Laser pointers

[andyc277]

I was at a gathering last night and acouple of people were using green laser pointers to illustrate what they were talking about/teaching. Do people use these freely or is there some considerstion taken to the possibility of shining at aircraft? I work within the avaition indusrty and am well aware of the potential dangers of pointing lasers.

[hemihaggis]

There are many. Countries where much more powerful lasers are freely available , are the aircraft falling out the skies in those countries ? Do the pilots who land in the UK not also land in countries where you can buy 300mw + lasers , this is just another example of big brother telling us what to do and what we. Can or can't use , buy a laser pointer and be sensible , what is the problem ?

[sbooder]

Most AAs are very aware of aircraft and will always check before pointing at any bit of the skies. But I am afraid there are idiots out there who think it is funny to blind pilots.

[Ptarmigan]

Do people use these freely or is there some considerstion taken to the possibility of shining at aircraft?

If they were a gathering of amateur astronomers I am sure they are as careful and considerate as you. Especially considering the amount of discussion on this topic that there has been within the AA community.

[garethmob]

i went to a meeting and before we used the green lazer we checked the whole sky for any planes intersecting the beam and had a lookout member looking just in case we missed it

[haitch]

Given that every astronomer I have ever met (without exception) is an upstanding member of the community I doubt they would deliberately shine a laser at a plane.

Even if they accidentally momentarily shone the laser at a plane I think it would be very unlikely to shine directly at the pilot given the orientation of the cockpit window and the accurate pointing that would be required to hit a plane at high altitude (places near airports, i.e. with low aircraft, are not usually favoured by astronomers).

The cases I've heard about involve delinquents and low flying police helicopters (which are obviously very different to commercial jets)

I think it's high time we banned belts as there is a recorded history of stranglings with them.

[jimmyjamjoejoe]

Less than 5mw have proven to do no permanent damage, just slightly dazzling.

Look at those windows, considering there is a big nose bulge just below them outside too. Think of he angle you'd need to be at to get a beam through there when the plane is at height (even low enough for landing).

Now given that angle, think of the distance you'd have to be in order to achieve such a shallow angle, you'd need to almost be on the horizon.

Now, at that distance, do you think you could shine a beam through a window that size, whilst it's moving? And if by some miracle you manage it, do you think you could keep it there for more than a fraction of a second?

[Ptarmigan]

involve delinquents and low flying police helicopters

That could be taken out of context by Sandi Toksvig !

(R4 Fridays 6:30, satire)

[Alma]

Will people please not post ill-informed nonsense on subjects they clearly know nothing about, i.e. aviation and air safety. As a consultant with more than 35 years experience in the field of airline operations, I can tell you that green lasers are a new, serious and growing problem for aviation. Doesn't matter whether it's helicopters, civil airliners or military - pilots the world over are up in arms over the things. There's obviously some good amateur astronomy practice out there judging by some of the posts here; perhaps we need to develop that into a voluntary code of practice. What do you think?

[Alma]

Might even write one myself. Any contributions?

[nicnac]

i think they are just being light hearted about this Alma

the only sorts i have seen mess with laser pointers are the ones that would play with matches too, the issues with laser pointers have been thrown around the media a little, enough to make people more than aware, that coupled with the warnings that come with the pointer on purchase.......

try not to take it to heart, i dont think any here meant to cause offence

[Ptarmigan]

i think they are just being light hearted about this Alma

the only sorts i have seen mess with laser pointers are the ones that would play with matches too,

snip

try not to take it to heart, i dont think any here meant to cause offence

Well said Nic,

I was on the point of sending Alma a PM to point to this thread !

Once again we are in the realms of banning stuff to legit owners yet leaving the naerdowells with their ill gotten and abused devices, I ref. the hon. members to the firearms (especially non-repeating hand guns ) legislation. (Declaration of interest - never owned one never wanted to )

[rabbithutch]

AFAIK laser pointers are not controlled by any laws in the US other than the laws of common sense. I have several and use them occasionally at night to point to areas of the sky, but I never, ever would point one at an aircraft that I can detect. Now if they are flying stealth aircraft around and I happen to hit one, trust me, it would be more the case of a blind squirrel finding an acorn than one of intent to light up the aircraft.

