Need help with my step by step instructions please

[ianpwilliams]

I don't know if I trust my drilling abilities to be honest, especially into concrete and at an angle!

[happy-kat]

If you have to paint then buy the smallest pot of an oil based paint like a gloss paint or even a bit off a modeling enamel paint. Won't need much.

Wax crayon can last quite long to or even try your mail varnish as you have that right now and is free.

[ianpwilliams]

Never considered the nail varnish option (even though I was planning on using that to mark the weight bar). Although maybe that would get washed away by the rain too. Some DIY shops have small tester pots of paint, so I was planning on getting some white masonry paint in one of those. So that should definitely do the trick.

So glad I realigned the reticule though. Such a great feeling when the top of the distant aerial stayed in the crosshair when rotating the RA, and also stayed on the edge of the circle. If I can realign the reticule then I can do all the other stuff!

[carastro]

fetching shade of my wife's pink nail varnish

Lol. i thought it was only us girls that did things like that.

Ian, before I had my obsy, I marked the patio using tippex, and it lasted for quite some time before it wore off.  You can always "top it up" from time to time, but the nail varnish idea sounds good, but nail varnish chips off fingernails, so might need a refresh now and then.

Sounds like you're getting there, can't wait to see the post that you have managed to polar align successfully.

Carole 

[ianpwilliams]

Yeah I can't wait either!

I've got a lot done today though - made the slabs as sturdy as possible, levelled the mount, marked circles where the feet were (I'll keep the legs the same length), balanced the scope across RA and DEC, and marked the weight bar and the dovetail. There's nail polish all over the place! I also attempted to set the altitude using an inclinometer on my iPod, and I'm fairly confident I have it close (I'm also fairly confident that the dial is way out!).

I'm just hoping that my tripod was pointing specifically enough to North, because it was daytime so there was no Polaris to check it against. My compass seemed to agree with the orientation, but we'll see! It's supposed to be partly cloudy tonight, so hopefully I can quickly get out there with the tripod and mount, make sure that the tripod is pointing the right way, and hopefully also see Polaris through the polar scope.

[Owmuchonomy]

You will find when it is dark that Polaris is some distance from magnetic north. Mark you leg position next time you are Polar aligned rather than with a compass. I painted dots on my patio with Farrow and Ball paint to ensure it met the standards of my other half. For the lawn I used large screws to fix 3 green plastic milk bottle tops upside down. This enabled resiting in two locations with the bonus I could mow over the top.

[ianpwilliams]

Another session done and I feel another step closer, although I'm still not quite there.

I set up the tripod where my marks were, and thankfully the tripod was facing Polaris. So then I mounted the telescope, and started increasing the altitude using the Alt bolts. As before, I was struggling to see anything, and I was having to keep on tilting pretty much as far as I could go. But eventually I could see a loan star, which I'm pretty sure was Polaris. So I managed to get it centred on the crosshair in the illuminated polar scope. But then I hit my first snag. I didn't know where Polaris was supposed to be, as I hadn't printed a Polar Finder sheet, and I couldn't work out what that PolarFinder app was trying to tell me.

As it happened though, I had another problem anyway, which was that I couldn't get the mount to turn left and right, because the Az bolts were just getting stuck, as if they were all the way in, which they weren't. Which was odd because they worked fine the other day when I was aligning the reticule in my flat. Does anyone know what might have caused this? Could it have been the cold or something? And could I buy better replacement Az bolts from somewhere, maybe some that could give me more leverage, rather than those horrible little wheels that hurt your hands?

Anyway, at that point I gave up on the polar alignment bit, not least because the moon had made an appearance, and I wanted to get a shot of it, which meant carrying the mount across the garden so the nearby tree wasn't in the way. But apart from anything I now hopefully have a setup which is north-facing, level, balanced, and the right mount elevation for Polaris.

I manually pointed the mount at the moon, and put the camera in live view, but I couldn't get focus, so I tried my 28mm eyepiece. I couldn't get focus through that either, and I was turning the focus knobs but nothing was happening, until I eventually realised that I needed to loosen the screw on the focuser! So I did that, and then eventually discovered that the eyepiece needed to be further away from the tube, so I secured it in place halfway out. Then hey presto! A nice clear view of the moon, craters and all! So then I tried the camera, and suddenly focusing was easy with that. So I took loads of photos of the moon using Live View to preview, and zoomed-in Live View to focus as best I could. I also tried various ISO settings, quickly discovering that anyting above 100 was pretty pointless, and even a couple of longer exposures, but that was fruitless as well (apart from one crazy shot which ended up looking a bit SciFi). I want to compare the JPEGs with the RAWs first, and maybe process them a bit too, but photos will follow!

