Hold my hands up - am completely lost. Equatorial mount astronomy 101

[bradfrankshaw]

Hi all - I'm going to make a big admission - I thought I was an astronomer and knew my "stuff". But I am stuck and I need to go back to basics.

I have always wanted a good scope for 30 years. I've been into astronomy since I was a kid and I can point out major constellations and stars to friends, I had a duff Tasco and a collection of binos and a Canon camera; the bins were good and I got some good results with the Canon. I read Astronomy Now. But I could never afford a scope. But I read up on them, joined this site, did my research, knew what I wanted, dispensed advice to others on what was a good scope and despaired when they forked out for great ones and then didn't use them. One day I'd get one.

Then my friend won the Lottery. And he bought me a Skywatcher 150p with the Eq3-2 Pro mount with Synscan. No, really! It surprised the heck out of me and all my dreams (in astronomy) had come true! I got it all set up and an a power adaptor from Maplins and I was ready to go. I had the Sky at Night beginners guide to astronomy which had a setup guide to the Eq3 and I diligently followed this. Then I realised that there was more to Polar Scope set up than the magazine mentioned.

I looked it up on youtube and a few websites and I realised I was completely out of my depth. I was a caveman to this precise instrument. I felt humble and stupid.

So I hold up my hand and say I want to be an astronomer but I want/need to learn - where do I start, what should I do first, how do I setup my scope. I'm planning to set up a shed that I can store my kit, books and magazines in. I had planned on this being the backgarden observatory I'd always deluded myself into planning but after this, I know I have to start at the bottom properly.

Is there anyone in Horsham or near by I can also turn to for help and advice?

cheers for any help

frank

[JamesF]

To start with, I'd not bother with the polar scope. I'd set the latitude on the side of the mount to be at the right place, point the mount roughly north (perhaps just make sure you can actually see Polaris somewhere in the polar scope -- anywhere at all), then fire it up, set the time and date and suchlike and do a three-star alignment. Get that sorted and you should be off.

James

[Knight of Clear Skies]

James' suggestion is a good one. A rough alignment will work perfectly well for observing and planetary imaging, the target will drift out of the eyepiece very slowly. During the day with Polaris invisible I've used a compass to align a solar-scope - the entire sun's disc was staying in view for a good 15 minutes at a time.

Reading gives a good grounding, but there is no substitute for getting hands on with the equipment. It wasn't until I got in front of a scope that I finally grasped the principles behind the equatorial mount. Hope you enjoy your new scope. Do you intend to use it for observing, or do you want to get into imaging?

[bri]

That's good advice from James. Simplified, but practical experience to help you get familiar with your equipment to get you going. Your next time out will help with the next step of polar aligning properly. I started with your scope/mount combo and thought it was complicated to get everything dialled in but once you've done it, seems easy. Step by step and keep researching. Soon you'll have that Canon fired up if that is your aim. I'm nowhere near you so cannot help first hand.

[Daddystu]

+1 for James' advice. I would say the instructions and various youtube videos etc may make it seem more difficult than it really is. Particularly, I found regarding the polar scope set-up.

[JamesF]

Setting up the polar scope isn't hard, just a bit laborious, but as you have synscan you can get away without it. It's still useful to do at some point, but get yourself observing first...

James

[bradfrankshaw]

Hi all - thanks for advice. My hope is to first just observe. I've always found it frustrating difficult to find things especially new so year in year out I've just stuck with the stars, binaries and planets I knew; never galaxies, M or NGC objects, clusters etc. The GoTo seems perfect as it'll get me to where I want to go. I want to do planetary observations and photography/imaging as well - I picked up on ebay a while back a Philips ToUCam Pro 2 which I'd love to use for imaging.

The whole polar thing has got me confused as a couple of nights ago I tried out the 3 star alignment and even though it was pointing north, when it slewed to say Deneb it was way off ie in view of finderscope but way off to the right. I tried using the handcontroller to move it into the cross hairs but it must have been adjusting at arc seconds at a time because Deneb wasnt moving lol. I've seen controller adjustment on a friends scope and it was much faster which left me confused.

Just to ensure all was ok with the mount and to feed my curiosity I slewed to two other bright stars both again way off. It was then I realised/thought I need to be polar aligned with polaris.

Last night I spent a while trying to follow a youtube video on this and thought I was getting somewhere. Until I tried alignment on Deneb again. The mount slewed and pointed north...oh dear lol.

I really do need to find a book/website on this mount to understand what I am doing. I cant give up - Ive always wanted this lol and my money didnt buy it!!

