Grrrrr..... Interview on R2 today

[pastiche]

Can anyone help me polar align my astrology chart? The tea bags in my cup said I could get good advice here lol

The tea signs only work if you use pyramid teabags as use by the ancient egyptians!

[angusb1]

I think the aforementioned astrologer is hilarious but I would take his statements about physics with a large pinch of salt. Similarly I wouldn't have much time for Patrick Moore's opinions on how to make people laugh by being outrageously camp on TV.

[pastiche]

I think the aforementioned astrologer is hilarious but I would take his statements about physics with a large pinch of salt. Similarly I wouldn't have much time for Patrick Moore's opinions on how to make people laugh by being outrageously camp on TV.

As the aforementioned astrologer is a so called 'celebrity' does that make him a 'star camp?

[Tim]

Fair enough. However, if they give a scientific argument for their belief, they open themselves up to scientific criticism. If they invoke tidal effects to explain astrology they become fair game to criticism from physicists and astronomers. If there logical inconsistencies in their arguments, they become fair game for mathematicians and philosophers.

In short, when ever they place astrology into the field of scientific discourse, the rules of scientific discourse apply. That means everything and anything may be called into question.

That's exactly it. He also mentioned TEN planets that have a direct bearing on us. I'll look forward to the mathematical/physics paper that explains all that then..........

What would the ten planets be do you think?

[Mike Hackenbacker]

We humans are...

Oxygen 43kg, Carbon 16kg, Hydrogen 7kg, Nitrogen 1.8kg, Calcium 1.0kg, Phosphorus 780g, Potassium 140g, Sulfur 140g, Sodium 100g, Chlorine 95g, Magnesium 19g, Iron 4.2g, Fluorine 2.6g, Zinc 2.3g, Silicon 1.0g, Rubidium 0.68g, Strontium 0.32g, Bromine 0.26g, Lead 0.12g, Copper 72mg, Aluminium 60mg, Cadmium 50mg, Cerium 40mg, Barium 22mg, Iodine 20mg, Tin 20mg, Titanium 20mg, Boron 18mg, Nickel 15mg, Selenium 15mg, Chromium 14mg, Manganese 12mg, Arsenic 7mg, Lithium 7mg, Cesium 6mg, Mercury 6mg, Germanium 5mg, Molybdenum 5mg, Cobalt 3mg, Antimony 2mg, Silver 2mg, Niobium 1.5mg, Zirconium 1mg, Lanthanum 0.8mg, Gallium 0.7mg, Tellurium 0.7mg, Yttrium 0.6mg, Bismuth 0.5mg, Thallium 0.5mg, Indium 0.4mg, Gold 0.2mg, Scandium 0.2mg, Tantalum 0.2mg, Vanadium 0.11mg, Thorium 0.1mg, Uranium 0.1mg, Samarium 50���µg, Beryllium 36���µg, Tungsten 20���µg.

astronomy is.. sceince,educational and most of all fun,

astrology is.. logic impared by irrational and emotional rubbish

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Put simply, humans are supernova remnants.

[WayBig]

25 + 15 + 60 + 5 = 105 :confused:

Hence the obesity epidemic that we're always being told about!!

I'm glad gravity only affects the water part of us

[661-pete]

You should know the facts: as the moon travels overhead, it's gravity pulls on you slightly making your brain a little lighter. This explains why otherwise sane people make ridiculous statements form time to time.

You can avoid this by wearing tinfoil on your head. An armadillo shell is better if you can get one.

Of course - some people do even more ridiculous things as the moon travels overhead...

[TheThing]

A whole 3 page thread on astrology and not one mention of otters so far?!?

What is SGL coming to!!

TheThing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WayBig]

A whole 3 page thread on astrology and not one mention of otters so far?!?

What is SGL coming to!!

TheThing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

...uh oh...popcorn time....

[DavidOfBanff]

Put simply, humans are supernova remnants.

I used to have a nova. Got an astra now. There's living.

HTH.

[Marmite]

astronomy is.. sceince,educational and most of all fun,

astrology is.. logic impared by irrational and emotional rubbish

Astrology is...an incredibly lucrative gravytrain for those willing to mercilessly exploit the abject gullibility and ignorance of the masses.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Astrology is...an incredibly lucrative gravytrain for those willing to mercilessly exploit the abject gullibility and ignorance of the masses.

As long as they don't mercilessly exploit the otters.

