Oh dear..is this the end of my astronomy? (PART 2 )

[ChrisLX200]

Anthony kindly sent me few shots of the shields fitted in to his village street lights...this is the kind shield I had in  mind when I contacted the council.

By the way, if you never saw Ant, here's his finger on top of the photo. One bit at a time...

Thanks, Ant!

Those are great pictures - exactly what I need I think. Thanks Ant!

ChrisH

This is my 'problem' light - the new one is taller than the old next to it.

[Davey-T]

You're obviously already spoilt with all those dark skies Chris, I'm in the cosy glow of SE London so one more street light more or less doesn't notice, I just want shorter ones .

Dave 

[DaveS]

Interestingly, as the local council's been replacing the streetlights along a local major-ish road the new lamp-heads are just fitted on the old standards. No extra height at all. The cut-off appears to be much better. The new LED lamps along a section of the A40 are also the same height, with better cut off.

Mind you, our local HP sodium lamps are very nearly full cut off. It's not so much the lamp as the housing it's in, though making LEDs full cut off is easier optically as the LEDs are very nearly point sources.

[emadmoussa]

Funny, I found this in the mail box  an hour ago...You could imagine what kind of review I left.

[Davey-T]

Pity they don't do a survey before they start 

Dave

[IanWatkins]

If it is of any use, after 4.5 years of letters, emails, phone calls, visits from the council etc., I finally had a light post alongside my garden lowered, shielded and converted to LED. The shield is so good it lights the car park/cul de sac it was put in for perfectly without any spill across the boundary.

I took the attitude from day one that I would only get anywhere by being nice, being polite and being prepared to compromise. My neighbours in the cul de sac are also very happy as the light doesn't flood their bedrooms anymore either.

The clincher for the council was that their street light was affecting my ability to enjoy my private property. There is apparently a legal precedent on those grounds but I didn't want to get that far.

I'm very happy and glad I stuck with it.

Cheers

Ian

[ChrisLX200]

Good advice Ian. The council workers are only human and like to be treated that way, I know in their position if faced by a grumpy resident making vociferous demands I would be less helpul. A reasoned approach offering examples of precedent are perhaps the best way forward and most likely to get a positive response. You still need to be firm in your request but not overbearing.

ChrisH

[RikM]

If it is of any use, after 4.5 years of letters, emails, phone calls, visits from the council etc., I finally had a light post alongside my garden lowered, shielded and converted to LED. The shield is so good it lights the car park/cul de sac it was put in for perfectly without any spill across the boundary.

I took the attitude from day one that I would only get anywhere by being nice, being polite and being prepared to compromise. My neighbours in the cul de sac are also very happy as the light doesn't flood their bedrooms anymore either.

The clincher for the council was that their street light was affecting my ability to enjoy my private property. There is apparently a legal precedent on those grounds but I didn't want to get that far.

I'm very happy and glad I stuck with it.

Cheers

Ian

That's the route I am taking also. I have two lamps that illuminate off-road car parking areas and also light up my back garden. The glare from one of them is so bright it is easy to stumble down the steps out of the back door. We are still in discussion, they admit that it is a nuisance and they could do something about it but so far, I'm the only one in the street who has complained so it can't be that bad! I'm canvassing help from the neighbours, so all is not lost.

[emadmoussa]

If it is of any use, after 4.5 years of letters, emails, phone calls, visits from the council etc., I finally had a light post alongside my garden lowered, shielded and converted to LED. The shield is so good it lights the car park/cul de sac it was put in for perfectly without any spill across the boundary.

I took the attitude from day one that I would only get anywhere by being nice, being polite and being prepared to compromise. My neighbours in the cul de sac are also very happy as the light doesn't flood their bedrooms anymore either.

The clincher for the council was that their street light was affecting my ability to enjoy my private property. There is apparently a legal precedent on those grounds but I didn't want to get that far.

I'm very happy and glad I stuck with it.

Cheers

Ian

Glad it worked out for you. This gives us all some hope.

