First scope..What to buy..£800......help

[K3VBAK3R]

Evening all. I finally have the funds to make my first purchase and am struggling to make a decision. If you had £800 to spend on a set up what would you spend your money on? I've spent the best part of 2 years reading and researching as much as I can but am struggling now the time has come. A couple of caveats

1. I have never owned a telescope before

2. I am an amateur in practice but know a bit of the "theory" involved

3. I know serious astrophotography is out of my budget but would like to still be able to create decent stackable images of planets and possibly slightly more

4. I already have a decent laptop and canon 1100d which I can mod if neccesary

5. I live on the edge of suburbia with "ok" skies across the semi rural fields behind my house

Any help would be appreciated

Kev

[DougM43]

You should be able to pick up a decent secondhand lx 90 for that money,, it ticks all the boxes

[K3VBAK3R]

Thanks DougM43. I need to leave some budget for everything else though. Still Possible?

[damnut]

Hi there, before parting with hard earned cash I would go along to a meet of your local astro group. So you can see what others have and what might suit you best. If your leaning towards imaging then you need deep pockets and the mount is hugely important. If you are a visual only then an SCT is a great compromise. Like many of us you will end up with a couple of scopes!!!

But do make that visit!.

[Uplooker]

Hi Kev,

Welcome to SGL. From reading your post above and your introduction post it seems that you are still a bit unsure where you wan tot go with this hobby  - DSO, Planets, imaging.

To try and address that and give you the ability to expand I am going to suggest a SW 200P on a HEQ5:- http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-200pds-heq5-pro.html

Reason being that it has enough aperture to view most things reasonably well and the mount is what is generally classed as being the minimum for astrophotography.

I know you are only starting out, but if you do intend to get into astrophotography - the mount is everything! It does not matter how fancy a scope you have, if the mount is not up to the job you are stuffed. With a 200P you will see just about all the DSOs you would dream of, you will still be able to image the planets with a webcam (have a search on here for what people achieve with a SPC900) and build a solar filter for looking  at the sun in white light. When you decide that you may want to specialise in one area you can sell the scope or by that time you may have saved the required monies and be able to keep the 200P and buy the more dedicated scope for what you wan to peruse. But and this is a big but, you will have a mount that will be able to fulfil all of those requirements. It will take you a while to either surpass the capapbilities of the HEQ5 or save the additional funds for a NEQ6.

I appreciate that the link above is to something that is over £1000 but it is more than reasonable to suppose that you can make do with the EPs etc that come with the scope for a couple of months - at least until you understand the limitations of them, before upgrading. the only other things that  you may need to add would be a book or two (Turn left at Orion, Making every Photon Count, if you are really interested in AP) and a red light torch.

There are a lot of HEQ5 & 200Ps available for sale second hand on UK Astro buy Sell:-http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/ so you could easily buy the mount and scope and still have money left over to upgrade EPs, buy T-Rings etc.

Ian

[K3VBAK3R]

I've been searching around but I can't seem to find many groups/clubs/societies in or around the liverpool area. Liverpool Astronomical Society seems like it's dead in the water from their website but surely there must be more than that.

[K3VBAK3R]

Thanks Ian, appreciate the advice. Interesting that that is the scope I had my eye on over at FLO (but is just out of my price range). Seems to tick all the boxes and is future proofed to an extent. If I had to take a step down from that what would you suggest. Really appreciate your advice, it's a jungle out there :-)

[xs2man]

Thanks Ian, appreciate the advice. Interesting that that is the scope I had my eye on over at FLO (but is just out of my price range). Seems to tick all the boxes and is future proofed to an extent. If I had to take a step down from that what would you suggest. Really appreciate your advice, it's a jungle out there :-)

I am pretty much at the same place as you.  I have a reasonable budget, but what I really want is just out of reach.  Been doing the research though.

I would suggest that, for imaging anyway, pretty much the least amount of mount you would want would be the HEQ5 anyway.  But that on it's own almost maxes out your budget at £746, assuming you buy new.  You could add a second hand SW 200p for around £110 (here: http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=92571) but the p-ds is meant to be the better 'scope for imaging.  You could go for a 150pds, but that comes in at £229 for the OTA (from FLO).  That won't get you any of the other stuff you are needing/wanting though.

The closest match to your budget, assuming new gear, is the EQ5 Pro + 150 pds (http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-ds-eq-5-pro-goto.html).  That comes in at £715.  Giving you enough left over for your camera adaptors, and maybe a Barlow and a relatively cheap eyepiece if you're lucky.