[andyc277]

I thought most people would have a good look but there is always an outsidechance. i wouldnt think anyone on here would be the sort ofperson who deliberately shines lasers at aircraft, as whilst. members on here are out gazing the likely culprits will be attached toa park bench or street corner

[Alan_B]

I think it would depend to an extent on where you are. Living as I do 4 miles from Manchester Airport and have con trails continually overhead from transatlantic aircraft I wouldn't use one but if I was not near any flight path (Is there such a place ?) maybe

[haitch]

I think it would depend to an extent on where you are. Living as I do 4 miles from Manchester Airport and have con trails continually overhead from transatlantic aircraft I wouldn't use one but if I was not near any flight path (Is there such a place ?) maybe

Yes there's definitely too many planes up there. At a time when motorists are being taxed off the road in the name of anthropomorphic climate change people still catch planes like buses.

Now if fuel duty was a burden shared equally on aviation fuel we'd be in a whole different situation.

[todd8137]

well if you want to point things out to other people they ok i have one and to be fair i have used it about 5 times my daughter plays with it more than me waste of money ,unless you like new toys

[661-pete]

I've never been in an aircraft cockpit, but it stand to reason the crew must be able to see the ground when in flight - else how could they land the aircraft? If they can see the ground, they can be dazzled by a light shining from the ground.

So the arguments saying that these high-power green lasers pose no threat to civil airliners, are off-beam, if you'll pardon a pun!

I think 'high-power' is the operative word here, and also 'green'. It is regrettably commonplace to see green pointers at 500mW or even more powerful, openly offered for sale on the internet. Now, red lasers for collimation are limited to 5mW I believe, and similarly those pointers used in lecture theatres and the like. I can't see how super-powerful lasers can offer any added advantage to the astronomer, but perhaps someone can come up with a reason?

[Rover]

Using a laser pointer to point out stars is so much easier than using your finger and getting the other person to position themselves in a position to try and see what you are pointing at.

I am always very careful though when it comes to planes though and check that nothing is nearby before I use it.

As many people have pointed out, if they are used responsibly I don't see any problem with them.

One thing to also be aware of would be people that are imaging. In my over eagerness to be helpful I managed to add some false colour to someones image. A complete accident but they obviously weren't happy with me.

[Alma]

AFAIK laser pointers are not controlled by any laws in the US other than the laws of common sense.

Only true if you're talking about lasers <5mw. A more powerful device requires a permit from the FAA who will then normally issue a "NOTAM" for the benefit of pilots operating in the vicinity - use of a device in excess of 5mw without a permit is a civil offence in the US. Additionally, the actual shining of lasers at aircraft will soon become a federal crime - the Senate approved (by a vote of 96 to 1) an amendment to the FAA bill earlier this year making it a federal offence to do so - not sure whether this is actual law yet or if not, when it will become so. Perhaps one of the reasons you might be a little out of date on this is that our companion forums in the US such as "Cloudy Nights" do not allow any discussion on laser devices more powerful than 5mw since it could be considered as promoting illegal behaviour. This and similar threads on SGL would simply be removed.

[haitch]

well if you want to point things out to other people they ok i have one and to be fair i have used it about 5 times my daughter plays with it more than me waste of money ,unless you like new toys

I do hope your daughter is old enough to know not to look into the beam!

[haitch]

Personally I think when I buy a piece of land I should also own the space above it and it should be up to me whether planes are allowed to pass over.

At least my property in France comes complete with the ground underneath it (I own a piece of the core of the Earth! )

[x6gas]

Personally I think when I buy a piece of land I should also own the space above it and it should be up to me whether planes are allowed to pass over.

At least my property in France comes complete with the ground underneath it (I own a piece of the core of the Earth! )

To what altitude? If unlimted then, given the rotation of the Earth and it's precesion, you'd end up owning a considerable chunck of the universe!

Course the same would be true of everyone else... one for the lawyers!

[Alma]

Personally I think when I buy a piece of land I should also own the space above it and it should be up to me whether planes are allowed to pass over.

It's a nice thought however the airspace above us is tightly regulated and in essence it's the Goverment who own it. They make the rules over what you can and can't do with it and they're entitled to charge for the privilege. C'est la vie!

[Alan_B]

Haitch - The ground under my house will eventually meet yours at the Earth's core - I think that our lawyers could make a fortune !

Must work out where my antipode is - probably a bit of ocean floor