Last Jupiter & Io of the year for me i think

[Ewan]

The last captures i got of the great giant under not very good seeing but not too shabby, 25% from 3000 frames of RGB, AS!2, wavelets PS, my collimation looks ok to me but if you think otherwise please leave me a comment.

Thanks for lookinjg.

[swedonator]

Awesome image. Can't see any problem in collimation.

Why is it the last for this year?

[earth titan]

Collimation looks pretty good to me as well.

Nice image.

[si@nite]

Nice shots Ewan, probably being a bit picky here slight difference at 6 o clock, but its only a knats cod!

[cosmicdonkey]

nice images. On the collimation test did you just record an avi then stack it?

[Freddie]

Hi Ewan, collimation looks good but to make it perfect you would want to check it against the airy pattern as well.

Some good detail on Jup but you do have some RGB alignment issues as you can see some red and blue spots. I assume you used Winjupos so you may want to double check your measurement files.

[Ewan]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Last images hmmm i guess the weather for one, id like to image something else & its getting tiny.

Simon i have only just seen that 6 difference since uploading the image, i guess vecause its more compact, bottom is ever so slightly wider, mske any real difference probably not but i guess some will contest that.

CosmicDonkey thats bang on i used the dmk & did a 20 sec capture then stacked in AS!2, got that tip from here on SGL.

Freddie, hi mate, understood about collimation will check that out, takez a few mins to do a collimation test vid & very handy too.

The misalignment probably down to Reg 6 Freddie im afraid, i have some issues well queries about Winjupo so i may pm you if thats ok ?, mainly about aquasition time, video length then the figures winjupos gives about vid times but ill explain better in a pm.

You know me though ill probably grab the giant again but helpful feedback & appreciated.

Night night $ now

[Ewan]

Hi Freddie, i thought i would post this here actually as it may help others as well.

As i put earlier i am a little unsure of a couple of settings i need to input into Winjupo.

You can see to the left at the bottom of my 'Astronomy folder' the red channel video is dated as 04/03/2013 21:00 BY WINDOWS but is the actual Red channel video icon (video0022 13-03-04 20-59-39) shows 20-59-39 in it's name, is this the START time of the video i assume ?

When i do Winjupo Image Measurement i presume i put the video icon name ie 20-59-39 into the UT box ? & not what the Windows information bottom bar shows ? i put the icon name data in.

These are the file details & actual time length of vid streams :-

Red 8:59:39 length 60 secs

Green 9:00:52 length 60 secs

Blue 9:02:11 length 64 secs

Lum 9:03:30 length 50 secs

There is obviously Pause time in between as i switch filters & adjust Gain & position of target but does is my understanding of the Winjupo process hold water ?

[neil phillips]

The last captures i got of the great giant under not very good seeing but not too shabby, 25% from 3000 frames of RGB, AS!2, wavelets PS, my collimation looks ok to me but if you think otherwise please leave me a comment.

Thanks for lookinjg.

Hi Ewan yes 6 oclock maybe 7 very subtle there. But i am sure you are aware that cooldown can influence the star test profoundly. Not sure if i can still see a very slight plume moving around. its subtle isnt it. If a plume is not causing slight pullover. Just a tiny tweak at the 6 oclock position. for perfect collimation.Youve certainly got it in the ball park.

As long as your sure no thermal effects are pulling the image over. Then tweak untill perfect. Your pretty close here. Though i would ask what power are you testing the collimation with. lower powers will hide very slight misscollimations better. up the power for more scrutiny.

I can see the red and blue colour missalignment Freddie talks about. It can be very annoying nailing alignment. At a push if you do ever find it hard to rid a image of these missalignments. using adaptive noise reduction reduce colour noise on image analyzer will help. But it will reduce the overall colour in the process. Its certainly better to get the alignment right.

However there has been occassions for me, where i am sure something moved during the RGB run, the filter wheel camera or barlow is all things that can move or rotate during the RGB run, there has been occasions where i didnt lock down a tightening screw properly for example. always worth making sure everything in the train is tight tight tight. For winjupos i always make sure the planet on the avi is near as not rotated as possible. yes i know these things can be adjusted on winjupos. but i just like to start out with a straight planet to begin with. It cant hurt for sure. ill let Freddie go in to more detail about your other questions. Just my thoughts, your image is quite nice Ewan especially so late Nice one

[Ewan]

Thanks guys,

Glad i posted these now & the collimation pic.

From what i have read RE Airy disc, you have to have pretty good trans & overall conditions to perform this properly & more difficult on larger scopes, is mine classed as large, against smaller frac sizes then yes but pitted against a C14 then no, i'm still looking into this process, the detail lossed from my collimation should be tiny from the figures i have looked at, but none the less it's still a negative.