[IanWatkins]

Stick with it Rik, I was dealing with Gloucestershire CC and they got it when their staff changed around a year or so ago.

If you have neighbours you can explain your issue with, then it might be worth your while asking them to constructively complain as well.

Ours was bad, illuminating the whole side of our two storey house and half the roof and our whole garden. Neighbours in the cul de sac next door all had to have blackout curtains made for their kids bedrooms etc.

It wasn't right but perseverance got there in the end.

Cheers

Ian

[emadmoussa]

This is the light from my observing spot, somehow it seems much brighter in the photo. But you can probably see how high it's from where I'm standing. I think the shield they fitted moved the situation from ''catastrophic'' to''maybe it's OK''....

Not sure how to get a good photo at night

[emadmoussa]

How long did it take from fitting the new lights to starting the midnight dimming? My council says 3-6 months...

[HumptyMoo]

There are a number of factors to consider, the camera sensitivity and response to light for one, but maybe as an illustrative post the following images show the difference I see between new, old and absent/very little street lighting:

Left: Is a picture taken of the direction to the Town centre, this is where the new street lighting is installed:

Middle: Pointing out to the suburbs where mostly the old sodium is present:

Far Right: Pointing out to the sticks where there is very little to no street lighting, the light you see hitting my neighbours house is from the sodium lamp we have across the street, if it were daylight this view would be to the fields and out to the sticks:

As you can see, the new lighting actually gives (to my eyes) the impression of dawn breaking. Anyway as I say it is not the most scientific of observations but I thought it was interesting and perhaps relevant to this thread. From a viewing standpoint the actual eye observation is a lot whiter for the Left picture.

[astronymonkey]

I contacted my council over the past year and they have finally fitted a sheild a few months ago. Interestingly it seems to be of the same design as others shown on these posts despite the lighting head being much wider which suggests the sheild is a generic one which is used irrespective of the lamp design.

where I live there is an agreement that the council will replace all 29,000 lamps in our area with led ones. When ive investigated the sheilds for these it seems they are much neater solution which involves a clip in plastic insert which wraps around the individual leds so is much less obvious when in place. The council are also debating the dimming of lamps when they installed with the decision needed either to buy them in pre set to dim, or to fit without the preset and do them at a later date.

I agree about being polite though but copied all of the councillors into my emails. My local councillor took the initiative to get my light sheilded but I made sure everyone was kept copied in when I emailed her back to get it moved along. Councils are political places so keeping other councillors in the frame when things were dragging thir feet added a nice bit of peer pressure to the situation to keep it on my local councillors agenda.

Cheers

[emadmoussa]

I contacted my council over the past year and they have finally fitted a sheild a few months ago. Interestingly it seems to be of the same design as others shown on these posts despite the lighting head being much wider which suggests the sheild is a generic one which is used irrespective of the lamp design.

where I live there is an agreement that the council will replace all 29,000 lamps in our area with led ones. When ive investigated the sheilds for these it seems they are much neater solution which involves a clip in plastic insert which wraps around the individual leds so is much less obvious when in place. The council are also debating the dimming of lamps when they installed with the decision needed either to buy them in pre set to dim, or to fit without the preset and do them at a later date.

I agree about being polite though but copied all of the councillors into my emails. My local councillor took the initiative to get my light sheilded but I made sure everyone was kept copied in when I emailed her back to get it moved along. Councils are political places so keeping other councillors in the frame when things were dragging thir feet added a nice bit of peer pressure to the situation to keep it on my local councillors agenda.

Cheers

Did you state your true reason for shielding?

[astronymonkey]

I told the council that I was an astronomer and it was interfering with my hobby and causing a nuisance. I explained that I new sheilding was possible as they had been kind enough to fit it elsewhere so I basically told them what I wanted to happen.

At first it was slow but I chased up my concillor asking her to provide details of someone who could resolve the problem if she wasnt able to do so (ie was thier a coincillor with a responsibility for stretlights) and copied the other councillors in.

