Never going to find a bargain in the For Sale section

[Dave R Smith]

Dave, the only OTT and insulting thing going on here is that reaction.

Suck it up...it's the way it is.

You should be motivated to learn here...not to take from the community whilst putting zero back in (other than victim whining).

It's got NOTHING to do with being accused of being guilty or dishonest and EVERYTHING to do with SGL protecting (to the best of their abilities) the members who come here and contribute to the community...ultimately making this place what it is.

Check my posts and you will see I have endeavored to contribute even though I am a beginner and can contribute very little without ever using a telescope.

This is a hobby for me, coming here is a choice based upon pleasure.

I respect whatever rules are made, but thought I should given constructive feedback, on the double standard of friendly introduction and 'third degree'. Life is about balance on a two way street, not just meekly accepting everything.

Feel free to delete my posts if you think giving constructive criticism is wrong.

[astroimpulse]

Nobody's going to delete your posts.

But you're making analogies on how insulted you are by the rules here but you wouldn't walk into the house of someone and start complaining how insulted you are by the fact they have their own rules. Course you wouldn't.

The rule of 50 posts has nothing to do with insulting anyone and nothing to do with presuming you're guilty.

It's 100% motivated to protect members.

It's like the law for having to wear a seat-belt isn't a presumption that you're a poor driver...it's to make sure that in the event of an accident...you're a safe as possible. The inconvenience of having our shirts creased is compensated ten-fold by the fact we've got less chance of going through the window in a crash.

Pretty poor analogy but it's a similar thing

[ScoobyStoo]

I'm new to this game too but can see the point of the 50 post/1 month limit. To be honest, SGL is very open compared to a lot of other online communities. I'm a member of a few other forums that have been so plagued by trolls and other general time wasters that most the content (not just the classifieds) is locked down. This includes really useful stuff like the equipment review sections, which were becoming so polluted with unintelligent comments and bogus reviews by shills that they were next to useless.

By comparison, the astronomy community is very open, intelligent and helpful. And thankfully seems to fly under the radar of a lot of the numpties that inhabit internetland.

As an aside, I finally managed to bag my first bargain from AstroBuySell last night thanks to Perry's suggestion. Nabbed a Televue 20mm Plossl for 47 quid. Game on!

[rocketandroll]

Having recently been through it... At the time, the 50 post / 1 month rule seemed a pain in the backside... but with hindsight, it actually gave me time to get the right advice and eventually buy the right gear.

I've given up on UK Astro Buy &Sell, i've replied to 5 or 6 ads but never had a reply. I can only assume the items were long since gone and no one bothers to update their ads.

Ben

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[ScoobyStoo]

I've given up on UK Astro Buy &Sell, i've replied to 5 or 6 ads but never had a reply. I can only assume the items were long since gone and no one bothers to update their ads.

In the last few weeks I've learned that anything of interest to the beginner on ASB (i.e. decent cheapish eyepieces, barlows etc) get snapped up within minutes of the ad being posted. If it's over a day old then forget it. The more expensive specialist stuff tends to hang around much longer.

And yes, I agree, the not updating the advert status thing is annoying.

[ismangil]

In the last few weeks I've learned that anything of interest to the beginner on ASB (i.e. decent cheapish eyepieces, barlows etc) get snapped up within minutes of the ad being posted. If it's over a day old then forget it. The more expensive specialist stuff tends to hang around much longer.

And yes, I agree, the not updating the advert status thing is annoying.

Glad I can help you get a bargain

I wouldn't write off Active ads over a day even. For example I am looking for used 127 Mak, there is one still available on an older ad, even though lots of recent Wanteds for that scope as well! I presume the Wanteds didn't search enough, and the sellers didn't seek out the wanteds.

And by the way I still didn't end buying the Mak, just because I'm not in a hurry and maybe something closer I can inspect first came up.

[MikeWilson]

I have a solution to the AB&S issue coming right up shortly...

[astroimpulse]

Not that I have a problem with it....but still...

[John]

Dave,

I'm truly at a loss to understand why my post has caused you to react so strongly

It was personal advice aimed to help a bit, not a policy line from a Moderator / Admin perspective.

Sorry you feel like you do but every forum has it's rules and I think it's members need to respect and abide by them, even if they don't necessarily agree with all of them.

Clear skies.

