Am I expecting too much??

[NIGHTBOY]

Been out tonight (well in the garden) with my 200p dob, left it outside for a good half hour then went in search of the dumbbell. After a bit of searching I (think I found it) I can only describe it as a VERY faint small cloud. I kept on it for half hour and that's all I can describe it as. I was using my 25mm eye piece. I'd say conditions were good as there were pleanty of stars around.

I've seen people on here describing it with vivid colours etc.

Is this all I can expect with a scope of this size??

[ScottS]

From my experience, much of what you will see in terms of DSO's will depend very much on the light pollution present. But in any case they will generally be quite faint/fuzzy/grey objects. The Dumbbell is easily found through my 200p Dob from my less than ideal garden though. Not sure on your LP levels, but see if you can get to a really nice dark site and see the difference.

[AlexB67]

I'll be brutally honest and just say, yes you are expecting too much by the sound of it  . Colour needs big aperture as I understand it, at least 10 inch or above, and at that it will be nothing like a colourful image but subtle for DSOs, notice also that when dark adapted your ability to see colour  goes, to keep it short, all to do with how the eye works with rods and cones ( day versus night vision).

[NGC 1502]

I'm just in from observing in my town garden, as well as the light pollution, it's "clear" as in I can see stars, but very hazy. Of course I don't know what your conditions were like.

A 200p Dob should show the Dumbbell nicely, even from a town, as long as it's not hazy or a bright moon around.  I think to describe the Dumbbell as having 'vivid' colours when seen visually may be misleading you.  It can be colourful in images of course.  Also, what one person describes as bright, may be described as dim by another.........

I find the best views of this object are at medium power, say 80 - 100x, the background sky appears darker, increasing the contrast between sky and nebular. A UHC filter helps too, more expense of course......

And if you can get to a dark site on a moonless transparent night, the difference can be huge.

Hope this helps, at least a bit, Ed.

[Moonshane]

I've never seen vivid colour in anything even in my 16" dob. occasionally there will be a slight shade of blue with a planetary nebula but most objects other than planets are shades of grey. think about the meaning of what you are seeing and what they are and you'll start to realise it's amazing seeing them at all with a £200 scope from your back garden.

[John]

With very few exceptions, the views of deep sky objects are in shades of grey and pretty subtle shades quite often too. The exceptions are the Ring nebula and the Orion nebula where hints of colour tints can been seen, but only hints really.

With really dark, transparent skies the views of showpiece objects can be rather lovely when you get used to what you are seeing and know a bit more about the scale and distance of the objects you are viewing but, with deep sky objects at least, it's a subtle business.

If anyone has described the visual view of the Dumbell Nebula has having vivid colours I'd treat the report with some suspicion I think, unless they were using a 25" scope perhaps !

[RikM]

I've never seen colour in a DSO other than in a few small planetary nebulae, that are sort of pale blue. Even in quite large telescopes. With a 200P Dob you should be able to see a sort of cartoon applecore shape but it will be a grey misty looking thing.

[ScottS]

I've never seen vivid colour in anything even in my 16" dob. occasionally there will be a slight shade of blue with a planetary nebula but most objects other than planets are shades of grey. think about the meaning of what you are seeing and what they are and you'll start to realise it's amazing seeing them at all with a £200 scope from your back garden.

Exactly this. I personally find it amazing that I can see anything at all when its literally trillions of miles away.

[Carl Reade]

Most if not all DSOs appear as grey fuzzies. To improve you could do a bit of research into various filters which do help like a UHC filter it brings out a lot mor detail on nebs.

Carl

[Scott]

I'm afraid I can't say i've ever seen any colour in an eye piece. I have heard of people seeing tinges of colour in M42 but they must have younger eyes than I do....either that or a better imagination than me .

[ronin]

Generally nothing will have vivid colours, more accurately nothing will have any colour at all. :eek:

Should get some when looking at Jupiter, sort of dull amber type colours (sorry the GRS is not red in a scope either, take that up with whoever named it), maybe some colours but faint viewing Saturn, but not really much. Mars will be red that much can be guaranteed. After that shades of murky grey.

People claim colour viewing M42, Orion Nebula, but it seems in general to need a 14" or 16" to have any degree of certainty. Below this size some say they can some say they cannot. With a 200mm you will need a dark sky and then there could be a hint of some colour (green). But "vivid" is not going to be in the description.

That is about it as far as colour is concerned.

Everything else is best summed up as faint grey fuzzies. :rolleyes:

[kerrylewis]

Who needs colour? Most of the colour that you see in photos is false anyway - the Hubble palette and all that.

Shades of grey is enough for me - my imagination does the rest

[AlexB67]

Most if not all DSOs appear as grey fuzzies. To improve you could do a bit of research into various filters which do help like a UHC filter it brings out a lot mor detail on nebs.

