Skywatcher Esprit PRO Triplet Refractors

[PNJ]

Hi Olly,

Thank you for you input on this matter, i agree Skywatcher should have a flattener in place for this telescope or at least inform us of developments, as i see it the telescope is NOT fit for purpose for astro photography, unless someone comes up with a 3rd party one, as it stands my supplier is working hard with optical experts to find out. My reasons for been upset was the way the telescope was advertised, OVL did not inform my dealer of changes not even when it was ordered, and i still maintain that the reviews should be removed.

And even today the telescope is advertised in certain dealers as complete with flattener. perhaps i might be a bit over the top, but as you can see im very annoyed , and had no feedback from Skywatcher or OVL , all they say is see your dealer.

paul J

[ollypenrice]

Hi Olly,

Thank you for you input on this matter, i agree Skywatcher should have a flattener in place for this telescope or at least inform us of developments, as i see it the telescope is NOT fit for purpose for astro photography, unless someone comes up with a 3rd party one, as it stands my supplier is working hard with optical experts to find out. My reasons for been upset was the way the telescope was advertised, OVL did not inform my dealer of changes not even when it was ordered, and i still maintain that the reviews should be removed.

And even today the telescope is advertised in certain dealers as complete with flattener. perhaps i might be a bit over the top, but as you can see im very annoyed , and had no feedback from Skywatcher or OVL , all they say is see your dealer.

paul J

I agree. Synta need to understand that the premium telescope market is a new environment for them and that this kind of mistake, and this kind of communication, doesn't go with the turf.

Olly

[Stu_2011]

If you didn't get it it's probably me probably me pressing the wrong buttons again, here's the photo that cropped up in a discusion on CN back in July last year other than this I know nothing I'm afraid.

Thanks again for your advise on the GTF81, do you know if the Esprit 100 ED is having a makeover because nobody seems to have one of those either?

The 80 mm Esprit triplets look interesting, I hope Skywatcher price them accordingly. With the likes of William Optics and Altair Astro now producing some well received 80 mm triplets with flatteners at around the £900 mark they will have to price them accordingly. If the 80 mm Esprit's have an RRP of around £1,300-1,400 then I fear that sales will be slow.

I intend to buy an 80 mm triplet in March, more options are always good.......

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[Gasman]

Hi

Been reading this thread with interest. I was very tempted to get a 120mm Espirit last year but read of problems with the optics from other owners/testers, presumably they have cured those now?

Steve

[PNJ]

The Optics on the Esprit 120 are very good i must say, its the 100mm they had problems with. Its just they dont do a field flattener now for the 120 or 150

paul j

[Gasman]

I see what you are saying Paul still seems a strange going on to me. I know most scopes need a flattener what intrigues me is that we have to pay extra for what is in effect `correcting the optics`. I know its the nature of the beast that these things need correcting but its like buying a car then having to pay extra for the steering wheel!!

Steve

[FLO]

In my view Esprit is a brand and Takahashi and TEC are manufacturers. Does this matter? Paul's experience suggests that it might.

Synta are a manufacturer Olly. 'Skywatcher' is one of their brand names and 'Esprit' is the name they use to identify their premium-line optics.

Paul's experience with his supplier is a different matter. He bought his telescope (not from us) just as Skywatcher announced the price change and that they would be offering the flattener separately. His supplier wasn't aware but I have a pretty good idea who it is (one of your favourites Olly) so am confident he will be well looked after.

Posh. It's a pejurative term and somewhat dismissive. I think Takahashi deserve it but TEC don't. Takahashi use their (usually but not always justified) reputation to inflate the price of banal bits of hardware which should come with the telescope in the first place. They are hidden add-ons, a nasty way to treat your customers. Tak also exploit their reputation to sell, complacently, products which are past their sell-by date like the Sky 90 and the FS60 or push out mounts with RS232 ports years after these disappeared from computers. Or £90 for a cable!!

I really don't want to bash Takahashi. They appear to have an excellent reputation and an army of loyal followers.

TEC, however, sell honest premium apos at remarkabley reasonable prices. They even say on their website that the bigger triplets offer a small gain in resolution for a big increase in spending. That is not the kind of thing that posh people say!

In marketing circles that is called a 'negative qualifyer' and the law of diminishing returns is already well known: it costs significantly more to squeeze the last ounce of performance out of just about anything.

Both the TEC and Tak have premium R and P focusers. (Don't panic, I won't go off on one! But it's quite a claim to say that the performance of a Synta/Esprit Crayford will easily match that of a Feathertouch on a TEC.)

I agree I have suggested to Skywatcher they change the current focuser to a Feathertouch (Starlight Instruments already have a model that fits). Not because it 'needs' a Feathertouch (most owners will find the current focuser perfectly adequate) but because it is 'expected' at the premium end of the market.