[NGEddie]

You can adjust the rate at which the telescope moves when you are trying align it by adjusting the rate - button 2 on the synscan controller. It can be set to a number between 1-9, 9 being the highest.

The rate can be changed whilst in the middle of aligning.

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[matsey]

First of all really don't worry we've all been there - and it will fall into place soon I've no doubt. I'd had an alt-az mounted scope for nearly two years before I got an EQ mount and I felt like a complete beginner all over again when that happened!

First, another polar alignment tip - when you've got the polar alignment done for the first time (and as James says, for observing its good enough just to make sure you can see Polaris anywhere in the polar scope), see if you can mark on the ground where the tripod feet are. Then going forward all you need to do is make sure the feet are in the same place and that's your polar alignment done! That's what I do and it makes thing so much easier.

As for the star alignment - it's quite normal for the stars to be off when you're doing the initial alignment. To get the goto as accurate as you can, try to get the alignment star as centred as possible in the eyepiece - if you defocus the star so it looks like a big donut that will help. Also, make sure you have your longitude/latitude entered in the handset as accurately as possible, and that the date is in the right way (remember it wants month first as in American style, ie mm/dd/yy). Also make sure you've got daylight savings set to 'yes' as we're in BST right now. There are other things you can do to improve accuracy, but don't want to overwhelm so best to start simple!

As for the rate the star was moving in the eyepiece, that will be the 'rate' setting and will be adjustable. Assuming you have the same/similar handset as i do on my mount, there should be a button with 'rate' in it. Press that then a number between 1 and 9 (1 slowest, 9 fastest). I find 3 or 4 quite good for speed in the eyepiece.

And finally! Why not see if you've got a local astro society near you to join? You may even be able to take your scope along to a meet and get someone to give you a tutorial.

Hope that helps a bit, just keep at it and in a few weeks it'll all come naturally without even thinking about it.

Matsey

Ps and can I just say what a lovely friend you have too

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[ronin]

Look up and contact Guildford Astro group. They hold nights to help people out and show them what to do.

Suggest you contact first adn if possible "book" someone as opposed to turn up and try to grab someone.

I would expect them to start the evenings up soon

It is a reasonable drive but would I expect be the best overall.

As already said you do not need to get the accuracy too great but as it is goto then the more accurate the better.

Just looked and they are holding one today - suspect too late to drop everything and get over but ??????

Telescope Workshop

at

Newlands Corner

on

Saturday, 17^th August 2013 from 4:30pm until 8:00pm

http://www.guildfordas.org/

[Jiggy 67]

Your experience sounds so familiar!!! My first half dozen sessions were a complete failure, I didn't see anything substantial, I couldn't get the alignment right and I would spend hours phaffing about. Just be patient and persevere and one day it will just click

I have never touched or calllobrated my polariscope, it's as it was on delivery day in the mount. I just get Polaris as close to the centre of the fov through the polarscope as possible and that will keep me on target for 30 minutes plus, fine for pbserving.

You may want to consider an illuminated cross haired eyepiece, pretty cheap from Sky's The Limit. They are useful for alignment and for aligning your finderscope

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[Superdavo]

If you make sure it's pointed roughly to the north, you don't really need to bother with the polarscope. You only need that for long exposure, unguided astrophotography. When finding objects, just think of it as an alt-azimuth (Left-right, up-down) mount on its side. To track an object, simply move the scope on Right Ascension (The axis that moves the counterweights)

[LukeSkywatcher]

Back in the day when i used an EQ mount, i could not see Polaris from my garden so i got a compass and pointed the polar axis leg roughly north. I'd then observe the Moon when available and see how long it took to drift across my FOV and witha couple of tweaks of the polar axis leg, i go the scope pointed very very near perfect and the Moon took quite a while to drift across my FOV. I then stuck something down on the grass (a small bamboo stick) to mark where my polar axis leg needed to be so it was pointing as close to north as i could get without being able to see polaris.

If observing from a paved area...............do the same as i did but mark on the concrete where the polar axis should go. Some people even bore a small indent in the paving for where the polar axis leg should be and another hole for the other 2 legs of the tripod.

[bradfrankshaw]

Thanks everyone for the replies:

@NGEddie ha I knew you could update the rate but not during alignment. That's going to help a lot.

@matsey when you say anywhere in the polar scope, just anywhere even if the ursa major and cassopeia lines are right off? I used a gps app on my phone to give me a location but the synscan doesn't allow the full set of numbers provided by the app. I'm looking into joining the Horsham society And yes he is my best friend since 5. I was truely blown away!