I'm holding out for a second hand EQ6 personally, as the mount is almost everything when it comes to photography.  But then again, I am still green when it comes to this, so is probably a bit overkill for a beginner.

[K3VBAK3R]

I am pretty much at the same place as you.  I have a reasonable budget, but what I really want is just out of reach.  Been doing the research though.

I would suggest that, for imaging anyway, pretty much the least amount of mount you would want would be the HEQ5 anyway.  But that on it's own almost maxes out your budget at £746, assuming you buy new.  You could add a second hand SW 200p for around £110 (here: http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=92571) but the p-ds is meant to be the better 'scope for imaging.  You could go for a 150pds, but that comes in at £229 for the OTA (from FLO).  That won't get you any of the other stuff you are needing/wanting though.

The closest match to your budget, assuming new gear, is the EQ5 Pro + 150 pds (http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-ds-eq-5-pro-goto.html).  That comes in at £715.  Giving you enough left over for your camera adaptors, and maybe a Barlow and a relatively cheap eyepiece if you're lucky.

I'm holding out for a second hand EQ6 personally, as the mount is almost everything when it comes to photography.  But then again, I am still green when it comes to this, so is probably a bit overkill for a beginner.

Just found this Nebula.  Must be a typo or am i missing something

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-explorer-200pds-eq5-pro-goto-telescope.html

Kev

[K3VBAK3R]

Just found this Nebula.  Must be a typo or am i missing something

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-explorer-200pds-eq5-pro-goto-telescope.html

Kev

Just seen it's EQ5 and not a HEQ5.  My bad.  Surely it's alright though isn't it?

[xs2man]

I asked this question a few weeks ago, and the general consensus was that the 200p sized scopes were too heavy, even for the HEQ5, when it comes to imaging.  I can't find anywhere the weight of the 200pds (just found it, 8.5 Kg), but the HEQ5 has an imaging payload capacity of 11 Kg, compared to the EQ5's 6.5 Kg (these numbers are smaller than the visual capacities, I presume for tracking accuracy).  So it is really too heavy a scope for imaging with the EQ5, and by the time you have mounted your camera and everything, probably borderline with the HEQ5.

So it's probably fine for visual work, but may struggle with the imaging.  As I said, I'd be more tempted to reduce 'scope size, and increase mount size rather than the other way around.

[ronin]

Take your time and decide what it is that you want. There are number of scope designs and each has it's advantage and disadvantage.

Visit the club at Chester (Burley Memorial Hall, Waverton, CH3 7QN.)

Not sure which website you have for the Liverpool society but on the one I can find they look fairly active.

They advertise a public evening on Wednesday 28th this week, and several others.

http://liverpoolas.org/

Clubs: http://www.astronomyclubs.co.uk/

[Koje]

Just my 2 cents but I was in the same position as you a few months ago. Decent budget, done a lot of research and wanted to try most things before deciding exactly which route and scope would be best for me (and that's if you stick with it, late cold nights outside do put people off!).

Long story short I decided to go for a second hand scope with a dobsonian mount.

My reasons - well I want to learn the sky but ultimately wanted a goto scope as I have two young children and viewing time will be limited. I figured a second hand Dob would be the best way to learn getting around the sky and would have the least loss financially (if at all) when I come to upgrade/change. Also this would allow me to buy some good eyepieces and associated gear that I could take with me to an upgraded scope. With the dob I can learn collimation and it is still quick to get out of the garage and start exploring the sky and also has huge bang for the buck when it comes to viewing pretty much anything. I can then spend good money on my next scope.

I went for a Skywatcher 250Px flex tube second hand from Ebay which I am delighted with. Don't let the nudging required of a dobsonian mount put you off it really is a non issue and setup is instant. At the moment I am swinging towards planetary viewing as my most preferred so may change to a tracking Cassegrain in a couple of years but I am very happy right now. I would highly recommend a used 200/250 dobsonian scope to start with.

[Mr Spock]

If I was starting from nothing with £800, I would go for a 10" dob http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-250px-dobsonian.html 

At £435 it would leave enough for some decent eyepieces. Eyepieces can radically affect your enjoyment of the scope - the eyepieces which come with the scope aren't the last word in quality and can lead to disappointment.