Also both TEC and Takahashi have proven field flatteners though, by Gad, they cost a bit more than £200. Presumably Synta/Esprit made some kind of bungle with the flattener. Synta had a similar problem with one of their other brands. If you want to match the premium scopes you have to offer a serious flattener and get it right.

This is Synta Olly, the company who offer dedicated optically-matched reducer/flatteners for their 80, 100 and 120ED doublets. Very good they are too. Both the 120 and 150 Esprit triplets also have dedicated optically-matched flatteners. The 150 flattener is available, the flattener for the 120 is currently unavailable but that is temporary (I don't think we can be too critical while one of their competitors has a waiting list for telescopes).

It is in imaging that the real test comes, hence the crucial importance of the flattener. Esprit are not in the premium apo market without it.

That is why the 120 and 150 were both launched with flatteners.

I don't want to talk up or talk down the Esprit brand. I think we should try them and judge them honestly on their performance. This will take a bit of time to trickle through, that's all. I don't see it being all that slow, though, since £4250 is a hell of a good price for a 6 inch triplet.

I have no doubt the 120 and 150 optics are up there with the best but Skywatcher will need to work hard if they are going to overcome prejudice. In particular they need to rethink their marketing strategy (only my opinion) because marketing to the affluent requires an entirely different approach from the one they are currently using.

Synta need to understand that the premium telescope market is a new environment for them and that this kind of mistake, and this kind of communication, doesn't go with the turf.

I would like to see better communication but I won't criticise them for it because in some areas their communication is better than the competition. For example, they have revealed the glass types used for the Esprit optics. This is not common practice at the higher end of the market. Is that information freely available from Tak, TEC or Televue? (Apologies if it is, I really don't know).

Steve

[FLO]

The 80 mm Esprit triplets look interesting, I hope Skywatcher price them accordingly. With the likes of William Optics and Altair Astro now producing some well received 80 mm triplets with flatteners at around the £900 mark they will have to price them accordingly. If the 80 mm Esprit's have an RRP of around £1,300-1,400 then I fear that sales will be slow.

I shall be nervous if they are around the same price as budget triplets. I hope they charge more so offer better batch-to-batch consistency and more reliable lens cells.

Its just they dont do a field flattener now for the 120 or 150

The field flattener for the 120 is currently unavailable, but that is temporary. The flattener for the 150 is available and always has been.

I normally check my posts befor hitting 'add reply' but today is Sunday and my youngest wants help building a Lego fort so aplogies for any typos

Steve

[FLO]

... today is Sunday and my youngest wants help building a Lego fort so aplogies for any typos

We have a budding architect in the family

(Probably should have asked him to clean the green base first!)

[Ant]

We have a budding architect in the family

(Probably should have asked him to clean the green base first!)

That looks like a start of an observatory plan

[FLO]

I don't think he's ready for roll-off roofs

[Stu_2011]

I shall be nervous if they are around the same price as budget triplets. I hope they charge more so offer better batch-to-batch consistency and more reliable lens cells.

Steve

Thanks Steve, just been reading the rumours across the pond, the Esprit 80 is now on the Skywatcher US website and listed as "coming soon".

Some people suggesting a price of around $1,200 dollars so I guess that will mean £1,200 to 1,300 or a bit more by the time the boat lands on the South Coast - nothing from Skywatcher on this, just rumours. Rumours also suggesting a March / April release date.

I guess I know the answer to this already but do you have any further details on UK release dates? I will be in the market for an 80 mm triplet from the end of March onwards, the Esprit could factor in this selection........it will go well with the other 80 mm scopes (ST80, Equinox 80, A80MF) that I have already bought from you guys, I like my 80 mm scopes!

Thanks

Stuart

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[FLO]

Thanks Steve, just been reading the rumours across the pond, the Esprit 80 is now on the Skywatcher US website and listed as "coming soon".

Excellent

Rumours also suggesting a March / April release date.

Let's hope the rumours are true and it is available here around the same time.

I guess I know the answer to this already but do you have any further details on UK release dates?

Unfortunately not, but I will request an ETA.

Thank-you for posting this Stuart

[Stu_2011]

Excellent

Let's hope the rumours are true and it is available here around the same time.

Unfortunately not, but I will request an ETA.

Thank-you for posting this Stuart

Thanks, any info on the ETA would be handy, PM if you would prefer.

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[Stu_2011]

Thanks Steve, just been reading the rumours across the pond, the Esprit 80 is now on the Skywatcher US website and listed as "coming soon".

Some people suggesting a price of around $1,200 dollars so I guess that will mean £1,200 to 1,300 or a bit more by the time the boat lands on the South Coast - nothing from Skywatcher on this, just rumours. Rumours also suggesting a March / April release date.

