Doing it wrong or expecting too much...?

[ibraidwo]

Hi all,

Clear skies in Surrey tonight so spent 11.30 - 02.30 in the garden. Not much light coming into the garden - just some dim glows on the horizon.

Jupiter was lovely to see and I was able to find it/see it without aligning my goto.

I then did an alignment. I ended up doing this three times trying both brightest star and 2 star alignments, neither seemed to really give accurate alignment. Tripod was level and am pretty sure that I got my stars right (Vega, Altair and Capella). When I slewed to Jupiter again it wasn't quite in my eyepiece view (Baader zoom at 24x in SW130P). It also couldn't find Neptune or Uranus - stars were visible but no planets!

How accurate should an aligned goto be?

I then tried the 'tour' options - andromeda, pinwheel, dumbell and a few others, but still didn't see anything but stars.

Am I missing something? Or am I expecting too much? Or was my bad alignment not allowing me to find them?

Any thoughts or help greatly appreciated...

Thanks,

Ian

[Carbon Brush]

As Jupiter was not quite right when you went back, the goto is actually 'go somewhere nearish'. Unfortunately manufactuers often give the impression that goto works well straight from the box. In my experience this is often not the case. Unless the mount and everything else are really well setup (aligned) there are always errors. Mount/scope alignment is a big subject. Usually I use goto to get to a definite bright star near the object of interest, then centre by a small move on the direction keys and tell the mount this is a new sync position. The exact method of telling the mount a new sync position varies with controller and mount type. Then you need only a small move (little new error) to get to the dim object.

Don't know how clear and dark your sky was. Ours was not up for anything more than bright stars last night. But in general terms, a bit of high level wispy cloud will show bright stars for calibration. But dim objects, like M31, are washed out. Could this have been part of the problem?

Hope something in there is of use. David.

[Merlin66]

The GOTO etc is only one of the tools you should use..

A good star map and practise in "star hopping" to your selected target will soon improve your capability.

Get as much time as you can on easy objects to "train your eye to see" - at least 4-5minutes studying each object. Look for references in books and on the web to help you get a better appreciation of what your scope and your eye can do.

I've been an amateur for over fifty years, and I'm still learning.....

Practise, practise,prac...

Onwards and Upwards

[bombassa]

You might just be able to see uranus is not just a 'star-dot' but a disc. I don't know about neptune.

But you wont see surface details on either. The distance is just to great for our small scopes.

[faulksy]

also what e.p did you use as in focal length i use something like a 9mm and defocus slightly to make a bit of a dougnut then centre in the field of view,

[Steve Ward]

I think you'd be better setting up and aligning before you aim at your first target .

Reading your post you say that you viewed Jupiter and then did an alignment...... that'll be a quick way to confuse a GO-TO.....

Steve.

[Capricorn]

Goto's and planets do not always work well.

A planet does not sit stationary as does a star, the path of each is not the same, may be similar but not the same. They may be close to the ecliptic but only close - thats why we get transits of Venus very rarely. Next comes the retrograde movement that is apparent. Then all of these do not occur at the same rate/time owing to the orbital periods of each planet.

[Darkstar_1]

GOTO is not as accurate as the makers claim, and is a pain in the neck for me; You would do better with a good star chart and a Telrad finder. The benefits are twofold, 1. you can find your target pretty easily and 2. you get to learn the night sky.

[pallas15]

One other thing is just because the goto has thousands of programmed objects ,very few will actually be clearly visible with a 130 scope..many objects will be "out of range" due to aperture size,atmospherics,light pollution etc.most dso"s such as galaxies and nebulas will be little more than a "smudge" with a low power EP.For better lining up ,(as stated) you could try switching to your strongest Ep,aligning with the arrows until centered and then pressing the align control, to fine tune.Its the same as having to move position slightly when adding a barlow or changing EP"s. the closer you are "zoomed in" the more precise you need to be and the quicker the object will move from view.

[cantab]

I then tried the 'tour' options - andromeda, pinwheel, dumbell and a few others, but still didn't see anything but stars.

Am I missing something? Or am I expecting too much? Or was my bad alignment not allowing me to find them?

M31 (Andromeda Galaxy) is really obvious at low power, even in severe light-pollution - though it takes a good-sized scope to see it as anything other than a "bright fuzzy". So I'd say your GoTo's gone somewhere else. M27 (Dumbbell) isn't so obvious but should be visible - bear in mind it looks a lot larger than most planetary nebulae. The Pinwheel Galaxy (usually M101 but the name's sometimes used for others), being a face-on spiral, might suffer under light-polluted skies.