[brrttpaul]

Im in the same sort of boat also, I will have about £800- £1000 come April , think i am set on a HEQ5 mount with syncscan (still trying to work out the difference with that and goto and the other one). The only difference for me is I will want to image so looking at refractors mainly skywatcher ones. If anyone has any recomendations and if I acctually need the syncscan I appreciate that

[SnakeyJ]

I started on a sh heq5 and 200p, with lots of extras for £725. It's useable for guided DSO, with an 1100d and coma corrector - enough to cut your teeth and get some decent pictures. But pushing the mounts limits and wants careful balancing. It's a very good start for planetry imaging. For deepsky only the 130p-ds scopes are doing some amazing images, and would be a good match for an heq5.

[oldannie]

Another option to consider is to just start off with a decent mount like the HEQ5 Pro Synscan, (just a little over your budget) use your Canon DSLR plus any lenses you have and think about a scope later though I guess that may depend on what lenses you have.

All the best with your search.

Annie

[K3VBAK3R]

Thanks for all the advice guys.  It certainly isn't an easy decision choosing but at some point I need to stop "chasing" the perfect scope as I will never get there.  I've stumbled across the Revelation Dobs over at Telescope House and am impressed by their  price, as well as the reviews they seen to have gotten (particularly the 12") from numerous folk who have, or still, own one.  All fit comfortably in budget and leave me plenty for some upgrades.  The 12" is a monster and is first choice (obviously) but:

1.  Is this too big as a first scope (specifically with the collimation challenges larger Dobs can present)

2.  Can I do some form of imaging with it, obviously short exposure?

Revelation 8" Dob (275 gbp)

http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Revelation-8---F-6-M-CRF-Premium-Dobsonian--White--2.html

Revelation 10" Dob (399 gbp)

http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Revelation-10---F-5-M-CRF-Premium-Dobsonian--White--2-1.html

Revelation 12" Dob (550 gbp)

http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Revelation-12---F-5-M-CRF-Premium-Dobsonian--White--2-1.html

So, if I chose one of the scopes above I was looking at also purchasing the following. Any thoughts would be appreciated as to alternate accessories, thoughts on quality and if I am making a wise decision

Revelation Eyepiece Kit (special) (£100)

http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Revelation-Eyepiece-Kit-Megadeal.html

included is:

9mm, 12mm, 15mm, 20mm, 32mm Plossl's

x2 Barlow

T Adaptor 1.25"

ND96 Moon Filter

No. 11 Yellow Green

No. 25A Red

No. 47 Violet

No. 82A Light Blue

Lockable Case

Finder (£40)

http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Telrad_Red_Dot_Finder.html

Collimator (£36)

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/premium-cheshire-collimating-eyepiece.html

Total cost would come to:

8" bundle = £451

10" bundle = £575

12" bundle = £726

Any thoughts would be appreciated guys.  I would love to be able to afford the 200p-ds on HEQ5 Goto mount but it's not going to happen financially :-(

Thanks

Kev

[xs2man]

I bought that EP kit, although I bought it labelled as a photo-visual kit, which is exactly the same, from the same place, for £20 more.  D'oh.  It is a pretty decent kit though for getting started.  Gives a nice amount of EP's for you to try out on different objects.  But it doesn't include a T-ring for your camera, something you will need.  And it also doesn't include a Projection Camera Adapter, which you would need if you want to use any EP's for magnification while imaging (for planets for example).

From what I can gather, Dob's really aren't great for imaging, which is why I haven't looked at them for my budget.  While it's probably not going to be the thing I do most, imaging is something I do plan on trying to do lots of.  So I wanted a set-up that will work for this.

If I was going to go down the Dob route, it would take a HUGE amount of effort for me NOT to go for something like this : http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=92279  To me it would tick all the boxes, but then it is right at your budget.  But I'm quite sure it would easily surpass the quality of the Dobs you have listed.

The problem with "settling" for a Dob set-up, is that if you want to get more into the imaging in the future, you're pretty much starting from scratch again.  At least if you go for a quality mount, and smaller scope, the option to upgrade the scope in the future is cheaper than going out and buying everything again.  

Keep an eye on the classifieds.  There has been more than one EQ6 around the £500 mark recently, which just leaves enough room in your budget for a new SW 200p-ds.

[Pompey Monkey]

One other thing thing to consider is getting the 'scope in your car. I have just bought a 10" revelation dob, with some perfectly good eyepieces thrown in, s/h for £210  and the tube just about fits across the back seat of my car (a popular family hatchback). The mount and observing chair go in the boot. This leaves just room for me and one other to get to a decent dark sky site. I think you'd need an estate car for a twelve inch dob.

Believe me, a good dark sky is the best "accessory" your telescope could possibly have!

