TAL 100RS or Evostar 120 ... that age-old discussion

[TonyD]

Mike,

What kind of pier setup do you have in mind.

I am lucky where I am. The back of my house faces west and overlooks fields and forest so very little light pollution. A permanent fixture to place an equatorial mount would be fantastic.

That's one of the reasons I might consider that Antares in the future. If I can make the base stable enough then wobbling won't be so much of an issue.

Best,

Tony

[John]

Good write up Qualia

The CG5 is a pretty robust mount for it's cost, having a little more capacity than an EQ5 in my view, because of the 2" steel tripod legs (which are taller than the EQ5 ones as well). I used to mount a 150mm F/8 refractor on a CG5 and it did quite well for visual use. It would not even break into a sweat with a TAL 100 on it.

Currently I use an AZ- 4 and a Giro-style alt-azimuth mount to carry my refractors. The longer tubed ED120 benefits from a 16" pillar extension to keep the eyepiece up at a nice level when viewing the zenith area. This might be worth considering with the CG5 as well - long tube refractors on equatorial mounts can lead to some contortions in getting to the eyepiece / finder !

Thats another point for the Lyra Optics 102mm F/11 - I believe is has a rotatable focuser which I'm not sure the TAL 100 has.

[Mike73]

Mike,

What kind of pier setup do you have in mind.

I am lucky where I am. The back of my house faces west and overlooks fields and forest so very little light pollution. A permanent fixture to place an equatorial mount would be fantastic.

That's one of the reasons I might consider that Antares in the future. If I can make the base stable enough then wobbling won't be so much of an issue.

Best,

Tony

Not too sure at the moment Tony, early days yet but a quick search showed this old thread.

[nightfisher]

The Tal has a 360 degree rotating focuser, this is achieved by slackening a very large knurled ring with no loss of colimation

[John]

The Tal has a 360 degree rotating focuser, this is achieved by slackening a very large knurled ring with no loss of colimation

Thanks Jules - the TAL's have had a number of focuser's over the years and I've lost touch with the latest pattern !.

Interestingly, the crayford on the TAL 125 Apolar(s) that I was sent to test, although looking just the same as the TAL 100's, did not have that feature. That might have been because of the optical elements buried in the top section of the Apolars focuser though.

[Mr Fiery Jack]

In my view the AZ4 and TAL combo push usabilty just a little when you get up to 150x and above. The tiniest grease shakes the view around with a good 3-4 second settle down time. Its a long and heavy old tube on a Tal 100€RS. the ED 100 is much shorter and lighter and is in my view the perfect match. As John says an extension is a valuable observing aid and well worth considering.

[foundaplanet]

Hello Tony,

I have posted a bit in reviews on scope here...

[Catweazel]

Hey Tony, as I expected, this thread is really interesting. Something that occurred to me is this; I have 3 scopes, The Evostar 120, a 200P reflector and a Megrez 72 refractor, and although these cover most of the bases, the scope that I end up using the most by far is the Megrez, as it is such an easy grab and go scope! So although I spent a lot of time as a beginner agonizing over whether to buy a Evo 120 or a 200P, its the smallest scope I have that gets the most use (this is mainly due to the weather). So, if, as you say, the Tal is talking to you, I would buy the Tal; the aperture issue won't feel like a big deal once you have it, as you will be too busy learning and enjoying the great views that you will get from it. Just a thought...

[Mr Fiery Jack]

I still say go with the TAL if its an achromatic scope you want. As for the aperture argument. There is vertically no difference between a 4 inch and a 5 inch refractor, you certainly need a good sense of imagination. How much difference is there between an 8 inch and a 10 inch or a 10 inch to a 12 inch dob, almost nothing, certainly not enough to warrant the up-grade so what difference three quarters of an inch in a refractor? There is not a massive difference in quality between a Russian and Chinese achro, but there is a small difference and that difference is Russian.