[JamesM]

Given that you correctly input the required details in properly (latitude/longitude position, current time zone, date suing the mm/dd/yyyy format,current time and daylight saving) did you choose two stars either side of the meridian (a line going from the north to the south) as the wider the gap the more accurate the alignment? Did you get the alignment successful message? Finally when using the Baader zoom eyepiece (I have one of these and they are great!) did you zoom down to the 8mm stop to increase your accuracy of centering your chosen alignment star. The zoom has one slight disadvantage and that is the field of view is not particularly generous at the the 24mm end.

Lastly, have you got sufficient power running the mount? I believe it needs a minimum of 1amp continuous supply so perhaps your power source needs recharging?

James

[GiveMeSomeSpace]

^{I've got the Celestron version of the same mount which came with the 127 slt mak. I dont bother with the goto as I too have found it a bit hit and miss (more miss then hit lol) , I've read that a lot of people say these goto's are accurate so maybe there's a difference between each one made due to manufacturing tollerences (lack of) as they are cheap mounts. By the time you've done the 3 or 2 star alignment, most likely 2 or 3 times lol as it won't have worked the first time you probably could have gone through half the list of messier objects and made a cuppa and a sandwhich lol! I'm quite good with technical stuff so its not a case of user error/ inability either. I still think its a nice little mount for visual observing though, great and quick for the moon and planets as you can manually slew to the object and do a quick (solar system) align on the moon/ chosen planet /sun and it will do a nice job of keeping the object in the field of view without having to polar align etc, if used in this way it becomes a very handy and quick, portable observing platform and ideal for solar observing with a small solar scope, Taking into account its limitations and utilizing it for what it does do and using it for those purposes it becomes a very handy little mount indeed. This goto gets you generally in the right area (once aligned) but by the time you've inputted where you wana go into the handset you could have done that yourself by then and in both instances you still have to slew around to find/ centre the object so the manual slewing wins everytime in my book. Also I agree with the people who say you learn the sky a lot better and quicker by star hopping and looking at charts.}

[ibraidwo]

Many thanks for the numerous replies. Have just got back from a long day out on the beach!

It looks as though the mount can't be fully trusted... What's better Brightest Star or 2 Star alignment?

To answer some of your questions.

1) I used opposite stars to the west and east. I only used Jupiter once out of the three tries, just to see if it made a difference. When I did use it it also wanted to align on 2 stars as well...

2) I use a self made 7AmpH battery box which I had charged a few nights back and it was happily driving the scope.

3) I was indeed fine tuning with the arrows to centre The alignment stars.

4) The sky was pretty clear over my garden last night

5) I used one of my iPads astronomy apps to give me my location and also the right time and date :-)

6) I disconnected the battery each time I did an alignment, so it shouldn't have gotten confused with me viewing Jupiter first

7) I even walked away from the scope and sat down with a red torch and a planisphere trying to work out what was where. I must do this a lot more to get familiar with the stars!

And some things I plan to try, based on the feedback

1) De-focus the alignment star to get a centred doughnut

2) Use less mag, I only used my Baader zoom and barlow last night. I also have 32mm and 40mm Plossls

3) Spend more time learning the sky at night and star hopping - I think going to some local meets might help here

4) Learn how to add additional alignment points, as I didn't know that this was possible

5) I guess I really need to learn what my scope can and can't do - the only real way to do this is to see for myself

When I use the ZS66 I use a standard tripod with ball mount so I then have to find things myself, although then I'm usually looking at Saturn or the moon.

Thanks again everyone.

Ian

[Pete Presland]

if the goto is aligned correctly, i would expect it to be pretty on the object you select every time.if you are using your zoom eyepiece, why don't you zoom in slowly when are doing the "correction" bit of the alignment (after it slews to the target, and you have to center the target) i would have thought the higher you push the magnification the more accurate the alignment.

once you have done the alignment resist going the deep sky objects, instead go for Vega, Arcturus, Albireo, anything that you know where it is and you are going to definitely be able to see.

[Helite]

I was having similar issue's with my goto, there is a run-down of my issues in this thread http://stargazerslou...6-synscan-help/ I was finding the star's no problems but when it came to planets the scope was a mile off. No one could really give me any more advice so I just decided to "mess" with the settings a little to see what results I got. Now I dont know if its just a coincidence or if this was actually what the problem was but when it was asking for the time zone I changed it from the default +00.00 GMT to -00.00 GMT, from there on out it seemed to work and got Jupiter slap in the middle of the eyepiece. I have no idea why putting - instead of + would make the slightest bit of difference, but it worked for me so im sticking with it. I feel a bit daft even posting this suggestion but it seemed to work for me so if it might work for someone else all the better, I know how frustrating it can be learning your way round this.