Yes Neil i can see the remnants of a a small 'plume' @ 5 position, cooldown was approx 2.5 hours before shooting the collimation vid so i am hoping there wasn't much more settling to occour, as for the alignment issue.....yes it's still ocoouring & i have yet lose this entirely, AP size, number or position i just dont know, when i use RGB Align in Reg 6 Neil i cover the moon & planet not just one or the other, this is the correct thing to do i assume as the image is a whole & not two images joined, as it has been stacked as one image then i just assumed i had to use the RGB with that in mind ?

A small question on Drizzle if i may, can you process your stack in AS!2 say selecting 40% of frames, then do another run wirthout closing the program & select the 'Last Stack is reference' BUT do this when going from say 3 x Drizzle down to 1.5 drizzle ?

regards

Ewan

[neil phillips]

Hi again Ewan no you do not align on both the moon and planet in reg 6 align. That could have caused problems. You align on the planet. Then do the moon seperately by aligning on that, and overlaying it back onto the image in the correct possition. Thats the only way to avoid colour missalignment between moon and planet.

As for doing a re run on AS/2 i belive you can do that. but i havent tried. so dont hold me to that. Just suck and see.

Heres a example of a align that Emil posted on CN . which surprised me when i first saw it too.

Your on top of the collimation i dont think you need any help there

Hope the info helps

[Ewan]

Hi again Ewan no you do not align on both the moon and planet in reg 6 align. That could have caused problems. You align on the planet. Then do the moon seperately by aligning on that, and overlaying it back onto the image in the correct possition. Thats the only way to avoid colour missalignment between moon and planet.

As for doing a re run on AS/2 i belive you can do that. but i havent tried. so dont hold me to that. Just suck and see.

Heres a example of a align that Emil posted on CN . which surprised me when i first saw it too.

Your on top of the collimation i dont think you need any help there

Hope the info helps

Ah i see Neil, so i am too process the vid through AS!2 twice then, one for getting a stacked moon then another to get a stacked Jup then combine the shots in PS ?

[neil phillips]

Ah i see Neil, so i am too process the vid through AS!2 twice then, one for getting a stacked moon then another to get a stacked Jup then combine the shots in PS ?

You can do it like that or just do it as normal. copy the image so you now have two. then one alignment on the planet. one alignment on the copied image ( moon this time ) and just overlay the moon image after cropping it , onto the planet page. the important point is aligning the moon seperate from the planet. it doesnt matter if you do two stacks. or one with the moon on As/2 with a smaller box, as normal.

[Freddie]

Hi Ewan, in no particular order.

Collimation. You may find that the "slight plume" at 5 o'clock is caused by thermal currents caused by your dew shield (assuming you had one fitted). I have experienced this and Chris (CGarry) has posted about that in the past.

My experience is that with what looks like good collimation as you are showing from a defocussed star, you will still get some improvements by using the airy disc. Use MetaGuide and pick a star high up and the stacking feature will take care of any seeing issues. I believe I recently PMed you some settings. You will be fine with a C8 in terms of size as I have no issues with my 925.

WinJupos. There are a couple of things here to be aware of. In terms of the time to enter, I just look at the saved AVI file and take the time from the properties box. I just take the mid point (I do 150sec exposures). A while back I did some experiments and entered the time that the reference frame for the stack was taken. I found that didn't make a difference so now just enter the mid point time of the AVI. One thing that looks wrong from your screen shot is the fact that the last digit for the time is actually a decimal. It looks like you are entering the number of seconds. It should be entered such that 18seconds is .3 30 seconds is .5 42 seconds is .7 etc. Not sure it will make any difference at the moment as your AVIs are pretty short but something to be aware of with longer AVIs.

Once you have the measurement files accurate from Winjupos, you really shouldn't have a need to go back into Regi with the combined RGB to use RGB align. If you are not getting good alignment out of WinJupos, go back and double check your measurement files and adjust and resave as required. I assume I have understood correctly what you are doing there with RGB align, let me know if not.

Get back to me if you want if any of the above isn't clear.

[Ewan]

You can do it like that or just do it as normal. copy the image so you now have two. then one alignment on the planet. one alignment on the copied image ( moon this time ) and just overlay the moon image after cropping it , onto the planet page. the important point is aligning the moon seperate from the planet. it doesnt matter if you do two stacks. or one with the moon on As/2 with a smaller box, as normal.

Thanks Neil i'll try that out when i get a min. Neil is the NR (Noise Robust) figure something you bother to adjust or leave it on 3 ?, i appreciate the video i have been processing was dancing around when shot & very noisy but i did try NR 6 which 'seemed' to aquire better data for the stack, assuming the Quality Graph shows a lot of good data you can drop NR down a notch ?

