Televue Price Rise

[Charon]

Yes my days of buying brand new Tele Vues have finished now.

[Parus major]

Funny, the main defense of Televue was that they were cheaper than Pentax.

[Doug]

I agree with the others on here when that say TeleVue have got to expensive,the world is in a recession and prices should reflect that with nearly 3.000.000.out of work in this country alone,and much higher in the USA for the first time I purchased second hand and it looks like new but I think it will be my last Nagler, it's a 22mm T4

[CGolder]

The ES 100 and 82 degree line are very tempting and I almost .. very very almost clicked buy on a 11mm 82.. but... am I going to spend 2k on a scope and then compromise on my eyepieces... I don't think so. i would rather have one top quality ep than 2 reasonably good ones.

[marcopolo]

I'm going to speak up in defence of Televue here. I own my own small maufacturing company. In my world I make the equivelant of Televue. We are one the best at what we make if not The best. That kind of engineering excellence is very hard to achieve and maintain.

But that's not the main problem. Here are the main problems (and I know that many on the list for me in the UK will also be on the Televue list)

Incessant rises on corporate taxes and inport duties and beurocratic red tape.

Significant mateial cost rises.

Depreciating currency causing upward pressures on importing components.

Energy price rises.

Shipping cost rises.

Ever demanding public expecting higher and higher performance for less and less money.

Small Labour cost rises.

Theres more but that's just the stuff off the top of my head.

I just purchased a 24mm Televue panoptic and my eyes were smarting at the cost. However it's the best eyepiece I've ever used.

People try to understand when you purchase a premium product it's going to cost you. Stop expecting everything for less like it's your God given right to have tech product get cheaper and cheaper. You get the excellence you need but also support the brand in future development.

One more rant while i'm here. very few people understand things like the limits to growth and peak oil. Heres a good place to startunderstanding that the days of things getting cheaper and cheaper are very limited: www.theoildrum.com

Marco.

[CGolder]

I also agree that TV are priced well, hold value well and are superb at any price and people will still buy it.. but limits to growth and peak oil being a subject of little understanding... come on your not on the BBC forum

[Parus major]

The issue is that if it's as you say, Marco then why only this one company? I understand that his competitors are a little larger but you'd expect that if he's put prices up by 25% then you'd expect some jump in prices by others, and their's nothing.

Naglers weren't the best last month but the fans would tell you that Pentax XW's last few decimal points of quality were at an increased price. Now they're cheaper. The reason TV think they can do this is brand and reputation, which is a little rich when you use your smallness to justify a 25% price hike.

As I said, they've done the maths, selling for example 10% fewer at a 25% higher price equals extra profits for a smaller production run, limits the number on second hand sale and increases the exclusivity. Basically, if you don't like their OTT prices they don't want you as a customer.

[kirkster501]

Agreed.

TV were expensive enough as it was. That's my point, and now 25% on top of that ? Man, that's expensive. They'll end up killing the golden goose.....

Anyway, enough of my whining Will buy either TV used (hopefully) or another brand.

Cheers, Steve

[Capricorn]

I agree with Marco, they make good high spec eyepieces. The point being the recent price rise has simply made me say No.

Have no doubt to the general quality, but immaterial of the quality I simply cannot find it in myself to pay out for one.

So TV lose a sale, and I would suspect that I am not the only one who will look at the Meade 5000, Celestron X-Cel, BST's and others mentioned here as straight alternatives and all at significantly less.

It is no use TV saying "We make good eyepieces", if people find, or consider, them as too expensive.

Marco, if you raised your prices by 20-25% would customers stay or look elsewhere?

[marcopolo]

Marco, if you raised your prices by 20-25% would customers stay or look elsewhere?

Actually I'ts difficult to answer that question (see below), but it would not ne my choice to raise my prices. If as I suspect Televue are seeing the same upward pressures as I am they NEED to raise prices otherwise the business is simply not viable and they will not survive.

Our prices increased by 30-50% when we stopped selling direct and sold through a distributor. They needed to take a cut of approx 80% so dropped the price we recieved per unit. Ironic eh?

I do not thnk they raised their prices out of greed.

Marco.

Marco.

[SniffTheGlove]

People try to understand when you purchase a premium product it's going to cost you. Stop expecting everything for less like it's your God given right to have tech product get cheaper and cheaper.