I also temporarily lost one of the screws which hold the eyepiece/camera in place, as it fell on the ground when I loosened it too much, and I couldn't find it anywhere, but then just before I finished for the night I managed to find it among the endless dew on the grass, which was a miracle, so all in all I consider that a good sesssion.

But yeah, any suggestions regarding the Az bolts would be good, because that seems to be the only thing stopping me from getting polar aligned and getting properly up and running.

[carastro]

That's very odd with the Alt/Az bolts, I can't think what can have caused that.  I presume you have the HEQ5 which has a fixed AltAz rod which the screws push against.  I had a mount once which had an unscrewable rod, and the effect you are getting is as if the rod is absent.  I suppose if they are bent they could be "missing" the rod.

You can get replacement Alt/Az bolts as well i believe.

Carole

[ianpwilliams]

Yes it is strange, not least because generally speaking then seem to work ok. It was only once I was out there and set up (when I really needed them) that they were misbehaving. I've already ordered the replacement front and back altitude bolts, so I'm thinking that if I could also get some replacement azimuth side bolts with better grips, then hopefully they would make life easier. I'll have to have a look online.

[Thalestris24]

Hi Ian

Might you have overtightened the central bolt? You did have the az bolts slackened right off when you placed the mount? It's a good idea to check the az bolts can move the mount smoothly after putting it in place and tightening the central bolt. I've found it tricky getting the central bolt to properly mate and screw in the base of the mount. Always loosen one az bolt before tightening the other... Same as with alt adjustments

Louise

[ianpwilliams]

Hi Ian

Might you have overtightened the central bolt? You did have the az bolts slackened right off when you placed the mount? It's a good idea to check the az bolts can move the mount smoothly after putting it in place and tightening the central bolt. I've found it tricky getting the central bolt to properly mate and screw in the base of the mount. Always loosen one az bolt before tightening the other... Same as with alt adjustments

Louise

You may well be right, I'll check when I get home.

I also need to look at my moon RAWs in comparison to my JPEGs. Would it be worth stacking my RAWs do you think? I only took three shots for each setting (10 sec delay, then three subs with a 5 sec delay in between), and I tried different ISO settings, which produced various levels of brightness. So I wondered if it might be worth stacking the three subs from my favourite ISO batch, or maybe even from multiple ISO batches?

[ianpwilliams]

I think you were right Louise. I loosened the central bolt a tad, and the Az bolts seem to be working. The left one is still stiff though, I have to reach round and turn it with my right hand with quite a lot of effort, but as long as I can turn the mount for polar alignment then that's fine.

As for the moon shots, I'll create a new thread in the imaging section regarding stacking etc, as it's a bit off-topic.

I will have a question here though once I've had a look at my mount, regarding the Polar Finder we mentioned earlier (the printout one, not the app, and the RA clock on the mount (I've decided to try and polar align using the m37 quote from earlier).

[Thalestris24]

I think you were right Louise. I loosened the central bolt a tad, and the Az bolts seem to be working. The left one is still stiff though, I have to reach round and turn it with my right hand with quite a lot of effort, but as long as I can turn the mount for polar alignment then that's fine.

As for the moon shots, I'll create a new thread in the imaging section regarding stacking etc, as it's a bit off-topic.

I will have a question here though once I've had a look at my mount, regarding the Polar Finder we mentioned earlier (the printout one, not the app, and the RA clock on the mount (I've decided to try and polar align using the m37 quote from earlier).

Hope you haven't bent it! Um, at some point, it's worth getting into software control and doing drift alignment with, say, PHD2. You can forget about using a polarscope and also forget about Polaris then. Well, that's providing you can see South, and East or West. Once it's installed, configured and up and running, Astrotortilla makes life a lot easier

Louise

[ianpwilliams]

I'd be happy to try drift aligning with software, but I heard that you have to be able to see the horizon in two directions or something, which I could never do un my garden!

[Thalestris24]

Hi

You need to be able to see roughly South at an altitude of about 30 deg. Similarly roughly East or West.

Louise

[ianpwilliams]

That might be doable.

[ianpwilliams]

Almost right.

But you will need to adjust the front and back altitude/latitude bolts as well as the Alt/AZ bolts to get polaris into the little circle, that's why it's important to get those bolts sorted.  This is why the dial on the side is not that important as it's only a guide.