[Mr Fiery Jack]

The TAL dispite reports that they have a quirky build, and I certainly would confirm this to be the case they are sooooo much nicer than Chinese achromatic scopes to live with. The build quality is reassuringly soviet, think tank, sub 30 degrees and still functioning. The kind of scope you could throw down the stairs and be concerned that the stairs might be damaged. The finder scope is quite simply the best on the Meercat.... Simples./

[Mr Fiery Jack]

The ED100 is still visually a better scope (its not as sexy as a TAL 100RS though)

[nightfisher]

i dont recommend throwing a tal down the stairs, but i get the point

[John]

The TAL dispite reports that they have a quirky build, and I certainly would confirm this to be the case they are sooooo much nicer than Chinese achromatic scopes to live with. The build quality is reassuringly soviet, think tank, sub 30 degrees and still functioning. The kind of scope you could throw down the stairs and be concerned that the stairs might be damaged. The finder scope is quite simply the best on the Meercat.... Simples./

It's the quality control that is of concern to me. Having seen quite a few TAL scopes personally and read of a number more, especially their "flagship" models, I just feel they should do better with regard to the state they leave the factory. Dealers would need to dismantle, clean out and check the collimation of these scopes before shipping them onto customers, if they want to be sure that the customer is happy.

The TAL Apolar 125's that I was sent (direct from TAL) were, apart from the optical damage to one, frankly poorly finished. Paintwork was patchy, tube seams not rounded off (ie: egg profile tubes !), internal blackening was patchy, baffles that let through light, and the finder had a piece of shiny plastic as a dew shield. This was a £1,500 scope that was competing with Skywatcher ED120's, Equinox ED 120's and Meade 127mm Triplets.

2 of the 3 TAL 125 R's that I've read about have had optical issues to be sorted out. These are F/9 achromats for goodness sake - a fairly simple scope design to produce. TAL should be able to produce these to a decent quality easily I would have thought. The Chinese seem to manage it with the 120mm F/8.3's and the 127mm F/9.4's.

My TAL 100 RT, bought in 1999 was better than the more recent TAL's I've seen but still fairly "agricultural" in finish and some of the "quirks" were rather annoying such as not being able to deal with 2" eyepieces, bringing some 1.25" designs to focus and having hairs (eyelashes ?) on the inside elements of the objective lens (it was a new scope).

The 102mm F/11 achromats sold by Lyra Optics and others for quite modest prices are Chinese and will, I hope, act as an incentive to TAL to improve their standards of finish and quality control.

Quirky can be nice but poorly and inconsistently finished is not so nice.

[TonyD]

Thanks again for all the information that keeps flowing from the forum. Proving very interesting reading, and informs me a great deal - so while I am still uhm-ing and ahh-ing a great deal, it is now for different reasons of balancing decent and reliable information, rather than down to total bewilderment!

And, don't worry, I have no intention of throwing any telescopes down the stairs to check out robustness.

Regarding the "well used EQ5 Mount and tripod (Maxvision)" for £70 I have seen, does anyone have any experience with this set up? Comments would be welcome. If a tripod and mount is fully functioning and stable (even if well used, knocked around, scratched and scuffed or scratched) I don't care. As long as it is stable with the equipment sitting on top of it, and has all the adjustments and bearings working in order, it will do for me! Of course, I would like my scope to look as pristeen and sexy (even in a Russion Soviet way) as possible...

The TAL is talking to me, but Lyra is whispering in my ear, too ...........

Cheers

- Tony D

[nightfisher]

It's the quality control that is of concern to me. Having seen quite a few TAL scopes personally and read of a number more, especially their "flagship" models, I just feel they should do better with regard to the state they leave the factory. Dealers would need to dismantle, clean out and check the collimation of these scopes before shipping them onto customers, if they want to be sure that the customer is happy.

The TAL Apolar 125's that I was sent (direct from TAL) were, apart from the optical damage to one, frankly poorly finished. Paintwork was patchy, tube seams not rounded off (ie: egg profile tubes !), internal blackening was patchy, baffles that let through light, and the finder had a piece of shiny plastic as a dew shield. This was a £1,500 scope that was competing with Skywatcher ED120's, Equinox ED 120's and Meade 127mm Triplets.

2 of the 3 TAL 125 R's that I've read about have had optical issues to be sorted out. These are F/9 achromats for goodness sake - a fairly simple scope design to produce. TAL should be able to produce these to a decent quality easily I would have thought. The Chinese seem to manage it with the 120mm F/8.3's and the 127mm F/9.4's.

My TAL 100 RT, bought in 1999 was better than the more recent TAL's I've seen but still fairly "agricultural" in finish and some of the "quirks" were rather annoying such as not being able to deal with 2" eyepieces, bringing some 1.25" designs to focus and having hairs (eyelashes ?) on the inside elements of the objective lens (it was a new scope).

