surburban london telescope for adult, all bells and whistles ?

[cloudbase]

Sorry to post yet another london telescope 'what to buy' question, but with the other half working alongside me all day, I can't call a shop to ask the question!

Want to buy 40 something, very tekkie chap, all bells and whistles scope for cmas.

Live in London so city light pollution obv a massive problem

Recipient is electronic engineer, inventor etc so the more bells and whistles the better, nothing will phase him, it will more likely please him.

prefer to buy something he wont have to upgrade.

have seen links to clubs on here that he could join, so a portable and non portable option would be great. He could drive to the club, so its wouldnt have to be mega portable.

where on earth do i start?

 

budget is open, just looking for something special that would suit this techie chap.

many thanks for any input, I have NO idea what I am talking about here, so please excuse any ignorant comments.

many thanks 

[nicks90]

theres a complete imaging rig in the classifieds for a grand! That will either make him happy with gadgets and complexity - or put him off for life

[rwilkey]

Hi Cloudbase, that is a heck of a big question, but generally speaking, you would probably be looking at a 'GOTO' scope of some kind, or one which has a computer database on a handset and once aligned, you just type in the destination (say a planet or a galaxy) and the computerised mount will just take you there.  These telescopes tend to be a bit more expensive but they come in different shapes and sizes.  Probably what's commonly known as an SCT (Schmidt-Cassegrain Telescope) or a Mak (Maksutov-Cassegrain) would probably tickle his fancy. There is no telescope that fits all, and you cannot guarantee no upgrades for the future I don't think.  Best thing is to have a look at the FLO website, have a look at the telescopes page, especially at Celestron and Sky Watcher and see what I mean, and perhaps give them a call, they are really quite helpful.

[RobertI]

Hi and welcome! I am assuming the person is a beginner in astronomy? I am sure you can meet his techie desires, but quick word of caution before you buy anything.

I know a retired engineer who was bought a ‘goto’ telescope (ie: a scope which finds astro objects for you) by his wife. Even with his technical expertise he struggled to observe anything with the scope and quickly became disillusioned. When he called me for some help I discovered that despite the technology of the scope, he was making some fairly fundamental mistakes such as ratcheting the magnification up to 500x to get a good view!! This is the opposite of what’s needed and it is more normal to start at very low magnification, say 50x, to find your way around. This is a classic problem and one of many mistakes that new astronomers make.

So why am I saying all this? Because without a basic understanding of astronomy and some assistance from a good beginners book or local astronomy club you can be left floundering with even an all singing & dancing telescope, and quickly become disillusioned - I want to make sure this does not happen to the person in question.

The usual advice to a beginner is to get a good pair of binoculars and a beginner’s astronomy observing book and view some objects to get a basic understanding. Better still go to a local club and have a look through some members’ telescopes. But I understand this won’t necessarily achieve what you want.

How about getting him a beginners’ book of astronomy, a years’ subscription to a local club and a voucher from an astronomy shop? He can then get what he wants when he knows what is suitable. I realise this is not very exciting to open on christmas day though! There are a number of dedicated astronomy shops in or near London – have a look on the net. Hope this helps.

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi cloudbase and welcome to SGL.

If he or both of you want a scope that is purely visual then many SGL members recommend the SkyWatcher 200 Dobsonian. A work colleage of mine, (he lives in Southall, west London), last year purchased one from FLO, (just click the logo at the top of this page), after bugging me with all kind of questions about refractors and reflectors. He is very impressed with it. Last weekend, he told me, he bagged Neptune and a few DSO'. Not bad, if you ask me, for someone who has owned a scope in thirteen months and lives in the suburbs.

You said that you live are in the London suburbs, then you might wish to try: [url="https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/ There are a few other astro shops dotted around the M25 too.

PS. Now 'we' now know who to blame for the cloudynights. Your secret is safe with 'us'!

[rowan46]

Normally I would agree with rwilkey that techies like goto and would have recommended an sct of about 8" but the chances are that if he loves the hobby and he's really techy He will want to image and the sct's are not suited for that so I would recommend an ed80 on a heq5 pro

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/skywatcher-evostar-80ed-pro-heq5-pro.html

if he just wants to look and not photograph something along these lines

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/se-series/celestron-nexstar-6se.html the 8" version is better but more costly

[Russe]

I'd suggest reading and re-reading "The Backyard astronomer's Guide" first!!