I have not seen that version of polarfinder before and I am not sure it will be quite so easy to work out where to place the little circle with that guide.

This one is much easier.  So for example at 00.51 you would need to rotate your RA until the little circle is in the 9 o'oclock position.  At 22.51 it would be at the 47 minutes past the hour position etc etc.

I never use the setting circle dials any-more because they used to slip.  

Can't currently find the download for this I got it from Astronomyshed site, but every time I google polarfinder I come up with a different version of it.

Maybe some-one on here has the link. 

Ah, this might be it:

http://myastroimages.com/Polar_FinderScope_by_Jason_Dale/

Carole 

I wondered if it would be worth trying the m37 PA method, along with the Polar Finder above, if only because I doubt I would be very accurate getting the small circle in the right place in the polar scope, as there are no lines line there are in the diagrams. So I considered maybe trying to use the RA clock on the mount as per the instructions. So in this example (22:51, 47 minutes past the hour), assuming I started at 0, presumably that would put me at one mark past 18 (as the dial goes from 0 to 24, with one mark being 2 minutes)?

[ianpwilliams]

Also, assuming I manage to get up and running tomorrow night (clear skies are forecast), what would be suggested sub lengths for M31 unguided? Maybe 10 or 20 30-second subs? Or 10 60-second subs? And how many darks? Would have the number of darks be ok do you think? I won't be able to spend all night on it because I'll have work the next morning, so I'll need to plan ahead as much as possible.

[ianpwilliams]

I'll post a separate thread about the subs.

[Davey-T]

I wondered if it would be worth trying the m37 PA method, along with the Polar Finder above, if only because I doubt I would be very accurate getting the small circle in the right place in the polar scope, as there are no lines line there are in the diagrams. So I considered maybe trying to use the RA clock on the mount as per the instructions. So in this example (22:51, 47 minutes past the hour), assuming I started at 0, presumably that would put me at one mark past 18 (as the dial goes from 0 to 24, with one mark being 2 minutes)?

I thought one mark was 10 mins.

Dave

[ianpwilliams]

You're right! See, I'm useless when it comes to the dials. Although they do have a tendency to slip anyway. The only reason I was considering trying to use that one (just for the bit where you rotate the circle to the right place), is because I reckon I could end up being quite far out if I had to guess where the circle in the polar scope should be in relation to the Polar Finder printout. But maybe it won't be so bad. It seems that it is supposed to be rough after all, with the HEQ5 polar alignment utilities doing the fine tuning. I just wish the polar scope had the same marks around the outer circle as the Polar Finder printout has, for easier accuracy. It does have the constellations though, which might also help a bit.

[Davey-T]

You can do a pretty good guesstimate and stick it on the circle, so if it looks like it's between 6oclock and 7oclock you can guess it, plenty close enough for visual, given the mechanical limitations of the mount if you want to image you'll probably need to drift align anyway

I'd ignore the constellation marks.

Dave

[ianpwilliams]

Ok problem #1. I've polar aligned by eye, but when I run the polar align utility it points the scope at completely the wrong place. I tested GOTO with the moon, which is behind me to the south and its pointing the scope North. Any ideas?

[ianpwilliams]

Ah well, another failure! I'm fairly confident that I did actually manage to polar align this time, getting Polaris on the crosshairs, then the top of the circle, then rotating the RA to roughly the correct position, then moving Polaris to the small circle.

I must have gone wrong by not having the mount in the home position when switching on the mount, because it was pointing the scope in completely the wrong directions. So I moved everything to the home position and switched the mount off and on.

I then tried a 3-star alignment, choosing Vega, and the scope was close. But then I had to get Vega onto the crosshairs using the handset. I was able to go up and down, but I wasn't able to go left and right, which I needed to do. Shouldn't the left and right have worked?

So I don't know really. Anyone got any advice for the next attempt?

[carastro]

Shouldn't the left and right have worked?

Yes, the mount should go up and down and left and right, but of course with an equatorial mount it is much more angled (if you know what I mean).  

I don;t think it matters not having the mount in the home position when you switch on as I often switch the mount on to see through the polar scope and all I do then is move the counterweight and scopes manually into the home position before I start the alignment procedure.  

It is possible that the scope was moving left and right but was so slow you weren't aware of it.  try increasing the speed by pressing 2 and then 9 this should adjust to the fastest speed, and just press it for a second or two just to prove the point.  I sometimes think mine isn't moving when it is.  Then change to a smaller slew speed as you get close to your object/star.

Carole