Upgrading my scope

[njz9046]

Hi, 

I currently have a 80mm Sky-Watcher Refractor telescope which i think i have reached the useable limits of, im looking at upgrading now and have been made aware that il get alot more viewing pleasure from my money with a reflector, my issue is the horror stories involving 'Collimation' , now to be honest im quite impatient with most things therefore dont want to be immediately be put off my new telescope because i cant set it up!

Thats the reason i originally bought a refractor ( i did a fair bit of research before this) i have been using it for just under a year so now have an ok knowledge of the night sky so feel it is time to move on, i will keep my current scope for sighting and travel.

i have been looking at the Celestron Omni XLT 150 ( http://www.firstlightoptics.com/omni-xlt-series/celestron-omni-xlt-150.html ) as it looks like it has a steady mount and seems like a rugged scope, i dont think i want a 'GO-TO' scope as i personally think that takes a lot of the fun out of exploring the night sky and gaining Knowledge.

What other suggestions do people have for scope i should look at, id like to make an informed decision and would like it to last me a couple of years before i need to think about upgrading again. I have around £350 to spend which i know wont get me an incredible scope but i want to leave myself room to upgrade in the future, However i could spend more for the right scope.

Any suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated,

Many Thanks,

Nick 

[swamp thing]

Hi Nick

I hate to recommend the same old thing but.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

This is what I'd recommend with your budget. Dobs are super stable, easy to use and return the best views per pound outlay you can get.

[njz9046]

Thankyou for your advice, i did look at this one actually, i also forgot to mention that i might be intrested in astro-Photography with my Cannon eon 7D in the future and have seen that very few pictures are taken using a dobsonian as its alot more difficult (correct me if im wrong as i am a beginner) 

[swamp thing]

Aah! Righty ho scratch my suggestion them dobs reek at imaging.

I don't do imaging myself so I'll not try and advise you further, except DONT BUY THE DOB

[njz9046]

haha, cheers for the honesty, i just noticed that the scope you recommend does have a direct SLR camera connection ..... surely they wouldnt put that on there if it was useless or could it just be a gimmick?  

[John]

haha, cheers for the honesty, i just noticed that the scope you recommend does have a direct SLR camera connection ..... surely they wouldnt put that on there if it was useless or could it just be a gimmick?  

You can connect the camera but, apart from lunar snapshots, the non-tracking alt-azimuth dob mount is not suitable for photography.

Personally I'd forget imaging and still get the 200P dob as it's the best "bang for your buck" you can get for visual.

Imaging has so many unique requirements that I think it needs to be approached as a separate purchasing project altogether.

That said, you could put the dob tube onto a sturdy equatorial mount at some point in the future and use it for imaging.

[baggywrinkle]

I have seen many people collimate these without too many issues. 1st time around is always a learning curve but once done you should be fine.

It will certainly reveal more that the exisiting 80mm. The max potential magnification would be around 300x.

I would change the finder for a RACI or even a RACI combined with an RDF. The straight through finder on it looks like a 6x30. I had one on my 9.25 SCT and it was not very useful. I went for a 9x50 RACI.

The RACI would allow you an easier view and not have to perform yoga and ninja moves to look through it comfortably.

[kalasinman]

I believe in the 1k quid price range, the MN190 would be my choice  http://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov-newtonian/skywatcher-explorer-190mn-ds-pro-mak-newt-astrograph.html

-Jack

[NGC 1502]

Hi, 

I currently have a 80mm Sky-Watcher Refractor telescope which i think i have reached the useable limits of, im looking at upgrading now and have been made aware that il get alot more viewing pleasure from my money with a reflector, my issue is the horror stories involving 'Collimation' , now to be honest im quite impatient with most things therefore dont want to be immediately be put off my new telescope because i cant set it up!

Thats the reason i originally bought a refractor ( i did a fair bit of research before this) i have been using it for just under a year so now have an ok knowledge of the night sky so feel it is time to move on, i will keep my current scope for sighting and travel.

i have been looking at the Celestron Omni XLT 150 ( http://www.firstlightoptics.com/omni-xlt-series/celestron-omni-xlt-150.html ) as it looks like it has a steady mount and seems like a rugged scope, i dont think i want a 'GO-TO' scope as i personally think that takes a lot of the fun out of exploring the night sky and gaining Knowledge.

What other suggestions do people have for scope i should look at, id like to make an informed decision and would like it to last me a couple of years before i need to think about upgrading again. I have around £350 to spend which i know wont get me an incredible scope but i want to leave myself room to upgrade in the future, However i could spend more for the right scope.

Any suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated,

Many Thanks,

Nick 

Hi Nick, you have some good advice above. Hope you don't mind the following comments -

Your 80mm refractor - "I  think I have reached the usable limits" well now, very few of us (including me) will ever reach the limits of what a small telescope will reveal 

And - " I have around £350 to spend which I know won't get me an incredible scope "  but it will  so much to see that it would take a lifetime and more to exhaust the possibilities.

