School Science Astronomical Club set up needs help

[mikeorange7]

The schools science department have £400 to set up a telescope for use in science club by novices (the students may be able to help the teachers!). 

I have been to the local astronomical society and received some friendly advice but still a lot to decide on. Your opinions and reasons would be so helpful on suitable kit.

Mount

Would an alt-az mount be best? We will mainly be viewing and probably only try using web cam and basic point and shoot camera for photography.

Portabilty

It will need to be moved outside for use. Best to use on hard standing or soft surfaces?

GOTO

Seems to me that with limited time and easily distracted teenagers this function is a must have. Xbox is so much more instantly gratifying I'm afraid!

Accessories

From what I have read it seems that a 2x barlow eyepiece is very useful for detail of lunar and planetary viewing. Is getting a cheshire collimating eyepiece needed? What about a plossl eyepieces?  How about Filters. What type do we need for solar and lunar viewing ?

I just want to be able to offer the kids a way to fire their curiosity further so your sage advice may help encourage the next generation.

Would the telescopes linked below achieve useful observation sessions or can you point me in another direction?

Mike

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/skywatcher-explorer-130p-synscan-az-goto.html

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/slt-series/celestron-nexstar-130-slt.html

[AstroAdam]

I would say that an 8" (200mm) dobsonian would we a good choice.  

Something like the Skywatcher Skyliner 200p

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

This is portable enough to easily take in and out, and comes with a 25mm EP, a 10mm EP and a 2x Barlow.  The EPs aren't the highest quality you'll see, but they are not bad at all for starting out.  The optics in it are very good.

I have one myself.  Brilliant scope.

[AstroAdam]

Ah - just noticed you said GoTo.... That's a lot harder for £400....

Mind you - learn the night sky and you'll be able to locate a LOT very quickly , even without Goto. 

[Tiny Small]

For goto to be accurate you need to polar align etc. Much quicker to star hop. Get the dob and a 32mm eyepiece to help find stuff quickly.

[astronymonkey]

+1 for the 200p. Simply the best bang for your buck available. Goto is too fiddly and set up is too critical.

cheersm

[Charic]

+1 Skyliner 200P Dobsonian. ( I think the Barlow is still an optional extra. and some BST lenses would be good enough for your use) 

[Paul73]

A couple of pairs of binoculars to go with the telescope. Only one person can look through the scope at a time and you can find a lot of things with the binoculars then get the telescope on them for more detail. Don't go less than 50mm ie, 10 x 50 mm. You may find that some one has some lying around at home.

A moon filter is a good plan as, whilst being one of the greatest sights in the sky, it can be painfully bright. Download one of the moon map aps as well.

Lastly, spend a couple of evenings learning to use the scope yourself before letting the your charges loose on it. Otherwise you'll have a load of disengaged children hanging around whilst you are searching for things (this will happen anyway from time to time).

Solar work. Very dangerous if you get it wrong. But, I believe, very rewarding if very very closely supervised.

Good luck. Keep us posted on progress.

Paul

[Steve Ward]

A Dob with a load of kids will be a frustrating waste of time I'm afraid , as soon as the first one nudges the scope off target you have to step in and relocate the target for them.

Fine once but you will soon get bored with the scenario , as will the kids.

You need a steady tracking mount that can be left running ready for a succession of students to look through without fear of having an empty eyepiece ... 

[NGC 1502]

A Dob with a load of kids will be a frustrating waste of time I'm afraid , as soon as the first one nudges the scope off target you have to step in and relocate the target for them.

Fine once but you will soon get bored with the scenario , as will the kids.

You need a steady tracking mount that can be left running ready for a succession of students to look through without fear of having an empty eyepiece ... 

The bit about kids knocking a Dob off target is a regular problem for me at my clubs observing events.  However much you say (politely of course) "don't push the scope" they often do.......

So what I do is tighten the azimuth bearing with a spanner, and my Dob has an altitude brake that I tighten. Both can be done with a SW Dob - there is a bolt in the centre of the Dob base,

and the altitude bearing has those plastic handles each side.    Sorted.

I'd go for a Dob, most of what kids want to see is bright easy to find objects, Moon, Jupiter, Saturn, they get bored fast with faint fuzzies that we find fascinating.........

Either a SW 150 or 200 Dob would do nicely, fast no hassle set up. Tracking is an advantage, but if you don't overdo the magnification, put the object to one side of the field of view so you get

max drift time........works fine for me.     The SW 150 is F8, so less expensive eyepieces work well.