Hi Ewan, in no particular order.

Collimation. You may find that the "slight plume" at 5 o'clock is caused by thermal currents caused by your dew shield (assuming you had one fitted). I have experienced this and Chris (CGarry) has posted about that in the past.

My experience is that with what looks like good collimation as you are showing from a defocussed star, you will still get some improvements by using the airy disc. Use MetaGuide and pick a star high up and the stacking feature will take care of any seeing issues. I believe I recently PMed you some settings. You will be fine with a C8 in terms of size as I have no issues with my 925.

WinJupos. There are a couple of things here to be aware of. In terms of the time to enter, I just look at the saved AVI file and take the time from the properties box. I just take the mid point (I do 150sec exposures). A while back I did some experiments and entered the time that the reference frame for the stack was taken. I found that didn't make a difference so now just enter the mid point time of the AVI. One thing that looks wrong from your screen shot is the fact that the last digit for the time is actually a decimal. It looks like you are entering the number of seconds. It should be entered such that 18seconds is .3 30 seconds is .5 42 seconds is .7 etc. Not sure it will make any difference at the moment as your AVIs are pretty short but something to be aware of with longer AVIs.

Once you have the measurement files accurate from Winjupos, you really shouldn't have a need to go back into Regi with the combined RGB to use RGB align. If you are not getting good alignment out of WinJupos, go back and double check your measurement files and adjust and resave as required. I assume I have understood correctly what you are doing there with RGB align, let me know if not.

Get back to me if you want if any of the above isn't clear.

Freddie i will get round to trying metaguide as i believe the collimation can still be tweaked a little as you say. You are quite correct RE dew shield, i put it on my scope when it goes out as i know this needs to cool down as well, you must have put a warm dew sheild on before & got all that shimmering ?

I totally understand the video timings now Freddie thanks, so it's seconds divided by 6 = number that goes in the last box ?, i had not even noticed that the . wasn't a : but have just taken & look & now feel a right dummy.

I must admit i find the C8 keeps collimation pretty well even after taking it in / out a few times over the weeks, i have the habit already of checking rough collimation each imaging session now as you never really know & it's not time effective to waste good data.

Just like to say thanks & the comments given have been very helpful.

[Ewan]

Back....................i just stacked set 3 of Jupiter & Io, these are new & are all 1min 40 secs long @ 3016 frames, stacked 35% of these for now, NR @ 6, AP size 75 & 21 of them.

Carried out Winjupo Image Measurement on each channel, now here's the thing, sorry if i'm driving you up the wall Freddie :-(, i have attached a couple of screen grabs so you can see my process.

This screeny shows my folder in the back drop, red channel video selected, notice the windows properties box at the bottom left in the picture showing Video Time as 20:47, the Video Icon in the folder shows 20-45-42, if i enter the properties time i get this

Winjupo Alignment :-

Properties time 20:47

Video Icon time 20-45-42 (i entered 7 as the 42 is this what you meant Freddie ?) :-

Looks like the Video Icon timestamp (i think IC puts this data here) enables Io to line up better by quite a margin when you flick between the two images, what do you guys think ?

This is the combined Winjupo Image but now i have a bright red line down the left hand side, what can cause this ?

Sorry to be a pain guys i would just love to get this nailed.

Thanks for taking the time as always.

Ewan

[Freddie]

Hi Ewan, no problem.

I have found that even a cooled shield (it doesn't take long for a shield to cool anyway) can cause thermal issues. Have a bit of an experiment next time out. Set up with shield on and then get a live image on screen of an out of focus star. Then touch nothing other than remove the shield. You may be surprised. I was !!!

[Freddie]

Slightly off topic, but are you sure you have your longitude correct? I think you are less than a degree off 0 so think you may be 000 35.

I'll have a look at your actual question now !!!

[Ewan]

Freddie i have noticed before that putting the shield on has created problems with thermals showing up at the bottom of the image, i guess as long as i don't have bright lights near me & dew keeps away i should be able to image without it as i have done so before.

Here is the image from above before & after wavelets (quick wavelest i might add), as you can see & i knew it would occour, the red artifacting is now more prominent, shame really as this seems to be a fairly good capture for Jupiter as its shrinking.

Before :-

After :-

[Freddie]

Hi, I actually go to the file list in My Documents and right click and make a note of the time from there. You will have two different times, one is when the AVI started, the other when it ended. I use the mid point time in WinJupos for each of the 3 colour AVIs. It looks like the two times you have are also start and end.