[JamesF]

It is a tough call this one.  You can never tell what might take people's fancy once they get into astronomy.  Some want to go straight for imaging, others are happy with visual only and prefer to avoid anything that involves cameras.  Generally I think unless you're told exactly what the recipient would like, astronomy kit is very hard to buy as a present.  One or two books (I'd include "Turn Left at Orion" and "Making Every Photon Count" amongst those already listed) and an IOU might be the best solution.

That said, there's a lot of gadgetry type fun to be had with a GOTO mount such as a HEQ5 or NEQ6 (though the NEQ6 particularly is quite heavy, so you may discount it if that will be a problem).  From London, many deep sky objects such as galaxies and nebulae are pretty tough given the light pollution, so a scope more biased towards lunar and planetary viewing such as the Mak or SCT already suggested might be a good choice.  If the imaging bug bites, the mount would still be good for that too.

I think the bottom line though is that if you really want the present to be a keeper then you need to buy it together.  If you wanted something to allow him to dip his toes in the water and see how it goes then a 200P dobsonian is going to be exceptionally hard to beat, even if it is about as low-tech as you could get

James

[GeorgeB]

As someone who also lives in suburban London, I would recommend one of these depending on budget:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/se-series/celestron-nexstar-8se.html

or

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-127-synscan-az-goto.html

They are ideal for the moon and planets, which being in London won't be a problem for you.  The GOTO computer functionality will help locate fainter objects in the light polluted sky.  I would be wary about buying any advanced setup for imaging as you will be very restricted with what you can image within London, though the above scopes will allow decent planetary imaging with a modest webcam setup.  There is always the option to upgrade in future as enthusiasm and willingness to travel to darker skies dictates.

[Russe]

I've bought the 127 Mak when I started out. The LP got me into AP. I started with a modified webcam (SPC900) but quickly wanted to do DSO's and bought another webcam capable of long exposures. On that though, the setup will completely fail! It truly is only for moon and planet photography and even then when it's windy your mount will wobble a lot! A webcam chip is very small - it's like as if you use a 6mm eyepiece. Therefore the slightest movement shakes your picture thoroughly. Another downside is the focuser if used on this mount. It really causes everything to shake a lot... In particular if you try to use a Barlow lens for magnification...

[cloudbase]

Wow, many thanks for the warm welcome, and a lot of really great information, your responses are fantastic.

Being absolutely in the dark with all this, I have a few more q's  that have naturally cropped up after reading all the replies and following all the links.

rwilkey - the goto telescope capability sounds spot on, so that's one I need to add to the spec list sure. 

Robertl - I can see that it would be worth him going along to a group first, have googled and have found some which seems like a very good idea.

Philipr - aha, of course i had completely forgotten about the imaging side of things, and working in film this immediately interests me too ! i have seen this done on the sky at night, so....he'd def need a scope that could be set up to do this...

Russe and Jamesf - thx for these book suggestions, sound like another good idea.

Rowan - just to be sure, am i understanding that scopes can be both imaging and look thru (i am sure thats not the term you guys use, but!)

Georgeb - is imaging disappointing in London, would love to know kind of images one could hope to get here when you get the hang of it all.

again, many many thanks, it's been fabulous welcome to the site

[JamesF]

If you make lots of compromises and restrict what you expect to achieve then it is possible to get a single scope that will be ok for visual, allow you to do some planetary/lunar/solar imaging and some deep sky imaging, but ideally they need different approaches.  A good mount will be suitable for all three (though for visual some people prefer one they just sit or stand at and push around), but it's pretty much impossible to come up with a single telescope that does everything really well.  This is one of the reasons it's very difficult to buy for someone without their input

James

[RT65CB-SWL]

A few things forgot to mention in my earlier post.

Many Dobsonian owners add them to an equatorial mount at a later date. Good idea if he wants to try astro-photography. All that is needed is a set of tube rings, a dovetail bar, an equatorial mount and a sturdy tripod. The only drawback with putting this scope on an equatorial is that that eyepiece will be high up and may require a small step ladder to reach it and not much fun on un-even ground if looking at something directly above your head. With the Dobsonian it will be more comfortable as the eyepiece will be lower, as the base is nearer ground.

