont see a massive difference, wait for it lol. i some times think about going bigger but the 14 punchs well above its size, i used to have a peugeot 306 hatch back and it would fit in that fine. planatery views amazing better than my sct,s and maks that i have owned. most nights i can view planets using well over 300x with brilliant detail. just get te 14" and with your funds for eye pieces just but 1 ep. 13mm ethos

mike

[estwing]

Mikes 14" is a cracker and at dark sky locations it really stretches its legs... But a 12" is less of a handful and still provides plenty of App

[nicoscy]

Dave, 

I have the 12" f4 and have used 16" and 18" Dobs as well. I "restricted" myself to the 12" which I describe as a 12" that thinks it is a 13" but weighs like a 10". My choice was governed by my back and its damaged disks.

I would urge you to take stock of your physical condition and consider if you are comfortable with moving the 14" now, but also 5 years down the line. Since this will be your retirement telescope, it would be a pity a year or so down the line to be forced to sell it for something smaller, as OO scopes take a huge depreciation hit.

I chose the f4 as it fits comfortably in my Honda CRV with room to spare, because I wasn't afraid of collimation issues and because I wanted the widest field possible for the aperture. Obviously I use a paracorr at f4 which is a consideration as it adds to the overall cost.

Please try to see one of these scopes in person and move it about to get a feel for it and for your commitment to using / moving such a telescope.

Based on comments I have read, the difference between 12" and 14" is not that great to perhaps justify the cost and also bulk of the bigger telescope. Usually the jumps are 8"-12"-16"-20" e.t.c.

Best of luck! And don't skimp on the eyepieces. UK Astrobuysell, SGL classifieds e.t.c. are your best friends for picking well cared for pre-owned eyepieces!

[Dendroica]

On aperture fever, 16-18" seems to be the new 12-14" now...

My 12L has a focal length of 1590mm. The eyepieces I use most with it are: 31mm, 21mm, 13mm, 8mm, 6mm and 5mm. My personal choice is Tele Vue and Pentax but they serve a number of scopes so the investment looks (slightly) better value.

The Explore Scientific eyepieces come in 68, 82 and 100 degree flavours and seem to do very well, even in fast scopes so those would be worth considering and cost a chunk less than the Tele Vue / Pentax equivilents.

In all honesty I'd recommend avoiding the tempation to economise too much on eyepieces with a scope of this capability. Better to get, say, 3 good eyepieces than a bunch of low cost ones. It's a complex and personal subject though so I'd suggest some further research and questions on the forum before committing. Don't feel you have to rush into ordering everything in one go. "Buy in haste, repent at leisure" as the saying goes

...

Thanks John for the advice, it's all going in to the grey cells!

I'll have a look at the Explore Scientific eyepieces and see how they stack up to my budget of £500 ..

I am definitely going to bide my time and do more research before delivery date (mid March)

[Dendroica]

Dave, Let me know when it arrives and the first clear night i will bring my EP's, your in for a real treat if you liked my 300P the VX14 will blow your socks off.....

Thanks John. Looking forward to having my socks blown off!

[Dendroica]

I am making an assumption based on your intended source of funds that you are in the later years and I'd ask you to consider (I am sure you have) :

• weight
• observing position
• your own height
• your own strength - now and future

I have the 12" f4 OOUK on a home made base, a 16" f4 on a home made base and have previously had a 12" f5.3 on a OOUK base. below is a photo of my 12" and 16". The 14" is between the two of course. The 16" is an amazing scope but these days only gets used at dark sites and star parties. the 12" is a wonderful instrument and is my most used larger scope.

You can observe sitting down in an average chair and it is very light for its size and easy to handle - a lot easier to carry (due to less bulk) than the 12" f5.3 I had previously.

I do use a paracorr but if you are quick you can get used type one unit for about £150-200. I'd not worry about coma for now in terms of which scope although I would definitely plan for a paracorr in due course. a wanted ad might work.

one good thing about the f4 is the wide field it allows which combined with the aperture makes for a heady mix.

eyepieces wise I would have a fiddle with the attached spreadsheet and go from there. My main eyepieces used are a 26mm T5, 16mm T2 and 12mmT2 Naglers and then a 6-3mm Nagler zoom.

hope this helps.

Thanks Moonshine. The spreadsheet is going to be very useful. I might have a few questions later .... 

[Dendroica]

Thanks also to Scarp15 for reassuring me about the relative portability to dark sky sites and to Faulksy ... already mentioned the 13mm ethos to the wife as a Christmas pressies.

Also thanks to russ will, rl, Nicosky, estwing and everyone else for the helpful comments and advice.

I did indeed order the scope today and went for the VX14 1/10PV F4.6. Delivery due in March sometime.

I'm sure to have more questions!!

Thanks again 

[faulksy]

Thanks also to Scarp15 for reassuring me about the relative portability to dark sky sites and to Faulksy ... already mentioned the 13mm ethos to the wife as a Christmas pressies.

Also thanks to russ will, rl, Nicosky, estwing and everyone else for the helpful comments and advice.

I did indeed order the scope today and went for the VX14 1/10PV F4.6. Delivery due in March sometime.

I'm sure to have more questions!!

Thanks again 

good move you will be amazed at the views and portability using mine tonight. just looked at m3 at 320x looks ace

[estwing]

great scope you will enjoy the views

[scarp15]

Look forward to learning how you get on with your VX14.