expert opinion needed. is this normal ?

[philwright66]

on doing some reprocessing of my new year's eve jupiter images, i have noticed an artifact that keeps appearing in exactly the same way. Jupiter's moon Europa has a fuzz on the left limb,but this fuzz also 'seems' to be on the shadow as well. i thought when first noticing the fuzzy moon limb that it was just a processing artifact,but on close examination,it really does show up in the shadow transit. i have restacked using completely different reference frames;used stronger/milder wavelet settings,etc., but it is still there. here is a crop :

[VigdisVZ]

Wow, that's an interesting little artifact.

I cant help you but some of jupiters moons have been known to have volcanos, but I dont think they're that extreme, and certainly not on Europa.

[Extreme Fencer]

Have you imaged a cryo volcano? cant find any info on NASA web site

[philwright66]

i just cannot figure it out. i have reprocessed several different image stackes with different times ie: 21 07, 21 10, 21 12; and no matter what i do in terms of processing,it is always the same. i am totally stumped,since Jupiter itself rendered perfectly.the alignment boxes were small and placed on seperate areas of the planet ,and with one placed directly on Europa. stacked using AS!2,processed in registax4 or registax6,ps elements for colour enhancement.

skywatcher 180 pro maksutov@ 2700mm f15. ZWO ASI120MC colour planet cam.

thanks for your interesting comments!

phil.

ps here is the original full image:

[philwright66]

i'm thinking maybe it's the way wavelets work.by applying a mathematical transform identically to every pixel in an image,it sort of replicates tiny artifacts on similar tiny spots. does that make sense?

cheers,phil

[Ultrapenguin]

My understanding is that Europa has in teh past had volcanic activity but none has been seen only evidence of flows on the surface, Io on the other hand has spectacular eruptions which are truely huge in size. As for being able to see them from Earth I believe they have been observed using telescopes with adaptive optics. Not saying you could not see an erruption but I am guessing it would really be something huge in size bigger than any seen before and if it were on Europa it would truely be a monumental discovery!

Nice picture btw, if you really think you have something you should send your original video and the stacked images to the UK Space agency http://www.bis.gov.uk/ukspaceagency

[Kokatha man]

Some imaginations running overtime here, but perhaps a read of this thread http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5570803/page/10/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1 might be relevant.....I haven't given your image any real thought except to note the rgb alignment is way out on the moon in the enlarged image, but optics (including tuning/collimation and quality) as well as seeing yield strange results at times.....but certainly not volcanoes or invading aliens..!

[Ultrapenguin]

Some imaginations running overtime here, but perhaps a read of this thread http://www.cloudynig...5/o/all/fpart/1 might be relevant.....I haven't given your image any real thought except to note the rgb alignment is way out on the moon in the enlarged image, but optics (including tuning/collimation and quality) as well as seeing yield strange results at times.....but certainly not volcanoes or invading aliens..!

No offense Kokatha man but that is exactly the kind of thing that holds science back! No one mentioned aliens except you and I am sure you found your comment quite funny. Now as I pointed out in my post it is highly unlikely that this is a volcanoe erupting on Europa but I would not dismisss it so quickly. What would be more helpfull would be if someone had images from the same time period. I would rather report some thing a 1000 times and be told it waqs atmospheric conditions than not report something interesting once.

Oh and i have seem many artifacts inclueding ones in shadows from movement of the target but never anything that looks like that, so in the tnterests of science and education, does anyone else have anything simular? so I can learn...

[Sammyb]

I immediately put it down to an artifact but was is puzzling me is why is on the shadow as well?

[VigdisVZ]

Some imaginations running overtime here, but perhaps a read of this thread http://www.cloudynig...5/o/all/fpart/1 might be relevant.....I haven't given your image any real thought except to note the rgb alignment is way out on the moon in the enlarged image, but optics (including tuning/collimation and quality) as well as seeing yield strange results at times.....but certainly not volcanoes or invading aliens..!

No, volcanic activity of this magnitude is extremely unlikely. However I just found it funny that the artifact could be interpreted as such.

Still since you brought up aliens, who knows

[Kokatha man]

Sheeesh! - happy to bring aliens into the mixture, or anything else equally ludicrous - "no offense" intended but those interpretations are quite simply absurd if you investigate anything apropos the entire subject of imaging, optics and optical effects, Jovian Moon resolution etc, etc.....and in the interests of science and education it is important that folks do some basic reading to appreciate just what is and isn't possible in these fields!

I appreciate that you meant well and that's why I reiterate that there is nothing personal in my replies both then and now, and only brought aliens into the mix as a means of injecting some humour as a possibile explanation that was equaly far-fetched!

I believe that these forums are here to provide folks engaged in planetary imaging with information of a quantifiable kind, which is why I provided the link to an analogous matter that was dealt with on Cloudy Nights: also why I try to help anyone serious about this subject with tutes etc.....but to keep to the point-in-hand, again I point out that the most noticeable aspect of Phil's enlarged image is the large misalignment of the colour channels.....

[Kokatha man]

.....but to keep to the point-in-hand, again I point out that the most noticeable aspect of Phil's enlarged image is the large misalignment of the colour channels.....