Every time I logon to SGL, my over-riding thought is 'This is the place where 'Admin' think I'm a potential dishonest devious person, guilty of being a trader, a nasty person who promptly pays a seller what he/she is asking for.

The 50/1 month rule is OTT and insulting to each newcomer.

In life do you meet and greet everyone with the same approach?

In wouldn't be a very nice world if everyone adopted this SGL policy.

I thought perhaps it was a sponsor rule to ensure newcomer sales go there way, as directed by some threads.

OK, I'm guessing that isn't true, but that's turning the tables. Suspicion of doing something you are innocent of isn't very nice.

In law, you are innocent until proven guilty.

Is there a ducking stool suspected traders go through?

[MikeWilson]

Check my posts and you will see I have endeavored to contribute even though I am a beginner and can contribute very little without ever using a telescope.

This is a hobby for me, coming here is a choice based upon pleasure.

I respect whatever rules are made, but thought I should given constructive feedback, on the double standard of friendly introduction and 'third degree'. Life is about balance on a two way street, not just meekly accepting everything.

Feel free to delete my posts if you think giving constructive criticism is wrong.

Hi Dave, and welcome to SGL! How are you? :-)

If you reply to my post with a simple "Hello, I'm very well thank you. How are you?", you'll have your 50 posts under your belt :-)

All the best,

Mike

[John]

Hi Dave, and welcome to SGL! How are you? :-)

If you reply to my post with a simple "Hello, I'm very well thank you. How are you?", you'll have your 50 posts under your belt :-)

All the best,

Mike

But Dave will still need to wait until the month has elapsed Mike as he joined the forum on 24 May

And to answer an earlier point in this thread, meaningless posts made just to rack up post numbers have been deleted in the past.

Goodness knows, there is enough going on here to enable full participation for a month

[Vicky]

In the month since I have joined I have found all but just two posts extremely positive and a great number of them useful or interesting.

Yeah, I agree, the 50 post/1 month rule seemed a pain but at the end of the day its only about being a little patient and engaging just a little bit with others who have similar interests in common.

I agree that the for sale section should be for people wanting a fair price for their stuff, but also that it should go to a home where it will be used/enjoyed. Its a shame there isn't a way to ensure this is what actually happens.

Welcome Dave, I hope you enjoy the site as much as I have this past month- it has flown by...

Best wishes,

Vicky

[Tim]

oooh Dave, be careful!!! When I first came here in 2007 I stated the same as you, that I was probably only going to be in it for short term, that I had a fixed budget (£1500 iirc) and that I wanted a telescope that would let me see everything and photograph everything.

Four years later, and circa £20k lighter I am still very into astrophotography, despite usually going from hobby to hobby, and despite its frustrations.

As regards the 50 post/30 day rule, you must understand that SGL is one of the busiest astro forums in the english speaking world, and very attractive to those looking to make a few quid. We have had to remove access to the for sale section or in some cases completely ban those who seek to exploit the good nature of the members to their own gain. Sadly, the various astro forums have been used by unscrupulous individuals to obtain goods and make promises of supplying goods that were never kept, but that is a different story.

[Ant]

Every time I logon to SGL, my over-riding thought is 'This is the place where 'Admin' think I'm a potential dishonest devious person, guilty of being a trader, a nasty person who promptly pays a seller what he/she is asking for.

I wasn't thinking that - but I'm starting to wonder...

The 50/1 month rule is OTT and insulting to each newcomer.

It's not insulting or OTT, but if you feel this way then no-one is forcing you to stay.

In wouldn't be a very nice world if everyone adopted this SGL policy.

Sorry to burst your bubble - but it isn't a very nice world out there. I think that the community that we have here is significantly nicer than the rest of the world. We have people helping others for no personal gain, giving time to explain things and guide other members - you don't see that very often in the general public.

I thought perhaps it was a sponsor rule to ensure newcomer sales go there way, as directed by some threads.

The sponsor does not decide the rules on SGL.

Ant

[astroimpulse]

I agree that the for sale section should be for people wanting a fair price for their stuff, but also that it should go to a home where it will be used/enjoyed. Its a shame there isn't a way to ensure this is what actually happens.

Hi Vicky,

I think many will agree with me that the rule insures that it will indeed be enjoyed. Without the protection it would more likely be bought up and traded by a trader.