[esxste]

Avoid Dobsonian mounts if your intend to do any imaging. It's possible, but you're limiting yourself to short exposures. Same with Alt-Az mounts. 

If you've waited 2 years to save up £800, I urge you to continue saving for a few months more, and invest in a decent mount. I was bought a Skywatcher 130n on an EQ2 mount, and that got me hooked. I then stupidly bought a Skywatcher 200p on an EQ5. The EQ5 mount wasn't suitable for my needs, as like you I wanted to dabble in astrophotography. I've since upgraded again to the Celestron AVX. The AVX is amazing, but I feel like I am pushing its limits with the 200p. The 200P is a great scope though! 

So I'm on my third mount, and I've wasted money. If I went back a year, I'd choose to save my money and invest in the mount first. If taking pictures is what you want to do, beware aperture fever! Don't think you need the biggest and best telescope; you don't. The Celestron C6N that can come bundled with the AVX or the Skywatcher 130PDS might suit your needs perfectly as a cheap(ish) reflector to get you started. You can always upgrade the telescope in the years to come. 

In summary, my advice is, think about what mount you want first; then look at scopes. Spend your money wisely

[Astro_Baby]

I think if you have any astro imaging intentions you need to get the mount right at the jump.  Bear in mind scopes can be relatively cheap compared to the mount - ie a few hundred quid for a newt, same for an achro refractor, maybe 300 quid for a big Maksutov (APOs come in a lot dearer) but a mount is going to come in at anywhere between £500  - £1000 depending on what you buy and whether you buy new or 2nd hand.

With that said I have no idea what your financial situation is and if you are anxious to at least make a start in astronomy, at the loss of astro imaging,a 2nd hand 200P on an HEQ5 should fit the budget and would at least give you a base on which to build.  The 200P is a bulky beast and the HEQ5 is really at its limit with the 200P on board.  Its not the weight so much as the bulk.  Bear in mind cameras add extra weight and imaging is all about a steady mount and less about a giant telescope. But you could kick off with a 200/HEQ5 for visual, probably do a bit of webcamming with it at least and then perhaps buy a smaller scope for the full on imaging later which might not run too expensive.  Alternately you could just bung your camera atop the HEQ5 for widefield stuff and at least make a start that way.

Only you can decide how important the imaging is, it may be you are on too tight a budget for imaging - I cant comments, but whatever you buy there will be inevitable extras.  If you max out your budget on day 1 and then find you are unhappy with some aspect you perhaps wont have funds to do much which could be depressing if you have all the money tied up and have not good enough EPs for visual and not enough hardware for imaging either. If imaging is where you really want to go I would definitely avoid a Dob......it wont allow imaging and more crucially you will gain no experience of at least the basics of an EQ mount which will be crucial for imaging later on.

I know the imagers might disagree but I wonder if the budget is too restrictive for imaging at all to be honest and by trying to do too much too soon you may end up quitting altogether before you even get started.

Before spending any cash though I would wait for a Star Party and get round people and equipment and see what you think based on kit in the field.  Its awfully tough trying to do it off the web because the options are so many and so varied and trying to go visual and imaging is rather like saying you want a car which is cheap to run  to go to Tescos and take the kids to school in but can also cut it for off roading and rallying.

[xs2man]

trying to go visual and imaging is rather like saying you want a car which is cheap to run  to go to Tescos and take the kids to school in but can also cut it for off roading and rallying.

That'll be the Polo R then if the last few seasons of WRC are anything to go by 

[xs2man]

BTW, like I said, I have a similar budget to yourself.  But I have just pulled the trigger on my purchases.

I picked up a second hand NEQ6 for £500 and a SW 130p-ds for a further £100.  So £600 total.  I also have the Revelation EP set (£100), T-rings for camera (£13) and a Projection Camera Adaptor (£16).  I also purchased a Right Angled Finderscope (£36) and a Halfords Power Pack thing (£40).  All in all, it was kicking around your £800 budget.  Sure, the scope could be bigger, but look at some of the results achieved on here with that exact scope, I'm sure it will be up to the job until I have the funds for a 8" or 10" Orion Optics scope.

[Koje]

Lots of good sound advice but I am going to run against the grain a little.

Even though your ultimate goal is astrophotography I would still start with a dosonian (which I did) Why? Because it is a cheap start and you can spend time learning the skies, collimation, buying eyepieces etc....  this is all critical learning before starting to take pictures.

When you are then happy you will stay with it and want to progress then spend good money on a mount, if you get a 10" reflector dob you can just buy a good mount and move the scope over.

Its not an easy decision