All meant as friendly advice   Ed.

[esxste]

The problem with asking for opinions is that no-one else knows your mind, and what you personally think is worth your money. 

A dobsonian will give you far better visual views than an equally priced telescope on an EQ mount. The downside is your ability to take decent pictures with your DSLR is compromised. The inability of dobsonian mounts to track will limit the length of your exposures, meaning less light, and hence detail will come through. That might be a compromise you're willing to make. 

An alternative you have is to buy yourself a decent used/second hand motorised EQ mount, (one with GOTO would be better IMO)  and put your existing refractor on it, attach your DSLR and get into Astro Photography that way.  If you feel you still need a better telescope, you have a decent mount ready for it. 

[kalasinman]

If your budget is 350BP, look at this dor 310BP

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-200p-ds-ota.html

[kalasinman]

Making decent pictures requires a very good mount. If you really want to take pictures, spend your 350 on a capable mount, and put the 80mm on it for now.

[Robp]

My suggestion would be to not upgrade your scope and buy Every photon counts and have a read:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

I started off Like yourself with a small scope and wanted to get into astrophotography. It's quite hard to do on a budget so I built my kit up in stages.

My first step I purchased a second hand EQ5 (no motors) and SW 200p for £280. I used this to image planets and the Moon with a  webcam and laptop I had lying around at home and by manually tracking the target. This was okay, the images weren't great and it was a pain to have to manually track the object but it worked.

My next purchase was a more dedicated planetary cam. Again with a low budget I opted for the QHY5l-ii colour which is under £200 new. This improved the quality of my images greatly, but I still tracked the target manually. I also intended to use this as a guide cam once I moved into DSO photography.

My next purchase was going to be motors for my EQ5 but I decided not to do that and ended up saving up for a HEQ5. I purchased this for £550 second hand.

I then purchased a scope more suited for DSO work and ended up buying a second hand 130p-DS

Again its not the best item for the job, but small budgets require compromises to be made.

My last purchase was a Canon 1100D to be used for DSO work and terrestrial photography. Its not modded and isn't going to be. Although its early days in my DSO photography i'm very happy with the results so far.

Now I understand that everyone is different and this is what worked for me. I built the kit up over a period of around three years, so I was able to learn how to use each piece of kit before purchasing the next one.

If I were to start all over again using the knowledge I have now the only difference I would make would be to buy a second hand HEQ5 first and get a 200P-DS second instead of a EQ5/200P.

TL:DR

I'd say no to a scope and save a little more money for a second hand HEQ5. This would provide you with a solid base from which to build upon with future purchases. If you really need to upgrade your scope then I can only say the EQ5 and 200p is an excellent, cost effective choice if your willing to purchase second hand.

Apologies for the long post

[Lowjiber]

I have an Omni XLT 150 on a CG-4 mount.  Here are a few comments...

Mount:  I actually have two CG-4 mounts.  They are very nice, moderately priced mounts.  They accept a polar alignment scope, and the stainless steel legs provide quite a bit of stability.  I've found that small vibrations can be modulated to about one second by doing three things...

1. Fully retract the legs, except for what's necessary to level the mount.
2. Add an Orion (yes, Orion) 16" pier extension between the tripod and the mount... it bolts right up without any modification.  This accomodates the shortening of the legs while adding forteen pounds to the entire rig.
3. Put a set of vibration dampers under the legs.

Scope:  Like all short focal length Newts, it is really touchy to good collimation.  However, the collimation process is particularly easy if one is familiar with the process.  Because it is very fast (f/5) it really needs multi-lens, multi-staged eyepieces to perform as designed.  I use Baader Hyperions and ES eyepieces and the views (XLT coatings are that way) are very bright to the point of being extraordinary.  You'll experience a bit of coma at higher magnifications, but that's more a function of fast Newts than a bad mark against the scope... I use a Baader Coma Corrector.

Focuser:  The 2" Crayford is very smooth.  However, it's only a single-speed.  I use a Baader Helical Focuser to provide "fine adjustment" beyond what the single-speed focuser can offer.  I would ordinarily just replace the focuser with a two-speed version, but the particular adapter plate configuration makes such a modification more trouble than it is worth.

RACI?: Yes, add one.  I use a standard GSO 8x50 RACI.  No more neck issues.

Hope this helped somewhat.

Clear Skies

[njz9046]

Thank you so much everyone for your great advice, I think I'm going to buy the dob, then slowly build up a seller are Newtonian to use with my dslr.

What is the collimation like on the dob (bearing in mind I have never attempted it before)?

[scarp15]

Thank you so much everyone for your great advice, I think I'm going to buy the dob, then slowly build up a seller are Newtonian to use with my dslr.

What is the collimation like on the dob (bearing in mind I have never attempted it before)?

Collimation can quickly become a doddle. Go with the dob, set up your DSLR on a camera tripod for wide field nightscape exposures. Then take time to consider where you want to go with imaging, remembering as others have pointed out, that much can be obtained second hand. A helpful route might be to join / attend a local astro club meet or get to a star party as, at least in my experience, a majority are interested in varied capacity, in imaging set ups. Never the less, keep the dob as it ought to receive much long term and dependable use. 

