Recommendations for discouraged beginner

[RainLaw]

Hi, I bought my first scope back in December (200p dob) & tbh not had alot of joy with it, I live in the middle of Birmingham (no car) so LP is a problem for 1 but when ever i'm out with the scope I have real problems finding what I'm looking for (already fitted a telrad) & the odd time I find it im disappointed with my views.

I've been thinking about buying a small scope with a goto to help get some of the spark back and was thinking of a Mak 127 SLT. From what I've seen on the forums it seems to be a pritty solid choice.

I've been doing some AP from a fixed tripod (more then veiwing with the dob), would it be worth while saving a lil bit more cash to go for a Nexstar 5SE. Would that improve my potentail for AP with the scope aswell as my viewing?

[swamp thing]

If you are disappointed with the views that your 8" Dob provides then I hardly think a smaller 5" scope is going to help matters.

The Maks Goto may help you find stuff granted, but it's not going to give as good a view as the Dob when it's in the eyepiece.

Not an AP person myself but for deep sky AP you want speed not focal length.

[paul mc c]

If light pollution is a big problem maybe you should try an L.P.R filter it may help,or observe double stars,and planets or the moon and sketching what you observe,there is plenty to keep you going.

[Digz]

Don't be disillusioned. Try an LPR filter but I would resist reducing you aperture. Also if you seriously want to get into AP the nexstar probably isn't the best choice. You want to be looking for a GEM mount. Also get yourself a decent star map or maybe Turn Left At Orion to try and help yourself star hop and find stuff.

HTH

[NGC 1502]

If you are disappointed with the views due to light pollution, then lunar / planetary / double star observing may be the way to go. These objects are the least affected by the LP that most of us suffer from.

Two things to check - is the scope collimated (miscollimation will degrade the view) and is the Telrad lined up with the scope ? if the Telrad is not pointing in the exact same direction as the scope, then finding stuff will be difficult.

Regards, Ed.

[russ.will]

If you fancy dabbling AP, the an Alt/Az mounted scope like the 5SE isn't going to be too much use either. For AP the scope needs to be mounted on an equatorial mount, so the subject is tracked correctly.

This opens up another possibility, which is to simply buy some tube rings and a dovetail and put the 200p OTA on something like an HEQ5 Pro Synscan. You get a suitable AP platform, GOTO and maintain the all important aperture.

In the mean time, you can do some things to the Dob to help visual use and keep it's useful grab and go status.

Print a setting circle (basically a 360deg protractor in reverse) which you fit to the top of the Dob base. Buy a Wixey (digital inclinometer £25ish) and it magnets to the OTA. With the degree reading off the base and the degree reading off the Wixey, you simply move the scope so the readings match those supplied by free programmes like Sky Safari, Stellarium etc. it helps to have a decent widefield eyepiece to act as a finder EP, but it's really, really easy.

Take it from someone who had a 200p mounted on a HEQ5 Synscan, blew up the motherboard on his new Dob and had to learn to push to. If I can do it....

Russell

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD using chubby fingers.

[umadog]

If you are disappointed with the DSO views with an 8" from your location then probably no telescope is going to change that since an 8" is a very capable instrument. Darker skies would certainly help but that's not an option. A filter may help. I say "may" not because the filter won't increase contrast (it will). It will even make some objects that are invisible now visible. But I don't know if a filter can make an underwhelmed observer into an overwhelmed observer. A smaller aperture (no matter what the bells and whistles) isn't going to deliver the goods. If it's REALLY light polluted I wouldn't even trust a bigger aperture to do so. Planetary, of course, is still very much an option. If your optics are well collimated you should be getting impressive planetary views. Narrowband imaging may well be the answer for DSOs. In that case I'd suggest you head off and read some books on the subject before dropping any cash. There's too much information you need and can't source it at all via internet fora.

[steppenwolf]

The 5 SE is mounted on an altazimuth mount so it is not at all suitable for deep sky AP although it could certainly be used for imaging the Moon and planets. The view of deep sky objects through your Dob will be better than those through a 5SE although the latter will have a little more magnification for a given eyepiece so this move would not resolve your disappointment with the appearance of deep sky objects.

Lee and Ed's advice make the most sense.

[Capricorn]

To repeat what Steve has said is the problem what you see or is the problem actually getting anything in view.

Next question is really what do you expect to see?

Forget ALL the images you see on the net and in books.

In simple terms these will take 2 hours to set up the scope, 2 hours to get the image and 2 days to process that image.

Next, and a personal thing, get a decent book.

I use the Monthly Sky Guide, it has a "constellation of the month" Useful as it is easy to find and prominent. And n that constellation it gives all the interesting bits in it. Your decision.

