New to stargazing but at a cross-roads already!

[Dreamweaver]

Hi there,

I wasn’t sure on how to post a message but hopefully I’ve sorted it.

I'm completely new to stargazing. It has taken me totally by surprise how addictive it is and is growing on me like a raging uncontrolled fire!

Just discovered Stargazer Lounge and am impressed by the level of support and knowledge from members old and new!

I have always enjoyed looking at the night sky since a young lad and had a pair of binoculars from the age of 14 but sadly they were dropped onto a hard surface by a relation some years ago and that was the end of that. However I have recently bought a nice pair of Helios 10x50 bins. I get them out as often as I can, weather permitting of course, and learn as mush as I can about where things are in the night sky.

I have now ended up buying a Sky Watcher 90mm Mak on an EQ1 mount for around £170 from a shop in London (very helpful staff). I wanted something that was easy to transport on my motorbike essentially but have now got a car so am after bigger and better.

From my location in south east London there is of course a lot of light pollution but notwithstanding that I have managed to locate and view Saturn (superb views of the rings!), Jupiter with some basic detail of the bandings and maybe the dark bit which I think is a storm?! I have also observed Mars and Venus, although apart from seeing subtle dark patches on Mars I have not yet been able to discern the polar cap.

I have viewed M3, M11, M13 and M31 and the NGC 886 and 869 but to get a better view of everything I I have to drive out to north Kent for darker skies whenever I can.

I know the bigger the aperture the more light grasp and better for deep sky objects so, as DSO appears to be my particular interest at the moment, I am wondering what would be the next sensible upgrade from the 90-mm Mak?

I have observed very dark skies in an area between Oxford and Swindon within the last week and it’s been the best observing session I have encountered to date. The above mentioned DSOs were much better than from north Kent but I still feel that the 90mm Mak falls short of what I am looking for.

I have seen reviews on the SW120 StarTravel, SW120 Evostar, Skymax 127 and the Skymax 150. Which are all within my price range.

I understand the concept of long and short focal length and the associated issues surrounding pushing up magnification on faster scopes but at the end of the day I want to have a telescope that will be able to resolve a reasonable amount of detail when observing star and globular clusters especially. I like to observe planets too but I seem to get more pleasure out of observing DSO as they are so far away and I just love looking at stars bundled together. I would also like to see better colour variation too between stars. Albireo looks great with its blue companion but I feel it’s rather subtle through the 90mm Mak.

I have purchased an adjustable astronomers chair which is truly amazing and I totally recommend this to everyone who wants to get the most out of their observing sessions. I have also adapted a hood that completely blocks out all light (like old time photographers) and doubles as a guard against those horrid midges.

I have never viewed through a Dob and to be honest I think I prefer the idea of refractors and/or compact scopes for ease of transportation and less fiddling around with collimation etc, however I remain open minded and if Dobs are the way to go then I will consider them accordingly.

I would appreciate any thoughts on a single telescope (if there is such a thing) that would be suitable to resolve DSOs (so at least they are not dim fuzzy patches) as well as being suitable for planetary viewing. I’m not into astrophotography so no worries there at the moment. I understand that cooling down times is a big factor too for some scopes.

I have a Celestron 32mm plossl and Celestron 7mm X-Cel LX and of course the standard 25mm and 10mm that came with the Sky Watcher 90mm Mak.

[nightfisher]

200 dobsonian is one of the best for dso and planets, if you take one of these to a dark site, you will be very happy

[LukeSkywatcher]

Hi Dreamweaver. Welcome to SGL.

You seem to be doing very well already with your 90mm. I understand your want to upgrade to a refractor because they are easier to maintain then reflectors. To be honest there really isnt much involved in the upkeep of a reflector (They are also know as Newt's). A Dob is simply a Newt (reflector) on a Dobsonian base. You can buy a Newt on a EQ mount also.

The beauty of Dobs (reflectors) in general is that the mirrors they use are cheaper to make then the glass lens on refractors, so they are cheaper and the mirrors can be a lot bigger then the glass lens on refractors. Refractors can be VERY expensive once you go over say 3" aperture.

I have a 90mm refractor and i upgraded to a 5" Dob (SkyWatcher Heritage 130P).

I'd certainly consider an upgrade to about 150mm or even 200mm. These would be Newt's, either on an EQ mount or a Dobsonian mount.

Hope this helps.

P.S.~~~if you are planning on doing imaging with a DSLR camera then an EQ mount is the way to go.

Hope this helps.

[Capricorn]

I have seen reviews on the SW120 StarTravel, SW120 Evostar, Skymax 127 and the Skymax 150.

I would avoid the StarTravek, too much CA.

The Evostar will be a meter long, if that is OK then it seems good.

The Skymax 127 and 150 are both Mak's so will have a long focal length and a narrow field of view.

The long focal length means that magnifications can be achieved but that does not help DSO viewing when a wider view is better.

I like refractors and would personally go for the Evostar 120.