No councillor likes to feel theyare not being effective and I knew there would be a point where they would get something done to get me off thier back.

when it was fitted I emailed them all to say thanks for being such a responsive council whilst givng particular praise to my particular councillor.

Kept it polite but to the point.... with the main point being "your light is causing a nuisance but I know you can sheild it , so can you let me know when you will be doing this so I dont need to take the matter further".

Cheers

[oldpink]

last thing I'd mention is astronomy
the fact that there is precedent for light intrusion and personal discomfort of bright light intruding into your property should be top of the list
apart from the fact my scope is a permanent feature of my garden and has been for the last month  as I have got my alignment so good I don't want to move it
but why should I have to put up with conditions like this if there is a simple solution
I'm going to ask about the possibility of a dimming or even lights out after a certain time as the ambient light from the motorway is more to allow you to see where you are going
without the need for the streetlamps

and it saves the council money, (they always appreciate that point)

[astronymonkey]

Hi oldpink,

The reason I didnt tell the council that the offending lights were disturbing my sleep was that they dont really shine onto the house as they lun along the side of the house next door ... so from the bedrooms you cant see them but when on our patio they are pretty obvious.

if they were at the back though I would have definately mentioned the seep issue. For me the councillors seemed to be key to this as they need your vote and dont want to look ineffective, whereas the lighting team themselves didnt seem too keen to get it resolved at first.

ive been to see the streets nearby where they have been trialling the led lights they are going to use. They are pretty impressive and froma distance cast no skyglow which is good. When uunderneath you can obviously see the leds shining but im hoping that the sheild on the existing lights will now be a good indicator that any new led lights that replace them should be sheilded too .... so what im hoping for is a "full cut off" led light fitting complete with rear sheild, now that would be nice !!

cheers

[leelee970]

A good thread,

So the main point is that a lamp post/light can be replaced, at any height, and position with or without shielding.

What is needed is a definitive rule on height and position, and a list of shield suppliers for the council to use once a complaint is received.

It would be good if people on this forum that have succeeded in getting a good result to include their letter of complaint and any info they supplied so that others can use.

I myself am blessed - no street light for about a 1/4 mile and then behind trees, may it last.

Lee

[emadmoussa]

OK, I'm calling the Council back today. Squeezing a little extra shielding from them will be something.

[leelee970]

Every little help

[emadmoussa]

Had a little chat with the lady from the Council, I explained that the new shield is barely effective. And, while it cut down the glare slightly into the house, it's still not enough...worse even, it's still as bright in my observing spot. Observing spot? She asked...I said..yes, it's shining right into my observatory and I no longer able to use my equipment. She sounded receptive and said that she would get them to call me on Tuesday to discuss a possible solution. Fingers crossed...

[Pig]

That's a great result, the council do respond if you are pleasant to them, it just takes a while

[glowjet]

So to return to the subject of street lights 

Does anyone know how they decide on the height of the things ? the ones outside my house are so tall they shine above the roof into my back garden yet a mile down the same road they are only half the height.

Is there some sort of regulation height ?

Dave

The height of lighting columns is determined by the class of road, most of all urban residential lighting is limited to 6 meters following on to bus routes and fairly busy traffic routes this extends to 8 meters and 10 meters. Beyond this comes the urban motorway and major trunk roads, the height then extends to 12 meters and above. There is a code of practice formed in association with the APLE ( Association of Public Lighting Engineers ) HTH

[DaveS]

Been house-hunting today, one of the things I looked at were the heights of the lighting standards, as I'm looking at bungalows. Where I've been looking the streetlights are lower than where I am now, and lower than the house roofs, and sparser. Long may it continue.

Funny thing, yesterday I had a canvasser from A. N. Other Party, so I gently bent her ear about light pollution. Not sure it had any effect as she said they didn't have a policy on the subject. I gave her the same spiel as I gave the first, "Only just enough, and only where it's needed." Any others will get the same.

Incidentally, and in passing, the lamp that's been giving Emad so much grief isn't an LED but a CFL in a rather poor design of housing. I suspect that a well implemented LED would not have been so dire.