I have also started to use the PAE function and so far it "seems" to be helping a little, though I have very little experience with it so it could just be optimism that is making me think things are getting better.

Anyhow, good luck with it!

[ibraidwo]

Thanks @bunnygod1, I was generally doing that with the zoom along with the barlow to get even closer in.

Going to known objects (or what I think they are) might be a very good idea...

...if I try and work out what something is first and then cheking whether I'm right after the GOTO takes me there will have 2 benefits - the first is to help me learn the night skies and secondly aid the GOTO's alignment.

Am off to look up whether I can add further alignment/sync positions as @DavidValentine suggested.

One other question - does the time taken between 1st alignment star and 2nd alignment star have an impact - as the heavens move quite a bit if you're faffing about centering the 2nd star?

Best,

Ian

[dmahon]

GOTO is not as accurate as the makers claim, and is a pain in the neck for me; You would do better with a good star chart and a Telrad finder. The benefits are twofold, 1. you can find your target pretty easily and 2. you get to learn the night sky.

I disagree - when properly aligned (with objects on both sides of the meridian, and preferably objects in each quadrant) it is incredibly accurate - acurate enough for me to image things I can't even see.

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Ian, just another thought which I think has not been mentioned, did you take the time to level the tripod accross all the legs in every direction before doing the alignment. If all the parameters are set correctly and the tripod is levelled, then run through the alignment. Cheers Paul.

[ibraidwo]

Hi Paul,

After the first alignment I thought about levelling the tripod and did that before the following 2 alignments. The synscan tripod has a built in bubble level.

Cheers,

Ian

[Pete Presland]

One other question - does the time taken between 1st alignment star and 2nd alignment star have an impact - as the heavens move quite a bit if you're faffing about centering the 2nd star?

Ian

as long as your guide scope is aligned and you select a fast slew to get you in the right area, you should not take too long too make a difference.

[dave750t]

5) I used one of my iPads astronomy apps to give me my location and also the right time and date :-)

I've got the same scope and mount and I find the GOTO pretty accurate - it should certainly get the required object into the field of vision of the 25mm eyepiece. Are you sure you have set the right time? - time zone is GMT +0.00 and daylight saving should be set to YES.

[Aenima]

Greetings,

Seeing your post about having difficulty with the 130p azgoto ~I thought i'd say a few things hoping to be of use.

The first few months with the goto mount is almost always a process of confusion followed by dissilusion, my own included.

As for the az mount - after you work out the little kinks in the operation and which deepsky objects are beyond the 130p's optics, regardless of the mounts accuracy, you'll start to like it again, its when you lose the goto and wrestle with an undriven eq mount and desperate searching of planetariums/starcharts all night that you'll come back to the azgoto (as i have) with renewed appreciation. It isnt perfect, and yes its cheap, but given time and familiarity it will likely be a mount you'll hang on to and, like a few others, even modify it for extra stability - which it needs - and look into buying a better but lighter scope for it to really appreciate a mount that can hold its position often for hours in the right circumstances.

If you persevere with it and know its limitations/strong points, i'm sure it'll work out fine.

PS

I can see everythings been covered regarding hints n tips to get the most out of your set-up, so I went for a different approach here, hope your astro-sessions improve for you.

(A huge side note is the difference between a modded pro equatorial synscan mount and our little az-goto's - one is slightly more capable than the other.)

Best of luck.

Aenima

[Aenima]

I've got the same scope and mount and I find the GOTO pretty accurate - it should certainly get the required object into the field of vision of the 25mm eyepiece. Are you sure you have set the right time? - time zone is GMT +0.00 and daylight saving should be set to YES.

A good point, also date is US format.

Depends if your having 'a little' trouble or 'totally messed up' trouble as to whether the date/time is wrong.

There is a thread on here called az-goto, what the manual doesnt tell you' with some helpful stuff in it.

Aenima

[ibraidwo]

I've got the same scope and mount and I find the GOTO pretty accurate - it should certainly get the required object into the field of vision of the 25mm eyepiece. Are you sure you have set the right time? - time zone is GMT +0.00 and daylight saving should be set to YES.

Yes - I definitely set the time right, selected +0.00 and DST set to yet. Although I might try the suggestion of trying -0.00!

[ibraidwo]

as long as your guide scope is aligned and you select a fast slew to get you in the right area, you should not take too long too make a difference.

One thing that I didn't mention was that I checked my finder scope alignment first!