Catadioptrics, (ie Maksutov & Cassegrains) have their eyepieces at the primary mirror end and may or may not include a star diagonal, so find out if one is included. Having a star diagonal makes observing comfortable. If you go for a refractor, also use a star diagonal and there is nothing more irritating then 'playing Twister' on a cold surface when observing!

As he is new to the hobby some scopes the object looking at will either be upside down or east & west reversed. Do not worry about this as this is 'normal'.

[whizzbang]

Wow, many thanks for the warm welcome, and a lot of really great information, your responses are fantastic.

Being absolutely in the dark with all this, I have a few more q's  that have naturally cropped up after reading all the replies and following all the links.

rwilkey - the goto telescope capability sounds spot on, so that's one I need to add to the spec list sure. 

Robertl - I can see that it would be worth him going along to a group first, have googled and have found some which seems like a very good idea.

Philipr - aha, of course i had completely forgotten about the imaging side of things, and working in film this immediately interests me too ! i have seen this done on the sky at night, so....he'd def need a scope that could be set up to do this...

Russe and Jamesf - thx for these book suggestions, sound like another good idea.

Rowan - just to be sure, am i understanding that scopes can be both imaging and look thru (i am sure thats not the term you guys use, but!)

Georgeb - is imaging disappointing in London, would love to know kind of images one could hope to get here when you get the hang of it all.

again, many many thanks, it's been fabulous welcome to the site

Hi cloudbase, imaging is indeed possible in London. At a later date you could add a dedicated camera and filters, here is an imaged I took form Brixton over a couple of nights. I have only been playing with imaging for around a year, and it's great fun

[whizzbang]

Doh....... Can't seem to add a link to another post........... But if you search for my posts, all 5 of them the latest is an image taken from Brixton with a altair astro 102 refractor on a boot mount.

Welcome to sgl btw

[whizzbang]

Damn auto correct ......... Boot mount? GOTO mount is what I meant

[LouisJB]

One thing to add. You say "prefer to buy something he wont have to upgrade" - I think that's probably not a realistic expectation, given if he does get into it there's virtually no limit on what can be spent/upgraded!

Rather, you might want to think of something that is upgradable (modular parts) vs. an all in one integrated solution. I'm an engineer, I very much like things that are interchangeable and upgradable. I can certainly see the appeal of some of the "all in one" alt-az goto scopes from for example Meade and Celestron but it's nice to have good individual modular parts and be able to swap and upgrade them over time. As mentioned above, the HEQ5 pro goto (synscan) is a good all-in one mount that isn't too heavy/big. In terms of the telescope tube it's almost impossible to say. The 200P (or PDS) is sometimes said to be about the best all-round (for visual, imaging) tube (if there were such a thing), so that's definitely worth considering, it's not exactly compact though.

You probably also want to consider storage space and setup time/space. It will not be well used if it takes longer to setup than the user has patience for and now will it stand the test of time if it can't be stored somewhere conveniently. Some scopes are very large (and heavy), so definitely worth consideration.

Also, a gift like this accompanied by a couple of books would be amazing. If you really want to spruce it up there are many accessories that are useful. Eyepieces, red torch, planisphere for example. The book Turn Left at Orion is a great starters guide to what to look at, where and when. Happy shopping, someone is going to be very lucky at christmas!

[Russe]

Indeed!

I agree with the above - upgradable is the best way forward. My Alt/Az mount is now collecting dust in the corner since I upgraded to a HEQ5 Pro GOTO and the 127 Mak is less used these days since I got a Skywatcher 130 PDS.

By the by - most of us have at least two scopes...

[skywatcher58gb]

Hi whatever you decide to buy and he is taken with astronomy, beware, this will only be the start. other equipment WILL be considered, other equipment WILL be bought. If you look at the previous posts and look at the footers, not many have only one scope, and it can become an obsession, I hope he does take to astronomy because its great hobby and there is a lifetime of learning ahead, its the journey as much as the equipment that makes astronomy so good. Good luck.

Dave

[RT65CB-SWL]

Doh....... Can't seem to add a link to another post........... But if you search for my posts, all 5 of them the latest is an image taken from Brixton with a altair astro 102 refractor on a boot mount.