Just like how iTunes have massively increased Whitney Houston Ultimate Album yesterday. A digital download has no manufacturing costs etc like a physical product does? So why the sudden increase. Oh she died and they are cashing in.

Also, read to day that Disney are ripping off British customers at EuroDisney, on the english version of their website the prices are 60% more expensive that the french version website and if you are british who can read french and purchase via the french website your credit card transaction fails because it is a british crdit card whereas french credit cards work fine. Another reason why the british mainly are constantly being ripped off.

I would pay a good price for a product but only it that product was worth it else I look elsewhere or do not purchase it and make do.

I have one TV, whilst it is very nice and solid I would have to look at the second market now as the prices are just way too much to pay.

[newman]

The way I see it, you can buy medium quality, reasonably high quality, good price/money ratio eyepieces, and you'll probably end up buying and selling a lot of them over the years.

Or you can buy premium once and use it for years and years.

Let's imagine a certain someone is in the market for a 10mm Ethos. It used to cost around 490€, now it costs closer to 530€ on the TS webshop. 40€ difference isn't a small amount, but if someone's already in the market for such an expensive piece of kit I doubt the last 40€ will change their mind. The decision to buy an extremely expensive eyepiece is a similar one, whether it costs 490€ or 530€. It stretches the budget a bit further but if you were willing to pay 490€ you'll probably scrounge up the rest, get it in your collection, and be done with it - maybe forever.

Not glad the prices have gone up, but I don't believe this will hurt their sales much - the thought processes that lead people to buy expensive premium gear remain the same.

[marcopolo]

I don't think ANYONE has addressed the central tenet to my argument i.e. the reasons for the price increase (post #30). James came close with asking why all the others didn't increase prices also at the same time but with all due respect that's a fairly naive question with a few obvious answers why not.

So no-one going to step up? Or are we just all goign to continue to whinge about the price rises without accepting the why's?

Marco.

[MjrTom]

The general consensus is that Tele Vue have not put their prices up for years where as the others have creeped up over the same time period.

[newman]

The argument that in the current state of the world economy the price rise is to be expected is perfectly valid. Everything is going up in one way or another like a domino effect - to be expected when oil goes up.

I was trying to look at the issue from the perspective of a premium buying consumer; someone in the market for an ethos has already made a decision to buy a super expensive eyepiece. I don't see a price rise of 40€ changing his mind.

[Rob_UK_SE]

I can only assume the recent price increase, which is the first in a long time, is due to the extremely limited margins in which Tele Vue sell their products and also the margins the retailers work to.

Tele Vue are not like other the mass volume selling astronomical product manufacturers. They are specialists, you might say 'boutique 'or 'bespoke' to this market.

We should all take note that Kodak, a world leader in the photography world, have just filled for bankruptcy protection.

Tele Vue, unlike many other eyepiece manufacturers, are a relatively small operation that have achieved an impact world wide due to the quality of their product. However, the cost of manufacturing their relatively small product runs, and the cost of maintaining a very high attention to detail with their quality control, means that they will be priced at the higher end of the market.

Celestron sell a high volume of scopes, as do Meade, Orion and Skywatcher. This helps to balance things out. My understanding is that Pentax are in serious financial difficulty at the moment and there are concerns about their long term survival. Perhaps they too will increase their eyepiece prices soon? However, they probably have the buying power to invest on a larger scale, buying Japanese glass in bulk. After all, Pentax are also a player in the DSLR world.

I am of course not particularly happy about the price increase, however, Tele Vue have been a market leader for a very long time and are being force to react to a volatile business market in an effort to survive... when many businesses are failing to do so.

I will continue to purchase their products... although, I will be keeping a look out for those elusive 10% off promotions from Telescope House.

Rob

[Parus major]

I don't think ANYONE has addressed the central tenet to my argument i.e. the reasons for the price increase (post #30). James came close with asking why all the others didn't increase prices also at the same time but with all due respect that's a fairly naive question with a few obvious answers why not.

So no-one going to step up? Or are we just all goign to continue to whinge about the price rises without accepting the why's?

Marco.