@

[bradfrankshaw]

@ronin that does sound perfect - but I saw the details a little late. Ive contacted Horsham AS to see if there is something similar.

@Jiggy ok, I did release the axis clamps and rotated them about to try to get free movement to try and crosshair polaris but I was getting more and more confused.

@superdavo cheers!

@lukeskywalker The gps app has a compass; ill point the N leg north, try and get polaris somewhere in the polarscope then do a three star align (using fast slewing!).

Cheers all

Frank

[m37]

What a fantastic gift from your friend!

I wasn't sure from your post whether you had sussed the (initially) strange way an equatorial mount moves, this really confused me to start with.

good luck with it, persevere and it will pay off!!!

[Jiggy 67]

.

@Jiggy ok, I did release the axis clamps and rotated them about to try to get free movement to try and crosshair polaris but I was getting more and more confused.

Frank

Hi Frank

The cross haired ep (called an illuminated reticle ep) is for the star alignment, not for polar alignment. It enable you to get the star dead centre in your fov. For visual obs there really isn't any need to worry about polar alignment, just get Polaris in the polar scope and your mount will track the object accurately for a good amount of time, requiring no manual adjustment, obviously imaging is a completely different ball game and accurate polar alignment is crucial and it's own arm of science!!

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[pixelsaurus]

What a good friend you have. Other than that, I will leave up to the experts. Cheers.

[wxsatuser]

I found the astronomyshed videos on youtube helpful.

Although I 'm still building my obsy and not set-up yet, when it does happen shortly,

with the aid of this forum and those videos I'm hoping for a painless start.

[matsey]

@matsey when you say anywhere in the polar scope, just anywhere even if the ursa major and cassopeia lines are right off? I used a gps app on my phone to give me a location but the synscan doesn't allow the full set of numbers provided by the app. I'm looking into joining the Horsham society And yes he is my best friend since 5. I was truely blown away!

@

Yes, to begin with just make sure you can see it anywhere in the polarscope - that will be plenty good enough for visual.

I found the astronomyshed videos on youtube helpful.

a +1 for these videos - they're what I used to learn about eq mounts and polar aligning. Although he is demonstrating on a NEQ6 so some of the controls may be slightly different to your mount, the basic principles (balancing, alignment, polar alignment, etc) will be the same. Definitely worth checking out.

Matsey

[Knight of Clear Skies]

The first couple times I tried to polar align a scope I got very confused. I find it difficult to hold instructions in my head when I don't understand what each step is for, so ended up flailing around in the dark. Instruction manuals are only so much help: while they tell you what to do they rarely tell you why.

The idea behind the equatorial mount is that by having one axis parallel to the Earth's axis of rotation the scope can stay pointing in the same place just by rotating around that axis. The Earth rotates one way and the mount rotates in the opposite direction so effectively it doesn't move. This also means that the target object does not rotate in the field of view, as it would in an alt-azimuth mounted scope. To achieve this the mount needs to be aligned so that one axis is pointing towards true north. The complications in the setup procedure arise because Polaris is not quite north, it's about 0.7° away.

[rob288]

Lots of good advice above, my pennys worth. For visual observing forget about using polar scope, try doing a solar align, place a pole (check its vertical with a level) about one meter high, check when the sun will transit the meridan, At that time it will cast a shadow, this will be true north, mark the line place your tripod leg on the line, measure the distance between the other two and make sure the line is exactly halfway betwween, all you have to do now is make sure the latitude is set and your ready to go, minimal setup next time especially if you mark the feet location as suggested before. if the latitude is correct, and you do a star align, you should be good. Works well for us, nromally the object will be in the finder or eyepiece every time.

[bradfrankshaw]

Hi everyone - just come in from a pretty successful hour! Learned some lessons, in no particular order:

A) use wide angle lens not super 10mm for alignment.

The N sticker on the tripod may be on the wrong leg.

C) If you see Polaris in the polarscope, jobs done get off your butt and start aligning!

D) Vega at this time of the year may not be the perfect star to align with

E) Altair is good even with fullish moon behind the house

F) The finderscope may be off. Adjust it after the alignment star is found as I was having to put the target star right and slightly down from the crosshairs. Doing that with Vega gave me neckache lol.

G) Switch to *4-*9 slewing when aligning....phew!

H) Altair and Alcor-Mizar are beautiful...

[RT65CB-SWL]

Another +1 for the AstronomyShed videos.