In terms of the red ring on the aligned image, that to me is an indication of being slightly out of alignment on the R channel. I don't know if you just use the auto align for the measurement files, but I find it is always worth a bit of manual adjustment. If I get a bit of mis alignment on the combined image, I just go back and create a new measurement file for the colour (red in your case) I think is out (give it a -1 suffix or something) and then combine using the new R and the original G and B.

Hopefully that makes sense. If I haven't been clear, please get back to me.

[Freddie]

Hi, are you stacking, then combining in WinJupos and then processing the combined RGB in Regi? It sounds like you are. If that is the case, you will get much better results by processing each of the AVIs before putting them into WinJupos. You will find that each colour will require slightly different wavelets and the processed image being much sharper will be easier to align correctly in Winjupos to get a good measurement file. Once you get a combined RGB out of WinJupos, you can then do some final slight adjustments in PS or whatever.

[DrRobin]

Hi,

Nice images and your collimation looks spot on to me.

Robin

[neil phillips]

Freddie i have noticed before that putting the shield on has created problems with thermals showing up at the bottom of the image, i guess as long as i don't have bright lights near me & dew keeps away i should be able to image without it as i have done so before.

Here is the image from above before & after wavelets (quick wavelest i might add), as you can see & i knew it would occour, the red artifacting is now more prominent, shame really as this seems to be a fairly good capture for Jupiter as its shrinking.

Before :-

After :-

Drop the ld values a bit as well Ewan, on combine rgb frames, even just dropping down a bit to say 96 can help some edge problems. try it see if does. LD values next to the RGB combine boxes

[Ewan]

Hi, I actually go to the file list in My Documents and right click and make a note of the time from there. You will have two different times, one is when the AVI started, the other when it ended. I use the mid point time in WinJupos for each of the 3 colour AVIs. It looks like the two times you have are also start and end.

In terms of the red ring on the aligned image, that to me is an indication of being slightly out of alignment on the R channel. I don't know if you just use the auto align for the measurement files, but I find it is always worth a bit of manual adjustment. If I get a bit of mis alignment on the combined image, I just go back and create a new measurement file for the colour (red in your case) I think is out (give it a -1 suffix or something) and then combine using the new R and the original G and B.

Hopefully that makes sense. If I haven't been clear, please get back to me.

I will give that a go Freddie as it makes perfect sense to me, sharper image should give better alignment detail, i'll tweak it a little then as you say drop into PS for final editing. As for the video times, i did think looking at the file info that the windows file description is the END time & IC capture file info (in the name) was the end & i guess as long as the 3 channels are of equal length selecting a mid time does make sense, even if the aquasition time is a lot different you should still be able to do a few trial & error run's till it's correct.

I did Auto Align F11 & i have noticed before it has been wayyyyyyyyy off so i'll give that a tweak as well.

Drop the ld values a bit as well Ewan, on combine rgb frames, even just dropping down a bit to say 96 can help some edge problems. try it see if does. LD values next to the RGB combine boxes

Thanks Neil, i have never adjusted or even looked at the LD option on Derotation Of Images, i'll give that a shot also, i was googling Winjupo last night & i see that the LD can rid you of halo's as well which may come in handy.

I thought i would concentrate on Jupiter 1st then 'add' Io later.

Hi,

Nice images and your collimation looks spot on to me.

Robin

Thanks Robin, it is good but i am going to give the elussive Airy a shot as mine clearly needs a slight tweak at 5 & 6 o'clock, it really does pay to be as spot on as possible, why have expensive gear & then not get as near to 100% out of it as possible. I will be giving Metaguide a shot & if anyone is interested i will post a before & after shot of collimating.

This post is a longen & you guys are taking the time to answer so i thank you for sparing the time guys as i have learnt so much more from it.

[Ewan]

After nearly 2 hours trying out various options i went with RED LD @ 94 (i tried 98 - 90), sharpened each AS!2 stacked channel image to a degree then popped into Winjupo, i am pretty sure my Lat 50:51:53.07 Long 0:35:25.01 are correct but i checked again to make certain, as my vid runs were 1.40 mins i added 50 seconds to UT time in Winjupo's for each channel to do the Image Measurment to get this :-

I know it's not perfect but the alignment has processed a lot lot better than i had hoped for & i didn't go over board in Wavelets sharpening as i had already done a bit pre Winjupo.

Now how i get that darn Io in the pic :-)

I hope both Neil & Freddie are happy i have followed their guidance (invaluable btw lads) & this is what they were expecting, a clean (if a little bright in the centre) image, pretty good detail i am happy with but most of all i have learnt a hell of a lot processing this one picture, so thanks lads i really needed those tips & they paid off.

Ewan