Regards, Ed.

[mikeorange7]

many thanks for your speedy replies,

The SW 200p Dob has glowing reports from many people so obviously tried and tested quality. From what I have read the art of nudging the Dob mount is 

The best price is with FirtsLightOptics; are these a reputable supplier that anyone can comment on from experience? They list the 200 at £279.

Would you think these extras are worth getting at the same time:

• SW SP Plossl 32mm EP  £30
• SW delux achroimatic 2X 1.25"  Barlow EP £30
• cheshire collimating EP £36
• Baader neutral density (0.9) lunar filter £25
• total so far £400.

Is there a good smart phone app worth getting that can help locating objects of interest?

Need to place the order by this Tuesday. Can't wait to get started.

thanks all

Mike

[Wetsparks]

Whatever the scope you decide on, you will inevitably have the problem of only one person viewing at a time and thus boredom setting in to those waiting. Unless of course you put a camera on the IP and hook it up to a PC or laptop. That way all can be involved at the same time. Much easier to keep the interest of the group held.

[tekkydave]

On an Android tablet or phone try Google Sky Map. Stellarium is great on a PC (windows & linux) and free although the phone/tablet version is a few quid. Look at Star Chart and Sky Safari as well - both work fine on my Android tablet.

[oldpink]

many thanks for your speedy replies,

The best price is with FirtsLightOptics; are these a reputable supplier that anyone can comment on from experience?

they sponsor this forum and are a good company to deal with

you will get many glowing reports from member here

[Tiny Small]

many thanks for your speedy replies,

Would you think these extras are worth getting at the same time:

• SW SP Plossl 32mm EP  £30
• SW delux achroimatic 2X 1.25"  Barlow EP £30
• cheshire collimating EP £36
• Baader neutral density (0.9) lunar filter £25
• total so far £400.

 

thanks all

Mike

In short... yes.

[Tiny Small]

Though the dob comes with a barlow iirc so you can save yourself a couple of quid.

[brantuk]

What you want is a good solid stable tracking mount and a good aperture of 6" or 8". I wouldn't recommend the 200P dob for use with kids - I would go for a 200P on an equatorial mount if I had a group of kids to entertain. It'll give you scope for a lesson or two on how to use it before you get outside and a nice little project putting it together.

I would go for a Celestron CG5 which has 2" steel legs and uprated bearings. It's hard to break it and tough enough for a bit of rough use by a bunch of kids. You can get one in near perfect condition second hand for around £100 - pop RA and Dec motors on (brand new) for another £95, and that leaves £200 from your budget to get a 200P (should be around £140 'ish) and a couple of extras like a collimation tool and an eyepiece or two.

If you can squeeze a little more budget from the LEA - or ask them for a monthly £40 per month for 6 months, you'll soon build a great system for educational use. Get the kids to download Stellarium for their homework (it's free) and you won't need to worry about goto - they'll be turning up with a list of objects they want to see, and the brighter ones may even have finding instructions. You'll also find a laser pen dead useful for pointing out constellations and object positions. Hth

[Astro Imp]

Great post as always Brantuk, the only thing that would slightly worry me is the odd positions the eyepiece/finder can end up in. I know there are solutions to this problem in the way of aditional rings as per Astrobaby's mod but it is something to bear in mind.

Getting the youngsters to use Stellarium on their own is a great idea, here's the link:- http://www.stellarium.org/

Good luck.

[Moonshane]

is this primary school or (as I presume) secondary?

I run a club in a primary and we have a 200mm dob and the (Y5) kids (with my own telrad and RACI finder fitted) easily move the scope about and relocate the brighter objects.

with one scope I'd say that perhaps 5-8 kids is optimum but if you have more then it gets a bit tedious for them waiting for the others to look and crowd control becomes an issue.

I have a 6" f5 which I will bring in for the next few sessions and use with an AZ4.

with two groups of five on two scopes it would work well.

don't forget that you can deduct VAT from most goods on the FLO site in terms of your budget spend. our 200mm dob cost £225 net.

depending on numbers a 6" dob and a manual 100mm refractor would give differing views and probably come within budget.

as you hinted at in your OP, give the kids some credit, they are very quick at picking up how to point a dob. it's (ahem) child's play.

[Charic]

The sites sponsor is a valid outlet for your telescope( Skyliner 200P) You could save £7 (p&p) if you went to Pulsar Optical, and until a few days ago, they were available on-line from Phil Burton (authorised retailer) for £254 delivered, but  alas his price has gone up by £61 to £315?