[661-pete]

It's fun to be flippant about this subject isn't it - and I'm as guilty as the next person! But really it's just another branch of the Humanities - and plenty of other stuff in that realm - especially so-called modern 'art' which I am totally at a loss to make any sense of - well it may seem pointless extravagance but it makes someone a living and keeps people in employment I suppose.

Thus with astrology. It's been a major industry throughout recorded history, and without it, its proponents would probably be saying and doing equally silly things, merely in another format.

I'd let them be. They're emptying the purses of gullible people, true, but plenty of others are guilty of that!

And another thing worth remembering. Tycho Brahe - one of the greatest astronomers in history - was also a notable astrologer and firmly believed in all that stuff. This is a quote I've turned up, from his account of the 1572 supernova:

The star was at first like Venus and Jupiter, giving pleasing effects; but then as it became like Mars, there will next come a period of wars, seditions, captivity and death of princes, and destruction of cities, together with dryness and fiery meteors in the air, pestilence, and venomous snakes. Lastly, the star became like Saturn, and there will finally come a time of want, death, imprisonment and all sorts of sad things.

[after Tycho De Stella Nova, quoted by PM in Guide to the Stars]

If Tycho could come up with all that drivel and yet be one of the first of the really 'great' modern astronomers, it's worth taking note...

[sbooder]

It maybe worth taking note too that he may have been an even better astronomer if he did not believe in all that drivel.

It is like saying I like Sherlock Holmes so there must be something in Spiritualism, because Conan Doyle wrote the former and believed in the latter.

[CanesVenatici]

It is the BBC hypocrisy in action; they have a fairness policy that gives equal time to all sides of any point. Although (and this is the hypocrisy), I do not see them giving equal time to all sides on Thought for the Day on Radio4!

This is real issue, and it is not just the BBC who seem to think that 'balance' means giving as much time to fringe views as they do to the scientific consensus. For a BBC related story on this issue see:



BBC gives too much weight to fringe views on issues such as climate change | Science | guardian.co.uk

To be fair, it is easy to laugh at those who believe in astrology, but most people will ignore the balance of the available evidence and the need to reason logically when they have a vested interest in arguing for something that simply isn't supported by reason and evidence. For many people what they believe is a matter of faith and, to paraphrase Mark Twain, 'Faith is believing what you know isn't true'.

[JamesF]

It's fun to be flippant about this subject isn't it - and I'm as guilty as the next person! But really it's just another branch of the Humanities - and plenty of other stuff in that realm - especially so-called modern 'art' which I am totally at a loss to make any sense of - well it may seem pointless extravagance but it makes someone a living and keeps people in employment I suppose.

Nobody is claiming that it's possible to predict your future based on the relative arrangement of the exhibits in the Tate Modern at the time of your birth though, are they? Mind you, I'll predict that if they did, we'd be rolling in the aisles laughing.

I can live with the fact that some (much, even) modern art leaves me cold. Astrology is right up there with water-dowsing in the "utter codswallop" stakes as far as I'm concerned though. You can have causality, entropy, the arrow of time and all that entails, or you can have astrology. I really can't see that it's feasible to have both. And ironically, if it weren't for the fact that the former work, the likes of Russell Grant wouldn't be able to peddle his claptrap in the first place.

I don't believe that the fact that scientists of previous generations have believed in astrology (or anything else that's later been demonstrated as totally wrong) has any relevance. Many, many scientists have done valuable work for entirely the wrong reasons, from the ancient civilisations to the likes of Fred Hoyle. Their erroneous beliefs don't devalue their experiments and observations, even if they were carrying them out because they believed it would help to prove something that turns out to be incorrect.

James

[cantab]

That's exactly it. He also mentioned TEN planets that have a direct bearing on us. I'll look forward to the mathematical/physics paper that explains all that then..........

What would the ten planets be do you think?

They count the Sun and the Moon, and made up stuff for Pluto when it was discovered which they're still using. (They made up stuff for Uranus and Neptune for that matter). They don't count Earth.

[lukebl]

...What would the ten planets be do you think?

That's easy. Tattooine, Gallifrey, Magrathea ... er, sorry can't think of any more. I'm just amazed that anyone still believes in this tosh. Perhaps we should start burning witches while we're at it.

[JamesF]

Perhaps we should start burning witches while we're at it.

Well, the obvious candidates for being witches must be those who claim they can tell the future, surely?

James

[661-pete]

Nobody is claiming that it's possible to predict your future based on the relative arrangement of the exhibits in the Tate Modern at the time of your birth though, are they? Mind you, I'll predict that if they did, we'd be rolling in the aisles laughing.