You suggested it was because manufacturing costs or labour, materials and transportation has increased, perhaps by 25%. I only suggested that, like for like, Petax and Vixen would also have to since they're using the same materials in the same part of the world, ie Japan. That was your reason and when I say that you go down the "it's complicated" route which isn't an answer at all.

There are two possibles. One I've mentioned, for example selling 10% less merchandise for 25% more equals profit and perhaps there's also a contract unit order issue that they have to order in blocks so they don't want another run (may expain the sell off from last year) and secondly they're not making enough profits so they defer to the aove calculation.

Either way, a jump in 25% is NOTHING do do with the world economy, rising manufacturing costs, materials or shipping. Basically it's likely nothing to do with what you make at your work, whatever that is.

[Rob_UK_SE]

I really hope this thread doesn't turn into a 'let's rubbish Tele Vue' one.

Afterall, this is THE company that paved the way for 82º eyepieces with the first Nagler design. They also pushed the boat out and pioneered the 100º and 110º field of view markets. How many clones then followed?

The Mercedes Benz S class luxury car will always be out of my league. However, because of the research and development work Mercedes have carried out, and ultimately the inovations that appear on this model, we now have a Ford Focus that can park itself and parking sensors on many new vehicles. I think it they were also the first company to introduce ABS - Now found on pretty much all new cars.

Without Tele Vue other manufactures would not react and make the forward progress they do.

Perhaps we should go back to just having orthoscopic and plossl designs? After all, these were the Ethos of their days.

Sorry for the rant (not supposed to sound like one anyway), but I do feel there is a bit of a let's go for Tele Vue vibe developing.

Bottom line, if you don't like it, then simply don't buy it...

Rob

[Parus major]

Bottom line, if you don't like it, then simply don't buy it...

Rob

Sorry but that makes little sense in this context but it's the standard defensive stock answer. Nobody's rubbishing TV, we're all just dancing around the main point that TV clearly believe they've fallen into the "affordable" bracket and lost the exclusivity, so up the price goes.

[John]

...Either way, a jump in 25% is NOTHING do do with the world economy, rising manufacturing costs, materials or shipping....

I think the price increases range between 4% and 22% averaging out at around 15%.

Prior to that Tele Vue prices have been relatively stable for the past few years aside from a 13% price drop for a 13 week period in 2007 and the 20% price drop for 20 weeks in Q1 last year.

I don't welcome the price rise this year but don't ascribe it to the greed and opportunism of the Tele Vue management. I think they had no alternative.

Fortunately, over the past couple of years, some really viable alternatives to Tele Vue products have emerged such as the UWAN / Nirvana eyepieces and the Explore Scientific ranges. I would not be surprised, however, if similar price rises are announced for those products in the near future

[Parus major]

But John, it then becomes less about economic forces and more a Cartel, surely?

[spaceboy]

Forgive me but I don't understand what all the fuss is about? I don't mean to rant but so what TV put their prices up. They want to make some money after all this is the idea of going into business?? Is this not the same as wanting a TV EP at £225 rather than £270, so that you have some extra money in your pocket. If TV intended to be greedy and rip people off surely they would have high prices from the off and not waiting until the market was flooded with cheaper alternatives. TV EP's are well corrected eyepieces in fast scopes and offer wider FOV in slow scopes but they are not the be all and end all of eyepieces. If one cannot afford to buy a new TV EP or feel reluctant to pay the latest premium on S/H TV's then there are as John said viable alternatives.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

But John, it then becomes less about economic forces and more a Cartel, surely?

Are you suggesting that if others follow suit and raise prices there is a cartel (not similar market forces yielding similar effects), but if they don't it must be greed of TeleVue management (not market forces acting on a small company in turbulent times)?

This sounds a somewhat negative take on things.

[Nexus 6]

Would expect price's to rise for all equipment, is has begun already and not just from Televue. Shame they have gone up but its no surprise due to the current economic situation I guess.

[Capricorn]

That TV prices have increased is up to TV. My point somewhere in the past, and other peoples, was that while good are now at a cost that I would hesitate to purchase.

One odd point is that over the last 12-18 months I have noticed that when a person askes about updating their eyepieces that the once almost standard TV Plossl is now rarely mentioned.

I know it is said that TV have not put their prices up for some years but I am pretty sure that the cost has risen here in the UK a few times. I recall buying one just before a price rise about 2 years back.