I guess I know the answer to this already but do you have any further details on UK release dates? I will be in the market for an 80 mm triplet from the end of March onwards, the Esprit could factor in this selection........it will go well with the other 80 mm scopes (ST80, Equinox 80, A80MF) that I have already bought from you guys, I like my 80 mm scopes!

Thanks

Stuart

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And it's on the Canadian website rather than US, things seem to appear on this website first, I think the Synta owner lives in Canada so maybe this is a factor??

http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/01_products/02_detail.php?sid=417

Looks good

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[FLO]

And it's on the Canadian website rather than US, things seem to appear on this website first, I think the Synta owner lives in Canada so maybe this is a factor??

People often refer to Synta as a Chinese company. Their manufacturing facilities are in China and Taiwan but it is a Chinese/Canadian owned business. At least that is my understanding.

Good to see it has a dedicated field flattener

[Fogboundturtle]

So it looks my information was dead on. I will probably be one of the first to own the Esprit 80ED. Just in time for my new SBIG STF-8300m so hopefully I can give you guys some first impression soon.

[FLO]

So it looks my information was dead on.

It does

An f5 80mm triplet with optically-matched flattener. That should shake things up a bit...

[Fogboundturtle]

It does

An f5 80mm triplet with optically-matched flattener. That should shake things up a bit...

I hope the price is right in that ~1200 range. Its the only thing that can change at any moment. You never know with SW.

[FLO]

I think we have enough information to add the new Skywatcher Esprit 80 ED Triplet to our website.

If we receive an official ETA or UK retail price we will start a new thread here in the Sponsor Section

If you would like to receive an email when the telescope becomes available please click on the 'Notify me...' button.

[Rich MedRev]

This is looking very interesting indeed, However I would hope for an all-in price (including the flattener) for circa £1300, if as I'm reading that WO have sorted the collimation issues on the GTF81 which is £900 or the Altair Wave 80 plus flattener for similar money.

Regardless we are certainly living in interesting times and hopefully the lure of the TSQ85 can be well and truly squashed!!

[E621Keith]

People often refer to Synta as a Chinese company. Their manufacturing facilities are in China and Taiwan but it is a Chinese/Canadian owned business. At least that is my understanding.

Good to see it has a dedicated field flattener

According to information floating on the Internet, Synta is a Chinese/Canadian/British joint venture. I wonder if OVL is more than just an importer.

[FLO]

This is looking very interesting indeed, However I would hope for an all-in price (including the flattener) for circa £1300, if as I'm reading that WO have sorted the collimation issues on the GTF81 which is £900 or the Altair Wave 80 plus flattener for similar money.

Regardless we are certainly living in interesting times and hopefully the lure of the TSQ85 can be well and truly squashed!!

Interesting times indeed.

We aren't keen on budget triplets. There are triplets out there that perform well at 20-degrees on an optical bench but pinch when outside in the freezing cold of winter. Don't pay too much attention to the ones sent to magazines for review, the reviewer will no doubt offer an honest opinion but the model loaned for review might not be representative of the ones on dealer's shelves. Retailers and manufacturers are of course biased but when they offer an opinion it can be considered in context (it is more difficult when they use prominent individuals to influence forum discussion and opinion).

When choosing a triplet consider price and reputation (it is wishful thinking to expect a budget triplet to be the equal of a premium brand) and seek the opinion of experienced owners. And when you have made your decision select a retailer who will be there for you if/when you need assistance

HTH,

Steve

[Fogboundturtle]

So you don't consider WO a cheap triplet ? You are selling it.

[FLO]

So you don't consider WO a cheap triplet ? You are selling it.

I'm not sure which one you mean. Our WO triplets start at £1749 for the FLT110. There have been some well-publicised issues with some of the earlier WO focusers but otherwise the models we offer are all tried and trusted. The latest cells with 'safety ball-bearings' perform very well at cold temperatures.

The one that caused us concern was the GT81. It was made in a small batch of 100 and sold for only £679. We considered it carefully then decided we would not offer the GT81. It proved to be a poor decision because soon after launch SGL members posted positive reviews so we reconsidered and ordered some. Unfortunately by then news had spread, the GT81 was a winner, so WO had almost sold out. We only managed to source a handful but all performed well and the owners are pleased. With the 5-element GTF81 we were also in two minds because 5-element designs are notoriously difficult to manufacture, at least at an affordable price, but the GT81 experience gave us the courage to place an order. Unfortunately it quickly became clear the first batch had collimation issues so we pulled out. We haven't sold a single GTF81. Reports are coming in that the current batch of GTF81 are performing well so we might reconsider.

We have always cherry-picked the telescopes offered on our website.

Hope that answers your question?

Steve