I bought my main scope from the sale section and I'm enjoying it to this day.

I may love it a little too much

But when you buy from members here you can at least have some assurance that they're not up to no good.

People soon forget about the 50+ rule once they pass it.

[nightfisher]

dave,

here is my 2p`s worth!

for what its worth the post from jahmanson was not insulting, it was well worded and to the point.

The 50/month rule is fair and in my opinion excellent as it gives new comers a chance to decide what direction to go in.

The rules on sgl are VERY fair, and the members polite and helpful......

I moderate on another forum, where we do not tolerate a huge amount of things, and absolutely no buy or sell, in comparison this site is very easy going

[RobH]

Dave, the only OTT and insulting thing going on here is that reaction.

Suck it up...it's the way it is.

You should be motivated to learn here...not to take from the community whilst putting zero back in (other than victim whining).

It's got NOTHING to do with being accused of being guilty or dishonest and EVERYTHING to do with SGL protecting (to the best of their abilities) the members who come here and contribute to the community...ultimately making this place what it is.

Well said.

Dave...when you joined the forum you agreed to abide by it's rules and code of conduct.

That's the way we run things here, end of story.

[Vicky]

I may love it a little too much

But when you buy from members here you can at least have some assurance that they're not up to no good.

People soon forget about the 50+ rule once they pass it.

The rule does seem to work so its all good and it does go much quicker than you expect if you engage with the community here- I already spend far more time mooching here than I usually do on another well known social networking site.

Can you love a scope too much? Mine hasn't made its way into the cold (and probably better suited) garage since I like to glance over at it in the corner now and then.

I think the best thing about this forum is the friendly and warm atmosphere- and I don't feel even though I'm just starting out.

Best wishes,

Vicky

[nightfisher]

well said vicky, it is a great place to be

[MikeWilson]

LOL Vicky, you and me both!

This is a great place to hang out at all hours there's usually someone online you can chat to. That in part is what makes SGL such a good community.

Best,

Mike

[astroimpulse]

Couldn't agree more!

A lot of the guys here have been around the hobby for ages yet they still spend the effort in writing a post you know they've probably written a million times in order to help.

Proper love for the hobby (not sure if hobby is correct).

When you go to star parties or meets it's the same...everyone willing to help and be friendly.

Love it (and my scope)

[MikeWilson]

There's another way to think about this hobby.

Since starting in August, I'd say I've been moderately obsessed with it. However, I have only 15 nights of imaging (and only a few observation reports prior to that) in nine months.

Oh, and 1,500 posts on SGL :-)

There's a lot to this hobby that doesn't necessarily revolve around gear acquisition, and it's quite reasonable to go for 50 posts and a month before getting access to the For Sale section. Still, one can ask for advice in the beginners section, receive it and go out to retail (or indeed, ask around) for the scope you're looking for.

Clear skies,

Mike

[JamesF]

When I joined, the posting/membership length rules really didn't bother me. It would have been useful to be able to at least read the for sale section, but it's not like I got stressed about it. To get wound up about it almost seems like paranoia to me.

The bottom line is that if you want to participate in a forum run by someone else then you play by their rules regardless of their origin. Some might be happy for you to present a reasoned case for change, but otherwise if you can't live with the rules there's nothing stopping you going somewhere else. This is not a public service. It costs money to run (often well into the thousands of pounds per year) and the people stumping up the cash (or the people they choose to allow to run the system) get to set the rules. That's the way life works.

As it happens, there are certain rules on SGL that I feel might be a bit heavy-handed or unnecessary. I'm prepared to live with them because I think the benefits of being part of SGL outweigh what I perceive to be the negative side of the rules I don't agree with. If they didn't then I wouldn't take part.

There are some services I run at my own expense where I get to set the rules. People occasionally complain about them, but no-one has yet presented a coherent argument as to why they should be changed. Some people might not like it, but if there's one certainty in life it's that you can't please all the people all the time.

James

[Chris Stacey]

I just wish the 50post/1 month rule was in place when I started here....it would have stopped me buying stuff I didn't need....the 8" heater band for a reflector scope is one I won't even let myself forget....I slap myself every time I think about it....

[MrsR]

Hmmmmm dare I reply - second time one of my threads has sparked off a debate when I didn't intend it too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!