Carl

 I found it amazing that one exceptional night I recall even in my small scope with 130 aperture I was able to see some variation in shades quite noticeably. The image here

http://www.astrocruise.com/milky_way/m27.jpg

The regions in red I was able to make out as a subtle variation in the scope, no filters, it wasn't just an even cloud but mostly it is for me, from my garden anyway. It takes a bit of practice also and getting used to, tease out the details, keep looking and wait for those good conditions and a reasonably good dark site 

[ScottS]

I think I have seen a slight green tinge to M42 through my scope, but it's the same problem with other fainter DSO's - you think you have seen it because you know it's there.

[AlexB67]

I think I have seen a slight green tinge to M42 through my scope, but it's the same problem with other fainter DSO's - you think you have seen it because you know it's there.

it wasn't colour in my case of course, shades of grey I mean or cloudiness/brightness if you want to put it that way, but in that case I know for sure because I did not know about that structure at the time. it is only when I got inside afterwards and checked because I was wondering to myself, what was that ? then it made sense

[RikM]

This is pretty close to how I see the dumbbell nebula. A UHC helps darken the background and bring out the fainter oval part.

http://www.deepskywatch.com/Astrosketches/dumbbell-nebula-sketch.html

[Carl Reade]

 I found it amazing that one exceptional night I recall even in my small scope with 130 aperture I was able to see some variation in shades quite noticeably. The image here

http://www.astrocruise.com/milky_way/m27.jpg

The regions in red I was able to make out as a subtle variation in the scope, no filters, it wasn't just an even cloud but mostly it is for me, from my garden anyway. It takes a bit of practice also and getting used to, tease out the details, keep looking and wait for those good conditions and a reasonably good dark site 

Wow I might get that scope  

[John]

This is pretty close to how I see the dumbbell nebula. A UHC helps darken the background and bring out the fainter oval part.

http://www.deepskywatch.com/Astrosketches/dumbbell-nebula-sketch.html

I think thats a pretty accurate representation. The amount of nebulosity and it's intensity will vary subtly with the quality of the seeing conditions and, in this case, a UHC or O-III filter will enhance the contrast of some sections of the object but that sketch gives a decent idea of what can be expected.

[Astro Imp]

This thread should be read by most newcomers as it gives a good idea of what to expect and what is more to the point what not to expect.

During my time as a member of this forum there have been a number of similar threads, which suggests that many newcomers do not have realistic expectations of what they will see at the EP. Perhaps one of our experienced members could write a sticky for the benefit of new members to help them manage their expectations.

[ollypenrice]

With very few exceptions, the views of deep sky objects are in shades of grey and pretty subtle shades quite often too. The exceptions are the Ring nebula and the Orion nebula where hints of colour tints can been seen, but only hints really.

With really dark, transparent skies the views of showpiece objects can be rather lovely when you get used to what you are seeing and know a bit more about the scale and distance of the objects you are viewing but, with deep sky objects at least, it's a subtle business.

If anyone has described the visual view of the Dumbell Nebula has having vivid colours I'd treat the report with some suspicion I think, unless they were using a 25" scope perhaps !

I've just this minute been observing it at our very dark site indeed (Mag 7 for the young ones) and I see no colour at all. This is in a 20 inch Dob. It's a fine site but nobody, I wager, has seen vivid colours at the EP without the aid of questionable substances...

Olly

[Luke]

I haven't seen any colour in it myself with a 16 inch dob and really I can't think I ever see much colour in any DSOs. The sketch Rik linked to is similar to what I see.

[swamp thing]

I've seen colour in plenty of stars, even some stars in bright globs show colour if your scope is big enough and the sky is dark.

Some bright globs have a very slight bluish tinge to me. Maybe this is just my blue sensitive eyes though.

Planetary nebs can show some quite vivid colour in big scopes from dark skies too. This is nearly always the small high surface brightness ones like the blue snowball, Though M57 can show pastel shades in large apertures from dark skies. M27.....not heard any reports of colour yet.

Diffuse neb: only M42 has shown me any colour, some turquoise blues.

I have heard of some seeing colour in the veil neb, but this was with giant apertures (pro sized scopes) I've never seen it.

Galaxies......no colour in any scope that I've heard of.

[AlexB67]

Wow I might get that scope  

Do it :0)

[John]

I've heard that younger folks eyes and especially children are more sensitive to colour than oldies like me. It would not surprise me if younger eyes could see colour in some DSO's that I would struggle to see.

[Carl Reade]

I suppose you do have to blame a lot of advertising showing scopes with a long guided processed exposure behind them. Yes it may have been taken with the scope but with an extra £1000 of extras.