I would guess your light pollution is bad, so you will have to identify and then locate the brighter things. If you enter Messier List into Google it will (normally) provide a link to Wikipedia, go there and look at the list of Messier objects. I think at the top of eacjh column is a button to sort the list by whatever the column is, click on the Brightness column and reorder the list by brightness. Then work out which ones are available for looking at. The idea being pick out the bright ones.

You will probabvly have to select the Open and Globular clusters for easier viewing.

Another possibility is get a list of coloured double stars and go looking for them.

Search for Variable Stars (back to Wikipedia again) there is a short period one that you should be able to see change, forget which one and my lists are on a dead PC.

With the conditions you have and the limitations then you are going to have to start working out in advance possibilities.

A point for the future and possibly others: An 80mm refractor on a light mount that you could take on public transport would have allowed you to see a lot more, strange situation. I use a 70mm refractor which although I have a car makes it a very transportable scope.

Concerning the imaging - A 127 Mak (the SE's are Maks as well) is not really suited to long exposure photography, also to align you need to be able to see the various stars and may not be transportable as they are not light and require power. With your light pollution that will show up very heavily on any long exposure images.

[scarp15]

Consider joining a local astronomical society / club or informal group, many benefits gained in doing this, including possible opportunities to hook-up with some transport arrangement to get to a darker location then your dobsonian will shine, and I would have thought that your current set up will be quite accommodatingly portable.

The other possible suggestion would be to consider investing in a pair of binoculars, These will complement your scope and as they are so convenient to use they will probably receive a lot more use, in learning to navigate the seasonal sky, and perhaps observe the current perseids.

[Herrman]

Hi,

I agree with Lee, don't be disillusioned, certainly a good star atlas and LP filter are worth investing in. I confess I rely on goto nowdays, but to begin with it was just binos and a Tasco 'scope on a flimsy mount. I found that star-hopping (with the help of "Nortons") to find an object was as satisfying as finally observing it- it's that "gotcha" moment when that misty smudge finally slides into view. If light pollution's a problem try looking for some of the brighter Messier objects, and be patient; perhaps settle for locating one or two a night. Also, with light pollution in mind, don't forget the moon and planets, a moon map or atlas can help you get a lot out lunar observing.

Finally, I found a good EQ type mount and relatively fast refractor provided a rewarding start into AP, although of course other people, will have other opinions (not to mention issues of aligning, cameras, autoguiding.....).

Hope this provides a bit of encouragement.

All the best, Herrman

[Tinker1947]

You can get a Dob with GoTo, sells your present scope when you wallet is fat enough to make a purchase.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-flextube-goto.html

[bullettooth]

I confess I rely on goto nowdays, but to begin with it was just binos and a Tasco 'scope on a flimsy mount. I found that star-hopping (with the help of "Nortons") to find an object was as satisfying as finally observing it- it's that "gotcha" moment when that misty smudge finally slides into view.

this is where i get most of my satisfaction in the hobby from. i first got my scope at chrismas and didnt really know what to look for. so i started looking up things on stellarium and drawing little diagrams in a notebook for when i was out that night. finding those objects from what i had previously jotted down was amazing for me.

my scope is almost half the size of yours so the views wont be nearly as good but i still find it very rewarding.

ive just bought a pocket atlas from amazon so it should make it easier for me to find things.

i think if you put the messiers in your signiture. it will give you a goal to reach. (try and see as many as you can)

just see what works for you and good luck with it.

clear skies

[wiseman]

Hi Rainlaw, I started with a goto 8 inch dob, and the goto was b7ggered, so I had to do it all by hand to start with.

Here are my complete beginners recomendations...

1. Buy the book turn left at orion , from amazon. Its perfect for beginners, and leads you through what to look for at what time of the year

2. use an iphone or an ipad with star walk application, its just fantastic for finding stuff, easily. ( if you dont have one of these, get a planishere to help you get a starting point, or borrow someones IPad over night, after all they wont be using it while they are in bed)

3. Buy a laser colimator for getting the mirror correctly sorted, its so much easier than the colimating eyepiece

3a buy a set of knobs from bobs knobs, this also makes colimating much easier

4. Make sure that the finder is properly aligned ( do this at dusk, when you can aim at a chimney to get the alignment sorted out, also buy some spare batteries so you have a spare when you leave the finder switched on when you pack up the scope for the night)

5. get to understand that what you see through the scope is upside down and back to front.

So when you look up at the sky and see a star in the finder and want to move to the star to the right of it, it will look in the scope that the star you want is to the left of it, but you will still need to move the scope to the right to get to it

For what its worth, I have had my scope for a year now and I already want a bigger aperture scope, so dont for gawds sake buy a smaller one!!. If you have pots of money, buy a 10 inch goto dob and sell your current scope, if not the buying the bits to make yours into a goto, mentioned above may help.

I bought a wicksey and never used it, I also never used the circular disk mentioned above, but then i did have my wifes iphone to find stuff .

