Retailers & Sponsors Changes

[Adam Hinds2]

gsjag please leave it. i answered a question, that is all.

jamie, this is the one and only comment I have made online about this. it is 2 sentences.

You, as ADMIN, should know better than asking me to keep it private and then postings your detailed response to me on the forum. Especially as it is not 100% accurate. And why start threatening to post communications online?

To quote "as this is the last time i am going to warn you about it.". For the record you, or no other admn or moderator, has had to warn me about anything as I have not made any other comments. So please don't infer that I have.

Now lets leave it.

[gsjag]

Sorry for any confusion. Yes, I agree with Ant's statement and based upon the way the forum seems to be run, my decision is to leave.

Thanks John for your well wishes and may I return them to you and everyone else on the forum (even you Jamie).

Regards

Gary

[Adam Hinds2]

the last post would have been posted quicker had I not had to take a 15 min phone call.

[daz]

This is ridiculous.

This thread won't be locked and neither will peoples profiles be deleted (it buggers up other threads anyway), but there are things that people need to understand here.

ADMIN do NOT earn anything from this forum - either in cold, hard cash, additional rebates/discounts or backhanders from any retailer - now or in the past or future

We ALL have jobs, families and other things to worry about - the same as 99% of members on here.

Changes are slow to be made because we take time to discuss them and try and ensure the changes are for the best FOR THE FORUM AND THE MEMBERSHIP. If it's wrong, we'll change it - but until we put things in place, we won't know - despite our best efforts

The forum is free for you to join - there is no cost involved to you BUT there is a cost involved to us for hosting the site and providing the bandwidth to allow you access. See the first point above!

If we do not look to grow the bandwidth and hosting capacity, who would be the first to complain about slow page times?

We are open to suggestions for improvement (1200+ heads being better than 6) but, we are not a democracy. The forum was set up to allow people with a like minded interest in a hobby come together and share experiences. This remains at our core

Gary, I for one hope you do not leave.........

[Adam Hinds2]

gsjag, the sentence you have quoted clearly mentions that Adam has posted his opinions about the changes to sponsors and retailers before and it has been mentioned. Jamie also mentions that Adam was informed of the changes prior to them being made and his claims of not knowing are not true.

If Adam has a problem, then surely that's an issue for Admin and Adam to resolve between them, not here. After all, would you like everyone to discuss your dirty laundry in public? There's no censorship here but some things are certainly best discussed in private between the two parties concerned.

Tony..

sorry, i remembered this comment had not been addressed.

This is absolutely untrue - the comment aboive is the only time I have mentioned this outside of PM, and it was only in response to a direct question and answering the question, and nothing more. I would never do as you say.

[stargazer1980]

Ive only been a member since march this year and i have to say this place beats the rest hands down. I dont care what anybody else says! We get it for free ( of which we should be greatful in the least)!

Right! Please correct me if i have not understood this correctly!

Im not having a go at ANYONE here!

However, if the increase in server costs is due to the high demand and capacity of bandwidth to support the site, then if 1 retailer and only one wishes to be the one (or the favourite) to foot those costs, then it should be that they are the main sponsor for the site! If the other retailers dont wish to pay, then rightly so, they should only be allowed to advertise in there own retailers section, as they have not put their hands in their own pockets to help! If they want a main banner, pay up!!

Now i dont like all these threats of leaving the site and blah blah blah! To be honest its outrageous! Were all a close knit community and hopefully we have made some good friends, i know i have!

The decisions that have been taken are for the good of the forum and for its members!

ADMIN, out of their own good will help out to run and supervise this site for FREE! Which i wholly commend! GOOD ON YA!

NOW Peeps can we have no more slag g ing off please! Decisions have been made and thats that! It's not our decision to say what goes on but admin, out of interest of everyone else!

Im not censoring peoples expressions or their thoughts, but please, lets keep it friendly!

Thanks

Darren

[daz]

It's not a question of paying for advertising banners, as this means dealing with invoices and payments and requires even more administration that it does currently.

Nor is it a question of only one retailer wishing to be the sponsor. FLO was born as a result (indirectlly!) of SGL and the decision was made by ADMIN to offer the sponsorship to FLO. If FLO had refused, we would have sought sponsorship elsewhere. When FLO came into being, Steve relinquished his GM status, as has Greg, as he felt the two would have been seen as unethical in the eyes of the membership.