You will get good magnifications, the 7mm will give 142x, enough for most things, and with the 32 plossl will give 1.5 degeree view, just enough for Andromeda. To me that means it covers just about all bases.

Concerning the mount a quick look at FLO and there is little difference between the EQ3-2 and the EQ5 mount (manual only), so I would suggest you consider the EQ5.

ALternatives:- The Tal 100RS has a good reputation, but smaller then the Evostar 120 in diameter so not so good for DSO's.

From the options then the Evostar 120, if possible on an EQ5.

[Capricorn]

If you are patient enough and if it is close enough try getting along to one of the Guildford Astro club meetings and seeing what is there. They have largish gathering very so often.

[lestergibson]

In my not very well informed opinion, I'd say you're after aperture so the more the better and the best way to get more bang for the buck is a dobsonian. The Skyliner 200p seems to be the default all-rounder recommendation on SGL so I bought mine with a fair bit of confidence. Still getting to grips with it, though; in fact I just collimated for the first time tonigh there after lots of reading and stressing over something that turned out to be a piece of cake. Then the freakin clouds closed in...... of course. Remember, I'm a noob but the very knowledgeable people here will give you good advice because there could be a lot more options.

[lestergibson]

I see they aleady have:)

[LukeSkywatcher]

Its hard to advise without knowing your budget, but what about something like this:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/se-series/celestron-nexstar-4se.html

Or even the 5" version

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/se-series/celestron-nexstar-5se.html

I have the 8" version and LOVE it. It was a BIG investment and it will be the last scope i buy.

[Dreamweaver]

Rapid response from Nightfisher, Luke Skywatcher, Capricorn and Lestergibson.

Thanks guys.

I guess a 'Newt' is the way to go for DSOs. I feel a lot of reading coming on in relation to reflectors as I know nothing about them. However I am drawn to the simplicity of a refractor and the Evostar 120 does seem a nice bit of kit. The answer of course would be to have both a refractor and a reflector if finances allow. I have been to the Isle of Sky twice on holiday (before I was into stargazing) and I recall there being totally black skies with thousands of stars. This surely would be the ideal place to have a large reflector.

I don't have a garden to have anything semi permanently set up so for me it's sort of a grab and go situation with a suitable telescope. A big reflector I think would be more suited in my circumstances to take on holiday in the car or if I'm staying at friends who live in dark sky places.

I will endeavour to view through a big reflector before I crack open my piggy bank but it does seem, I think, that a large Newtonian is the way to go for serious deep sky viewing.

Many thanks to all of you for your input.

[Dreamweaver]

For me I don't like the Goto telescopes. Half the fun is the challenge of trying to find the object and actually knowing where it is in the sky. For me it would be like having an automatic fishing rod that had a button on it and when pressed it would simply serve up the fish you have selected, via a menu, at the end of your rod as soon as you have cast! I'm not at all into fishing but for me the Goto aspect of astronomy somehow demystifies everything and has no skill. Might as well have an electric fishing rod! LOL.

I do appreciate your suggestion though Luke Skywatcher, cheers.

[LukeSkywatcher]

For me I don't like the Goto telescopes. Half the fun is the challenge of trying to find the object and actually knowing where it is in the sky. For me it would be like having an automatic fishing rod that had a button on it and when pressed it would simply serve up the fish you have selected, via a menu, at the end of your rod as soon as you have cast! I'm not at all into fishing but for me the Goto aspect of astronomy somehow demystifies everything and has no skill. Might as well have an electric fishing rod! LOL.

I do appreciate your suggestion though Luke Skywatcher, cheers.

I completely agee with you. Most of the fun in astronomy is the hunt and reward of finding objects under your own steam (manual scopes). I am talking from 30yrs experience using bins and manual scopes.

I love the "hunt" and the rewarding feeling you get from locating objects. Nothing beats it. It is only since Dec 2011 that i changed over to Go-To and that was simply because it allowed me to have the biggest aperture scope that i could have/manage (i am in a wheelchair).

I haver been a manual bins/scope observer for 30+ yrs. I am now in my self proclaimed "retirement observing yrs" and the Go-To lets me sit back and relax and still observe the wonders of the universe.

[Dreamweaver]

Full respect to you Luke skywatcher!

[LukeSkywatcher]

You seem to me to have a good head on your shoulders and will make the right choice for you.

I wish you all the best. Plenty to think about.

The right scope for you is the one you will use often.

[JamesM]

I would certainly agree with Capricorn's point of 'try before you buy' by going along to a local astro observation session to see what the guys are using and to compare notes. What is also important, is to check out the eyepieces that the guys/gals are using as that can make a difference to the view! The Skyliner 200P (UK's best selling scope) is a very good performer and would possibly be my starting point if DSO's are now on the menu for you. Easy to use, good aperture for different targets and easily transportable in the car.

Goto is great and is particularly useful IF it doesn't come out of the same budget for the scope - no point in being shown an object if the scope's not big enough to do it justice. I understand the argument about the chase being more important than the kill, its just I like my fish supper early so I have got all night to enjoy it! :grin:

James

[Dreamweaver]

I will certainly read up on the 200p. JamesM you cover the rationale behind the Goto very well and I guess, perhaps after a while, may even go to the Goto myself.