.....and to be a little more specific and perhaps a bit more helpfull (with no humour whatsoever! ) the ONLY "fuzz" I can see on his enlarged crop for both the Moon and shadow on the LHS IS the rgb colour misalignment..!

[VigdisVZ]

Just kidding about the aliens Kokatha Man, the wink emoticon was meant to show that. Lets drop aliens and volcanos.

If you zoom the artifact it clearly shows an RGB rainbow of sorts, so it's some sort of light being bent somewhere. So it's just a matter of misaligned optics, or could it have been caused by say, moisture?

[midnight_sky_watcher]

Could it be one of jupiters other moons in the distance, if you are restacking and trying other processing procedures and its still there, that could be the answer.

Grant.

[Olorin]

I would guess that the alignment and stacking was done mainly on Jupiter. This will introduce a smear on the moons. if you align the video only on the moon I guess you will get the moon round and Jupiter a bit smeared.

But that is just a guess :-)

Dror

[Kokatha man]

I would guess that the alignment and stacking was done mainly on Jupiter. This will introduce a smear on the moons. if you align the video only on the moon I guess you will get the moon round and Jupiter a bit smeared.

But that is just a guess :-)

Dror

Of course you are correct Dror.....this happens all the time and if one wants a moon included in an image then often it needs to have a seperate colour alignment and then this one "re-composited" back into the original image where more central detail on Jupiter's disk has been correctly aligned.

I don't have any problems with people searching for answers but there's the plausible and then there's the ridiculous: I don't think turning common-place image-processing phenomena into speculative silliness is beneficial.....just my personal opinion mind you about a planetary imaging forum - maybe SGL should have a section called "Silly Speculation" - I suppose there's room for anything..!

[VigdisVZ]

I suppose there's room for anything..!

Except astrology

[Kokatha man]

Except astrology

Well Carl - maybe I take it a bit too serously but I reckon astrology might be more believable than some of the suggestions one hears.....there are numerous fine planetary imagers here on SGL and anyone of them could assess the situation for what it was with the image in question: I was a bit bored and read the thread and thought that the uninformed suggestions being articulated warranted a bit of reality injected into the equation when talk of eruptions, stacking more-distant satellites etc started to be espoused - possibly a bit of grumpiness invaded my response and if so I apologise, everyone needs to start somewhere I guess.....but really, tbh I think that SGL's Planetary Imaging has been running for quite a long time and it'd be nice to see a tad more critical thinking at times..!

Just to reiterate: there's no "guessing" whatsoever in Dror's response (I think he was just being a bit more polite than me! )

This is nothing more than simple rgb misalignment.....can be due to several factors but it's NOT Krakatoan-like eruptions of Jovian Moons and wondrously impossible imaging possibilities, nor the vapour trail of a fast-accelerating alien transporter..!

[Space Cowboy]

Those ASI120MC cams must be good if they are capturing volcanic activity!

[philwright66]

just got in from work. and it looks like i have opened a can of worms :0

thanks for all the replies. i guess i have a lot to learn.....

cheers,phil

[Ultrapenguin]

Dont worry Phil, we astronomers are an emotional lot, you would be amazed at our ability to disagree one minute then be amireing scopes over a few beers the next! just a difference of opinion one of the great things about this hobby is the many and varied people and opinions you get to meet some you like some you dont. Me I still think your image is unusual not because of the moon but because the artifact/volcanoe/asteroid impact/alien space craft apears in the shadow also, I ve seen many atifacts of processing but not one that appears in the shadow also.

But peace to Kokatha man if he disagrees thats his right and his opinion is valid and he is right about the colour channel alignment it is off by quite a considerable amount :-)

[Luis Campos]

Hello Phil,

As a previous owner of a pro MAK 180 (an excelent performer) I can say a few words about this.

In my opinion what you are seeing in the moon is one of two things, miscollimation or thermal issues, but I'll go for the thermal issue, the MAK 180 is not very "user friendly" when it comes to thermal equilibrium (nor is any MAK by the way...) on my specimen depending on the temperature differencial where the telescope is stored and outside temp. took anywere between one hour to more than two hours the get steady star difraction patterns on the star test, this also apllies for very small angular size objects (eg. Jupiter moons).

When not acllimatized there is a plume emanating from the center bafle tube that drags the difraction pattern in one direction (up) and it certainly looks the case here, the difraction ring around the moon is concentrated on one side due to this causing this effect, there's also some RGB misalignment, caused probably by low elevation of the planet when capturing or miscollimation of the optics.

Best wishes,

Luís

[philwright66]

thanks Ultrapenguin and Luis for your thoughts. my mak wasn't quite cold enough tbh,and due to variable cloudcover,i do tend to rush when any clear slots present themselves. i have recently bought a sort of observatory tent which i will assemble as soon as the uk weather settles down a little.my 'scopes will then be at ambient temp. whenever i need them.

thanks again,phil

[Raga]

If it is light being bent as posted earlier the maybe it IS ALIENS with cloaking technology

[philwright66]

just saw this on cn:http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5611038/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

i guess it is a coincidence that it is Europa again!

cheers,phil.