Being sponsor, however, does not entitle FLO to make any decision, or indeed influence them, on the running of the forum. That responsibility lies with ADMIN and will continue to do so.

If people wish to leave, that is their prerogative and choice - the same as it is to join. But to reiterate, their profile will not be deleted.

Despite all of the above comments and perceived ill-feelings, ADMIN want to work with all retailers for the benefit of the astronomy community in general - not just SGL'ers. If we can provide feedback on quality/service/products then this can only be good for us all in the long term. We fully appreciate that to Adam, Steve, Bern and the others, this is their livelihood and we have a mutual interest to see them grow and prosper as well.

[stargazer1980]

It's not a question of paying for advertising banners, as this means dealing with invoices and payments and requires even more administration that it does currently.

Nor is it a question of only one retailer wishing to be the sponsor. FLO was born as a result (indirectlly!) of SGL and the decision was made by ADMIN to offer the sponsorship to FLO. If FLO had refused, we would have sought sponsorship elsewhere. When FLO came into being, Steve relinquished his GM status, as has Greg, as he felt the two would have been seen as unethical in the eyes of the membership.

Being sponsor, however, does not entitle FLO to make any decision, or indeed influence them, on the running of the forum. That responsibility lies with ADMIN and will continue to do so.

Apologie daz for not getting the facts correct!

Keep up the great work ADMIN! And heres to the continued success and growth of ALL retailers!

Darren

[GordonCopestake]

On a completly different side note, I noticed that when registering for the forum, there is no "acceptable use policy" or a demand to follow the rules (or even a link to the rules) from the register page. For new users it might be worth adding "SGL is not a democracy, but a benevelant dictatorship" or words to that effect, and perhaps a demand that users follow the rules?

[saturn5]

Well i'm going to put my 2p's worth in here and say that there is no need for the "this is the last time i'm going to warn you" and "this is not a democracy" attitude to be done in full view of the forum,and Jamie whilst i agree Adam was out of order to have a go in public, 2 WRONGS dont make a right,do they!

And did you need to add "and you are right gsjag this does have very little to do with you" all that did was get his back up.

I just wish you could take the jahmanson line in moderating.

[Ant]

and what about the Admins backs...?

I personally do not care if you stay or go.

Do you know how many hours it takes to run bakups of SGL?

To discuss and impliment changes - did you know we have a second SGL? which we use to test new layouts on.

Permissions are a nightmare to get right.

The monthly guide - takes me hours and hours of time.

Answering PM's from people asking how to do stuff.

Having to deal with threads like this

All we want in return is for people to be happy and enjoy SGL!

So the bottom line people is I do not care if you want to leave - that goes for anyone here - including retailers - which incidently are only here BECAUSE WE THOUGHT THAT YOU, THE MEMBERS, MIGHT BENEFIT FROM IT.

So goodbye gsjag, if you start your own forum, send me the address so I can come criticise you/it.

[saturn5]

and what about the Admins backs...?

I personally do not care if you stay or go.

Do you know how many hours it takes to run bakups of SGL?

To discuss and impliment changes - did you know we have a second SGL? which we use to test new layouts on.

Permissions are a nightmare to get right.

The monthly guide - takes me hours and hours of time.

Answering PM's from people asking how to do stuff.

Having to deal with threads like this

All we want in return is for people to be happy and enjoy SGL!

So the bottom line people is I do not care if you want to leave - that goes for anyone here - including retailers - which incidently are only here BECAUSE WE THOUGHT THAT YOU, THE MEMBERS, MIGHT BENEFIT FROM IT.

So goodbye gsjag, if you start your own forum, send me the address so I can come criticise you/it.

This is exactly what i'm going on about.Was there any need for that last comment,or "I personally dont care if you stay or go".In case you haven't noticed people are happy here until someone starts dictating when there is no need to and with an attitude of "the bottom line people is i do not care if you want to leave" then more may leave that you bargain for.

[Ant]

Then go, I take it that this was thinly veiled thread that you might leave?

Do you want to go? Please feel free!

Trust me - I am extremely calm usually I haven't lost my temper yet but I am getting close. If you could see the look in my eye's right now you would be posting anywhere near this section!

I want EVERYONE to know exactly where I'm coming from.