There is a meet in Regents Park once a month, weather permitting, and I shall compare notes as you say.

The binoculars get the most use, pity there isn’t a super zoom facility up to 200X with unfolding legs and a built in reclining chair that all fits neatly into your pocket .

[Stu]

A couple of comments to add.

I being to Guildford AS and they are having an public observing session on 22nd September where there should be plenty of scopes. I hope to be there, check out the details on their website.

Second point, don't discount the convenience of something like a 127mm mak. They will give good, near refractor like views of many dso's, it's only the really big ones they struggle with, and bins are good on these too.

Get a scope you will use! Not one too big to lug around.

Cheers

Stu

[rwilkey]

It's very difficult I think choosing between a reflector and a refractor, both have their attractions, but for me the best scope for DSO's is a reflector, mimimum 150mm, you need the light-gathering power for DSO's. On the other hand a refractor is very convenient, no maintenance and great to use on an AZ mount. I would be hard pushed to choose either, the refractor is so convenient, especially if you have limited mobility like myself. The refractor is great for the planets, Moon, double stars and the brighter DSO's. But if you want to chase galaxies like M81/M82 and some of the feinter 'planetary' nebula then a reflector is the way to go. Good resolution on globular clusters too. If I had to choose between the two, then I would choose the refractor for ease of use and low (no) maintenance. The Evostar 102mm or 120mm would be my choice, cracking scopes by all accounts.

[Woking]

For visual and non-GOTO it's worth considering an AZ mount if you want a frac. If reflector you might as well go for a dob.

EQ mounts are great for motorised tracking and GOTO, but for purely manual an AZ or dob is much easier to handle. Also, why pay the extra for an EQ mount if you will not be using it for it's main features.

Most manual visual observers tend to go down the dob route for DSOs......it's also less 'stuff' to lug to and from the car if travelling to a dark field site.

[Ganymede12]

I'm saving up for a Skyliner 200P Dobsonian. It' simple and should give great views.

I'd say it would be a great upgrade from a 90mm refractor.

[swamp thing]

Hi

Well my advice is a little different, as you already have a small grab n go for those quick little forays and times around the full moon.

My choice would be get the biggest Dob you can possibly afford/transport.

After a dark sky, aperture, will determine what you will be able to see in the night sky. The larger your scope, the more you will see. I would look at a 10" minimum.

[Astro Imp]

As you live in South East London Crayford Astro Sociey might be handy for you.

[Dreamweaver]

Thanks Astro Imp for the heads up on Crayford Astro Soc. Will deffo check them out.

It’s great getting everyone’s thoughts and comments. Fantastic! Thank you all.

I will certainly try before I buy. That is very good advice and will confirm hopefully what would be the next sensible scope for me to get once I‘ve tried a few. I don’t want to end up getting aperture fever and buying something that requires help from Eddie Stobart in order to move it.

I will deffo get a large Newt for serious viewing at some point as I intend to live under dark skies in the not too distant future but for now my lifestyle is truly grab and go and if there is a scope that can resolve stars to the extent that is acceptable to me then that would suffice for the time being. I know that if I got something physically too big (have to think of storage and moving it up and down a large flight of stairs with a dogleg and negotiating two mountain bicycles in the hall and a motor bike in the front garden) then it would not get used as much as my 90mm Mak is at the present time.

I do feel a refractor or a Mak coming on...

[Dreamweaver]

Ring nebula M57 seen tonight from Blackheath despite the moon and eventually the clouds. It was extremely faint though. Took me a while to find it but a wow factor none the less. Just grabbed the 90mm Mak on a whim and was determined to locate it. Next time it will be a bit easier. Note to myself: wear warmer clothes.

[Kef9]

Hi Matey

I just returned your PM and did a search to see if you had posted a thread. As discussed in my response I personally recommend the ST150 for DSO's as you get the portability, no collimation issues, tracking if you get a goto mount (and equatorial movement even if you don't), maximum light throughput for the aperture (no central obstruction) and chromatic aberration is no big issue in this area.

My 2p's worth but others may disagree!

[Dreamweaver]

Thanks Kef9 for your prompt PM. Yes portability is a major factor for me and as my interest is in searching for and observing some of the brighter DSOs then it looks like the ST150 is a strong contender. However I’m lucky enough to have access to the roof of my flat at the rear which affords 360 views. I’m thinking platform for telescope. I’m thinking dump on it a large dob. A very large dob. The roof is mono pitched and not terribly steep so minimal risk of sliding off during construction of platform. This could be good.

Then when I eventually move out of and away from London and live under dark skies I simply reinstall the huge dob to the new garden or roof, whichever is more suitable. Nice.

So the ST150 seems to be fitting the bill as a grab and go wide field DSO. Liking it.

Just need to look through one to satisfy the 'try before buy' thingy.