[Lowjiber]

Thank you so much everyone for your great advice, I think I'm going to buy the dob, then slowly build up a seller are Newtonian to use with my dslr.

What is the collimation like on the dob (bearing in mind I have never attempted it before)?

Dobs are generally very easy to collimate with either a laser or Cheshire eyepiece.  I usually wait until my 10" Dob reaches ambient temperature, as there is often a slight variation as it cools/warms up... not much, but why not get it perfect?

Astro Baby's guide is very thorough and I consider it "the bible" of collimation.  However, there are tons of videos around on the process.

http://www.astro-baby.com/collimation/astro%20babys%20collimation%20guide.htm

Just make sure to check/adjust the collimation of your laser before the first use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE09_X43UUQ

Clear Skies

[esxste]

Thank you so much everyone for your great advice, I think I'm going to buy the dob, then slowly build up a seller are Newtonian to use with my dslr.

What is the collimation like on the dob (bearing in mind I have never attempted it before)?

I'd like to check that you know the difference between the terms Newtonian and Dobsonian;  

"Dobsonian" refers to the mount

"Newtonian" refers to the type of reflecting telescope. 

Dobsonian mounts are typically used to mount large Newtonian telescopes for visual observation. 

To do effective astrophotography with a telescope, you will need a computerised or motorised German Equatorial Mount

I'm not suggesting any particular course of action here, I just want to make sure you understand the jargon before you spend your hard earned cash

[Charic]

The problem with asking for opinions is that no-one else knows your mind, and what you personally think is worth your money. 

A dobsonian will give you far better visual views than an equally priced telescope on an EQ mount. The downside is your ability to take decent pictures with your DSLR is compromised. The inability of dobsonian mounts to track will limit the length of your exposures, meaning less light, and hence detail will come through. That might be a compromise you're willing to make. 

An alternative you have is to buy yourself a decent used/second hand motorised EQ mount, (one with GOTO would be better IMO)  and put your existing refractor on it, attach your DSLR and get into Astro Photography that way.  If you feel you still need a better telescope, you have a decent mount ready for it. 

So My Skyliner 200P  gives better visual views than the Explorer 200P? Not quite! .....remember a Dobsonian doesn't give any views at all. A Dobsonian is just a name for a simple, cheap and effective mounting system,  Take the mounts away and your left with almost identical telescopes, in this case, the focal length is shorter for the EQ  Explorer, but effectively the same telescope. But your right in the fact that this simple but effective system is, in general, not the best suited for astrophotography. I'm sure it was not your intention, and I hope you don't take offence at me raising this point,  but  telescopes  as still being described as Reflectors, Refractors and Dobsonians ?  Just wanting to make the point clear for beginners.

NOTE: #18 wasn't visible when I typed this. Like I said, not complaining at you, just helping to make clear, but reading #18 you are clear

[swamp thing]

Thank you so much everyone for your great advice, I think I'm going to buy the dob,

My work here is done. I sow the seed..................

[estwing]

you wont regret it...

[Charic]

Dobs are generally very easy to collimate with either a laser or Cheshire eyepiece.  I usually wait until my 10" Dob reaches ambient temperature, as there is often a slight variation as it cools/warms up... not much, but why not get it perfect?

Astro Baby's guide is very thorough and I consider it "the bible" of collimation.  However, there are tons of videos around on the process.

http://www.astro-baby.com/collimation/astro%20babys%20collimation%20guide.htm

Just make sure to check/adjust the collimation of your laser before the first use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE09_X43UUQ

Clear Skies

I like your train of thought here. I generally collimate during the day and find its ok in use at night without further adjustment. However, If I followed your advice and collimated at night after the cooling period, then maybe, just maybe, it could be just that  little bit  better. Who knows? But then  when I check again during the Day, after warm-up, it appears  slightly out a bit, and I need to fiddle with it again. This is going to be a catch-22 situation. Without precise, concise technical setting up equipment, collimation will always be an individual thing, and only the user can be satisfied with the result. Interesting though.

[esxste]

So My Skyliner 200P gives better visual views than the Explorer 200P? Not quite! .....remember a Dobsonian doesn't give any views at all. A Dobsonian is just a name for a simple, cheap and effective mounting system, Take the mounts away and your left with almost identical telescopes, in this case, the focal length is shorter for the EQ Explorer, but effectively the same telescope. But your right in the fact that this simple but effective system is, in general, not the best suited for astrophotography. I'm sure it was not your intention, and I hope you don't take offence at me raising this point, but telescopes as still being described as Reflectors, Refractors and Dobsonians ? Just wanting to make the point clear for beginners.

NOTE: #18 wasn't visible when I typed this. Like I said, not complaining at you, just helping to make clear, but reading #18 you are clear

Indeed, sometimes we need to remember to be clear about the assumptions we make when using jargon.