Welcome to sgl btw

Damn auto correct ......... Boot mount? GOTO mount is what I meant

I know that radio hams & CB'ers use them for their antennae.

I was wondering why a 'boot mount' and what can it be used for for in astronomy equipment!

[cloudbase]

Thanks for all this additional info

upgrade - yes I can see your points entirely, must see that this would just be the start of something - modularly upgradeable sounds just the idea.

LouisB's input underlines this upgrade issue, being a fellow engineer, I can see that upgrading and interchaging would be my chaps bag too...he will be forever optimising his rig I think :-)

The scope will best be left out all the time, so I can see we might have to rope off part of the house for all this :-) As long as we do some imaging, I'll be happy :-)

My partner has wanted to get in to this for years, avid Sky at Night fan while Pat was on the show, and always talking about getting a scope.

whizzbang - just hunting down your images, thanks for the 'shout out'....well, someone did mention CB radios :-) oh dear, showing our ages with that one perhaps :-)

on the club front I found another one last nite, very suprised at how much there is going on in this city! Not sure why, just didn't know there was so much going on.

superb stuff, googling and amazoning as we speak....all these books look like a great idea.

tnx again all this is really helpful

[glowjet]

As you live in suburban London, probably the best bet for you is to visit the Baker Street Irregulars, Who meet on a regular basis in Regents Park. Not only will you have the opportunity to look through a number of telescopes, but you will be able to discuss the subject with like minded people

[hoops86]

Hi Cloudbase Im no expert on scopes so i will leave that side of things to the other guys However i would say stick to the main companys i.e. Celestron, Meade, Skywatcher etc. Dont go for a random 'jessops' or something like that.

I just thought i would give my 2 cents as i was new to all things astronomy and had to research all these things not long ago. Based on your description of him he will not struggle with a goto! So i would strongly suggest thats the route you take. It just makes life so much easier for a new comer to actually find objects and enjoy the viewing rather than spending all night hunting for something only to never find what your looking for.

Personally i would go for the biggest scope with GOTO that you can find. 5" + MAK would be a starting place.

I see a lot of people mentioning astrophotgraphy and the huge expense that comes with it. And how you MUST have an equatorial mount. Thats not strickly true. A simple ALT/AZ GOTO mount / scope and a CCTV video camera can produce some very nice images / videos. Yes you are limited to short exposures however that doesnt mean you cant image things well. Some of these cameras are very sensetive and can be purchased for under £50. The reason i mention this is to combat the light pollution issue you will face. I have very very bad light pollution so it makes viewing distant galaxies or nebula etc very hard from my garden. However when using a video camera i can see these objects in far far greater detail and colour! And also from my comfortable and warm couch viewing object on my TV or laptop Check out the Video astonomy section of this forum (down near the bottom) As he is a techy im sure he wont have any trouble with this route.

Also i havent seen it mentioned and i dont know what your thoughts are on it but have you considered buying a second hand scope? You can find some great deals on the second hand market and you normally find that astronomers take great care of thier scopes It could mean you get his foot in the door at a low cost to see if he likes it and later if he wants to upgrade you wont have wasted 100's of pounds.

[cloudbase]

many thanks for all this Hoops86 Chris, its very helpful, I can see that a starter scope might be a good idea, in order as well to see what you like and dont like about a rig, and as you fellas seem to have 2 or more scopes, it seems like its pretty inevitable anyway.

Taking all the advice on board, I have mulled it over for a day or 2 and have decided that I should perhaps reveal my idea to my partner next week, I can see that it is a very individual path that every one follows, and with him being very techy, I am a bit wary of making a mistake, so with that in mind, I will take him to a club meeting, and will give him this thread to read before the meet - he will appreciate input from chaps already doing it, and will be keen to read the pitfalls first scope-itis :-)

I think this route paves the way for an interesting future under a scope :-)

[LouisJB]

I was going to suggest, if you're in London has a look at the Baker Street irregulars. The Widescreen centre guys are part of that group. If you pop in to their shop (as I do often as near work) they are very helpful. Simon or Nick will be advise you on astronomical equipment etc. They have some on show and can get most 'regular' stuff. Definitely recommend popping in sometime for a chat, it's just a little turn off of Baker street...