[russ]

SGL is not a democracy.

YIKES!!!!

[CELESCOPE]

OK OK ,As an elderly member here and GM i think this thread has gone on long enough, the longer we carry on abusing everyone ,personalities will get hurt ,

Many bad words have been spoken ,and alot of ppl hurt, so can we please let the Admin team get on with their job, and let us, as members get on with enjoying what we hope is a place to come ,relax and partake.

Cheers

Old Rog and a very wise old Rog .

[Ant]

I'm surprised at that Russ?

We may live in democracy, but we do not work in one (or at least I don't).

The people that started SGL still run it(with one exception - but you can come back anytime you want ), the team has got bigger and I hope that we have mode good choices in that team.

But the way forward and the way in which SGL grows can only be made by a few or nothing would get done. Imagine fr a moment that this was a democracy and we asked what colour (a really simple question) the background should be - you'd get hundreds of different answers.

This is the problem - even amongst Admin we disagree on some things and this is why it takes time to sort things out.

We ask opinions on things, what people would like etc and we get lots of answers - some we can do some we can't.

We have made this decision with the the best interests of SGL at the centre. Some people are not going to like it.

I personally answered all the questions that Adam asked me and then there was a PM full of more questions (Lets not forget that all this is about a service he gets for nothing) which I answered.

I think it was around 4 or 5 days before we switched Adam from a sponsor to a retailer - so it didn't happen overnight. The initial PM did (obviously) but the process of removing Adam's banner and changing his status to retailer and answering the communications from him took days.

I feel that we have treated everyone as fairly as possible - bearing in mind that we knew Adam wasn't going to be pleased. But we needed to make happen the changes that we needed to effect to take SGL onto the next level.

This is what we have done.

I would really like this to be the end of this thread, but no doubt it won't be.

I would like to say Sorry to Gary (gsjag) my comment was a little out of order - but I was angry, no excuse I know - but alas the only one I have.

Ant

[CELESCOPE]

THE END

[Jamie]

Hi Saturn5

I know that 2 wrongs don't make a right i had one of my angry moments back there.

Though I still stand by what i said.

Adam could have easily answered the questions that have been put to him without

the bit about how shoddy things were here. (that was an out and out dig at our efforts)

and like i said before i wasn't about to put up with it.

I did not in any way try to censor Adam or anyone else i just warned him not to make any more "unjust curt" comments.

The word censor was banded about as a weapon thinking that because it was used i would back down (not likely)

On subjects that are critical to SGL i only give out the one warning then i act.

This is to stop the back and forward backbiting and bitching that has happened since

gsjag jumped on this thread and went out of his way to wynd me up (playing the censor card)

Plus if i had allowed Adams comment to go unchallenged and gsjag's wynd up to go unchallenged that would set precedence for everyone to have a free for all when ever the notion took them (sorry folks not gonna happen)

I do care that gsjag has decided to leave but i have a sneaky suspicion that leaving was on his mind/agenda before his first post in this matter.

I also believe that anyone willing to drop SGL just like that doesn't deserve to be here in the first place, and not just because Admin/moderators put in a lot of effort to keep this place going but because the efforts of all our members (we all invest time to make this such a great place)

Sorry Rog it took me ages to type this with all thats going on round me at the moment so i as you can see i am not wasting my efforts ....

[CELESCOPE]

No Prob Jamie.

I THINK ITS CALMING NOW .

THE END

[russ]

I'm surprised at that Russ?

I know what you mean but it just came across a little "like it and lump it" kind of thing. But you are right, the forum would crumble if every member had a say in every little decision.

[jonifive]

C'mon fellas...can't we draw a line through this unsavory business?

This is the first "spat" I have experienced on SGL in my time here and frankly it is quite uncomfortable and upsetting. SGL has always been a bit of a calm area away from the bickering and arguing we all experience in our daily lives. This calm is down to the simple rules and hard work that Admin and the mods put into it. I for one appreciate their time and effort, but hope that in the future any disagreements can be dealt with behind the scenes so we can all get on with a little Astronomy.

Can I request that this thread be closed? It would be a shame for it to continue.

JV

[russ]

Some silly things said that should be forgotten so we can just enjoy the hobby.

So I agree, close the thread.

[Jamie]

Your wish is my command JV/Russ 8)