I can live with the fact that some (much, even) modern art leaves me cold. Astrology is right up there with water-dowsing in the "utter codswallop" stakes as far as I'm concerned though. You can have causality, entropy, the arrow of time and all that entails, or you can have astrology. I really can't see that it's feasible to have both. And ironically, if it weren't for the fact that the former work, the likes of Russell Grant wouldn't be able to peddle his claptrap in the first place.

I don't believe that the fact that scientists of previous generations have believed in astrology (or anything else that's later been demonstrated as totally wrong) has any relevance. Many, many scientists have done valuable work for entirely the wrong reasons, from the ancient civilisations to the likes of Fred Hoyle. Their erroneous beliefs don't devalue their experiments and observations, even if they were carrying them out because they believed it would help to prove something that turns out to be incorrect.

James

I think the point I was trying to make was - not that I was trying to defend this nonsense (it has plenty of adherents to do just that) - but that, the more they make outrageous claims such as you suggest, the more they dig a hole for themselves in the face of credible argument.

They don't count Earth.

That's because the Earth isn't actually a planet. It's a flat disk resting on the backs of four elephants, which in turn.......

That's easy. Tattooine, Gallifrey, Magrathea ... er, sorry can't think of any more. I'm just amazed that anyone still believes in this tosh. Perhaps we should start burning witches while we're at it.

Oh I can think of lots more. Trantor, Terminus, Anacreon, Kalgan, Haven for starters... And, since I'm a Niven-fan, better throw in Jinx, WeMadeIt, Canyon, Plateau,.....

[onesmallstep]

Hi

Several points / observations:

1. What have otters got to do with anything unless this is QI and I have just mentioned the boobytrap word. Either that or its a new type of curry (Tarka Masala, like Tikka Masala only 'otter).

2. The average IQ of the reality TV / talent show viewer means that the astrology comments would have been forgotten as soon as they were made. Imagine waiting for ameoba to evolve and you get the general idea.

3. In general people prefer to remain ignorant of science as it threatens their cosy view of their own little worlds where they are the most important people in it. Being astronomers we are in the empowered position of knowing what is really going on in the universe.

4. In case you're wondering, I'm Scorpio with one leg rising.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Hi

Several points / observations:

1. What have otters got to do with anything unless this is QI and I have just mentioned the boobytrap word. Either that or its a new type of curry (Tarka Masala, like Tikka Masala only 'otter).

I prefer Otter Kebab

2. The average IQ of the reality TV / talent show viewer means that the astrology comments would have been forgotten as soon as they were made. Imagine waiting for ameoba to evolve and you get the general idea.

I think you underestimate amoebae, or overestimate the audience, I cannot tell which

3. In general people prefer to remain ignorant of science as it threatens their cosy view of their own little worlds where they are the most important people in it. Being astronomers we are in the empowered position of knowing what is really going on in the universe.

At least we know that when we shake our fists at the universe shouting "It's not fair!!!!", the best answer (if any) we might expect is "Yes, and your point is?"

4. In case you're wondering, I'm Scorpio with one leg rising.

And I am an Aquarius, with rain pouring down

[pastiche]

I prefer Otter Kebab

I think you underestimate amoebae, or overestimate the audience, I cannot tell which

At least we know that when we shake our fists at the universe shouting "It's not fair!!!!", the best answer (if any) we might expect is "Yes, and your point is?"

And I am an Aquarius, with rain pouring down

I am also Aquarius, with one middle finger rising....

[Macavity]

I bet ordinary folks must be wondering what scientists actually did before the current vogue for "Bashing the Irrational" (If not the Bishop?) - Ah yes, boring old stuff... like research.

I sense this is a reflection of today's society? Everything has to be hyped up - Confrontational, now. Former "opponents in debate" now become "Enemies of reason" etc. Molehills... mountains? There are endless LAWS to protect us from new/old age "charlatans". Not to mention the BBC's full quota of beer-bellied, bald-headed, belligerent... "Batmen", to save us... from ourselves?

There are problems re. the influence of the irrational on important [world-stage] stuff! But I worry about this modern appetite for... almost vigilantism - Over trivia. Do folk REALLY want to see others sent to jail for merely doing / believing "weird stuff"? Think it can't happen (again):

Helen Duncan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Aside: I'm with W.C. re. the "obsolete tomfoolery" charge.

Let's get scientific publicists back to promoting Science. Let's leave the "theological debate" to the BBC's (endless!) supply of "Arts / Humanities" graduates. [teasing] Science was ever for the patient and dedicated. Hard work - rewarding certainly! But sometimes dull too. Realistically, the "X-factor", it ain't...