I have been staggered by what I have seen, fer instance, I didnt know that Polaris was a double star, and thats a piece of cake to find, find the plough, follow the two stars on the pan and the next bright star you see is Polaris to the North. Get it in the low power eyepiece, then swap for more powerfull eyepiece, then BOOM!, two stars pop out, and turn left at orion explains what type of stars they are, how far they are from each other etc etc etc, which is great stuff

Trust this helps

Cheers

Wise

[cantab]

I'm in a similar boat, Birmingham LP and no car. I don't own a big scope, but I've had reasonable success with my 10x50 and 15x70 binoculars. They both have wide fields of view which makes finding things not too hard. Local light makes a big difference, if the neighbours are up late with their lights on I can forget about seeing the faintest objects. If you don't have a pair, they're a worthwhile tool.

If you can find a small scope you can get out to a dark site it might be worth it, but otherwise I don't think it will help. I've no idea where's decently dark, reachable by public transport, and safe to observe from though.

[Hanuman]

I'm in Brum too and suffer from LP and trees. Smaller aperture on my scope and I've started to Fi d Messiers so it can be done. I found replacing my RDF with a 9x50 RACI made a massive difference and meant I could finally do starhopping because I could see my reference points before moving to the main eyepiece. Replace that telrad. You need some magnification in your finder just to get over the magniude limitations of the naked eye in these skies and be able to navigate with any success.

[RainLaw]

Firstly thanks to you all for so many replies.

'Turn left at Orion' & 'Monthly sky guide' reading reviews and they both seem pritty solid.

The messier list was a good call, I normally just look on stellarium & just pick random things that have the highest brightness. Doing some proper research before I go out is a far better way to go.

Coloured double stars; never seen those before.

I had some pages of a star atlas found on the net which were good but when i went to Waterstone (book store) i couldn't find an actaully atlas, the books named atlas were infact just books and not atlas's so can you guys suggest a couple of specifics.

Last night i was thinkin to get a mak to help my viewing and a Eq3 with goto (no scope) just for the dslr, but from what you've posted thats pritty much killed that idea, I didn't relise i could take my scope off the dob base, would be alot more months saving for GEM but i like the idea of that.

The flex dob goto scopes seem to have a mix of reviews, some people love them and other have problems. Heq5 & the flex mentioned are about the same cost (which is a high enough cost) whats the pro's & con's of going either way.

[bullettooth]

ive just bought sky and telescope's pocket sky atlas for less than a tenner inc delivery from amazon. its meant to be really really good. cant wait til it gets delivered.

good luck and clear skies

Martin

[ollypenrice]

Really the problem is Birmingham! I doubt that you will find satifying views of deep sky objects in anything so from your site I would concentrate on moon, planets and double stars. Certainly don't go down in aperture.

Main priority, find a way of getting out into Derbyshire or Staffs, maybe to a campsite, for the clear weekends. If you can do that, then something small and portable would be rewarding.

Olly

[RainLaw]

Bump! any more views on my 2nd lot of questions?

[Matt Scunthorpe]

The flex dob goto scopes seem to have a mix of reviews, some people love them and other have problems. Heq5 & the flex mentioned are about the same cost (which is a high enough cost) whats the pro's & con's of going either way.

Dobs tend to be visual only, EQs are for imagining as they can track movements and can support the weight of cameras etc. But dobs do come with goto, so i guess webcam work would be done with a dob. You'll get more apperture for your money with a dob. Alot more.

[brianmc]

I think for a beginner a DIY setting circle and wixey angle gauge are well worth the effort. Combined with Stellarium you can at least be assured that if you can't see your target it's not because you're pointing your scope in the wrong place.

[RainLaw]

my gardens sloped so im guessing I'd have to make a permanent flat base for it to sit on yea?

[PorkyB]

My 2p-worth as a fellow Birmingham-based astronomer...

As well as the great advice you will get on this forum, it might well help to get out and talk to people. Birmingham Astronomical Society meet on Wednesday evenings 7:30pm at Aston University. Once it starts to get dark in the evenings people will have scopes out on the roof, so a good chance to see what other people are up to.

Have a look at the Community / Social Groups / West Midlands forum here.

For a reasonably dark sky (for Birmingham anyway) have a walk through Sutton Park with some binoculars. Easily accessible by train and bus. Bins are a great way to learn your way around the sky and will always be useful whatever other equipment you have.

Cambridge Star Atlas is a good one, it was in stock at Waterstones New St at the weekend.

[bigrbuk]

I just bought Pocket Sky Atlas too - cheaper from the marketplace...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1931559317/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1931559317&linkCode=as2&tag=mensportal-21

Another vote for Turn Left at Orion too, I've had 4 viewing sessions in total and seen 3 Messier objects under the LP skies of Sheffield, not long after sunset. No "go to" tools here either, just the guide books, a bit of planning before stepping outside, a quick sky scan using an iPhone app to ensure I'm looking in the right general direction and some patience.