The 102mm F/11 achromats sold by Lyra Optics and others for quite modest prices are Chinese and will, I hope, act as an incentive to TAL to improve their standards of finish and quality control.

Quirky can be nice but poorly and inconsistently finished is not so nice.

This is a very valid point, for the time being, though i do have to say both the Tals i have owned were finished to a relatively high standard, having owned my 100RS from new, and having a 200K Klestof for a short while.

I have heard a strong rumour that no more Tal astro equipment will be imported from russia, i hope this is not the case.

One thing i can comment on is the optical figuring of the 100RS in direct comparison of the chinese 100mm, the Tal is far superior to the chinese, i would prefer to purchase a scope that is optically well figured and a bit challenged cosmetically rather than a sleek and shiny scope with imperfect optics ( i am not including the Lyra in the poor chinese group)

[Marki]

I think John is right, from a purely objective view.

It has to be said the paint and finish on my TAL100rs is poor. However, the baffling and blackening inside are absolutely fine, the crayford works like a dream and the optics/coatings are excellent. It was also clean throughout. Along with the excellent 25mm plossl and the good 6x30 finder and the great diagonal, I think its a bargain for £250 new. In this case the mechanics and performance more than outweigh the appearance.

The 102mm F/11 achromats sold by Lyra Optics and others for quite modest prices are Chinese and will, I hope, act as an incentive to TAL to improve their standards of finish and quality control.

I can only agree with John on this point.

[TonyD]

I have heard a strong rumour that no more Tal astro equipment will be imported from russia,

... meaning that the TAL stuff is to be produced elsewhere, or there will be not distributor for companies in the UK, or TAL itself is stopping production of these scopes?

Sounds ominous. I hope it is just a rumour.

- Tony

[nightfisher]

... meaning that the TAL stuff is to be produced elsewhere, or there will be not distributor for companies in the UK, or TAL itself is stopping production of these scopes?

Sounds ominous. I hope it is just a rumour.

- Tony

I have heard that due to shipping costs and other economic reasons Tal are not planning to ship to the UK

[Mr Fiery Jack]

The TAL I had was perfect, I thought the RS 100 was fairly immune from dodgy optics. The Lyra also needs a finder and a diagonal added to the bill, another 120 quid at least. I don't want to rattle on here with my own preferences but you could easily buy a ED100 second hand for that money. ED100s come up for sale a lot more often than ED120s do.

[AndyH]

In theory the Tal 100RS is £102 for the OTA

1.25" diagonal = £35

25mm Plossl = £28

6.3mm Plossl = £25

Screw in reticle = £6

6x30 finder & brkt = £43

Tube Rings = £11

Total = £148

Just a bit of fun, but the pricing is pretty much correct.

Andy.

[nightfisher]

In theory the Tal 100RS is £102 for the OTA

1.25" diagonal = £35

25mm Plossl = £28

6.3mm Plossl = £25

Screw in reticle = £6

6x30 finder & brkt = £43

Tube Rings = £11

Total = £148

Just a bit of fun, but the pricing is pretty much correct.

Andy.

Excellent value

[Qualia]

Ay, Fiery, when you take, for the sake of argument, a new finder and diagonal plus the OTA, you're talking about a new Lyra telescope at about twice the price of a new Tal 100rs (the ED 100 is coming in at about 3x the price). The great feature, then, arising from this thread is the luxury we have at the moment - be a shame if Tal do stop exporting - of being spoilt for choice of being able to buy into some really tasty refractors catering to our individual needs and depth of pocket and all being on pretty much equal footing.

[John]

Are we talking new or used prices here ?

The lowest cost new TAL 100 RS seems to be around £240 for the optical tube plus the bits that Andy mentions, less a diagonal. Or is there s source that I'm missing

[Qualia]

Evostar 100ED Price: £625.

Lyra's 4" f/11 Price: £380 (will need diagonal, viewfinder and perhaps a couple of cheapish EPs to be operational), say, not much change from £500.

Tal 100rs Price: £249.

[AndyH]

Just having a bit of a lighthearted giggle, subtracting the included accessories, from £250.

As far as I'm aware that's all the bits you get* and the costs are from the winter 12/13 base price list, published recently in Russia.

* Is it, Tal 100RS owners?