Used V new?

[Celeste]

Hi guys, I have narrowed my search down a bit (upto now anyway ) to 3 or 4 first serious 'scopes. My criteria (allowing for my advanced lack of knowledge and my sons special needs) that we must have a GOTO mount. I don't have time to plot my course in the sky so to speak and with the GOTO it does just that...goes to lol. I did take a venture to a camera/telescope shop and was overwhelmed by the sellers speel. I was trying to ask about Celestron 'scopes but that was met with a stern face and no words.....the guy obviosuly doesn't like them He kept steering me towards Skywatcher 'scopes. He circled a few out after hearing of my intentions and gave me prices to which my jaw fell down a bit! My question is...do I buy new or perhaps get a better 'scope used? My thoughts would be on the condition of a used one, and with new I get the warranty.

My contenders so far are:

Skywatcher SKYMAX-102 SynScan AZ GOTO

Skyhawk-1145P SynScan AZ GOTO

SkyMax 127 SynScan AZ GOTO 127mm Maksutov-Cassegrain

Used Celestron Nexstar 4SE

So, for a starter do these sound ok?

[blinky]

A lot of astronomers really look after their kit - I always look around for 2nd hand kit before parting with my hard earned. Most of the time you get well cared for kit and a decent saving of the new price.

[Astro_Baby]

Be wary of ebay unless you know what your doing - I have seen too many people buy lemons especially beginners.

How much do you want to spend and where are you based - I have a Nexstar 4SE thats mint - you wont find a better one 2nd hand and I'll chuck in a few accessories to get you started but I am asking £299 for it. It doesnt have its original box but it does have all the original supplied bits, manuals etc.

Anyone on the board knows my gear is immaculate and well cared for. If your local I'll even throw in a nights observing so I can show you how to use it.

The other ones I'd go for off your list would be the SKymax 127 GoTo.

The big advantage the Celestron Nexstar 4 has over the others is that its GoTo is a bit more refined and its tripod is a lot more stable.

[brantuk]

Both Celestron and Skywatcher are reputable brands of mass produced scope - you'll also find Meade up there too. He was probably stern cos he only sells one brand lol.

Scopes will vary in size, type, quality, and price of course. A very reasonable starter scope will cost £130-£200 brand new (possibly £90-£140 second hand) depending on what you get.

As Blinky suggests - if going for s/h buy from another astronomer, rather than auction sites where it's too easy for a beginner to get caught out.

Learn about scopes by asking lots of questions here, and your post count will soon reach 50 when you'll see the "For Sale" section (you might get some offers meantime) you never know

[Celeste]

Oooh now that offer is very tempting Astro I can't see where you are at though. What are the extra's? I am just on your website reading your review of the 'scope. I take it the 'scope is just average for the price range? I can go a bit more in pennies so any other 'scopes that I can consider along with the ones mentioned? I think the Skymax 127 is £350.

Edit: Lol Brantuk only 45 more to go (does one word per post count or does that result in a ban? lol)

[pvaz]

If you do a side by side comparison Skywatcher usually offers the best value for money when compared to similar Celestron telescope and it's also a good brand.

With goto as a requirement here are a few good scopes to consider:

SE Series Any on this list, the bigger the more you'll see, it depends really on how much you want to spend and how much weight you wish to carry around.

Maksutov - Skywatcher Skymax 127 SynScan AZ GOTO The sky watcher equivalent to the celestron 5SE for 60% of the 5SE price.

Or completely different design that costs less to produce so you get much more aperture (= ability to see fainter objects) for the price.

Dobsonians - Skywatcher Skyliner 200P FlexTube GOTO (equivalent to the celestron 8SE in light gathering ability for about 70% of the price)

GOTO does add a lot to the price as you're getting a built in computer + motors to do the finding for you. For it to be accurate you do need to setup the scope pointing north and do a 2 known stars alignment, which you need to identify. After that you punch in the code and it points the scope for you.

[Astro_Baby]

HI Celeste - well I am not pushing the scope overmuch. I dont think that would be fair and I would prefer other members advise on this for impartiality.

I'm based near Gatwick airport but I troll up and down to Portsmouth and Worthing quite a bit.

Extras - I'll throw in a decent quality dewhield which you will need for this type of scope, a decent powerlead (always a boon on powered hardware), and a moon filter for the scope. They are all worth having.

As I say the scopes mint - its optics are perfect and theres not a mark on it.

There are advantage to Maksutov type scopes over reflectors where children are concerned - they are a bit more hardy.

ANway as I say I shant push - the offers there if your interested.

Mel

[Celeste]

Ahhh your too far away

On a side note I just managed to spot a clear break in the clouds and saw Jupiter's sparkle so my son raced to grab his little poxy 'scope and I set it up to see what we could see. It was only a bright round ball in the finder with maybe a hint of a band....OMG my son was beside himself with excitement! But the clouds have moved over again. He's so excited now

[phattanglo]

Hi Celeste, welcome to SGL,

The advice you'll recieve on SGL is generated by everyones genuine enthusiasm for the hobby.

Rest assured if you buy from someone on SGL the goods will be in good nick and will be for sale for a genuine reason, upgrading etc.

Use your 50 posts to ask lots of Q's, you'll be there before you know it

You mentioned you have specific needs from your scope so you may find by you 50th post you end up knowing exactly which scope you want.

Then it's a case of either waiting for someone to have your scope choice for sale or putting in a wanted ad.

It's amazing how a wanted ad will prompt someone to offer the scope usually because they are lucky so & so's who have a collection and maybe don't use it as much.

Don't discount non GOTO scopes, if you're not looking to do any imaging you can get a tremendous amount of scope for your money.

Searching previous posts regarding Dobsonian mounted scopes with simple navigating aids ( Wixey, homemade setting circles etc) will bring up a wealth of information.

Again members who know about these things will always be happy to help with any additional info.

[MikeWilson]

Hello Celeste,

Welcome to SGL.

I don't want to tread on anyone's toes here - AstroBaby has an excellent scope there and generally speaking buying second hand gear from other astronomers tends to be better all round than going via eBay.

Depending on where you are, I have an almost new, totally mint Skywatcher Mak 127 (5") on a brand new (delivered today) Alt-Az GOTO mount and the original three Skywatcher eyepieces. I'm selling this kit with a Skywatcher light pollution filter and moon filter and a homemade dew shield made from a camping mat. Total value of everything new £400. For just £270.

Likewise, no pressure at all. Seriously If you're interested and you're near Farnborough, Hampshire - you're more than happy to take a look, I'm happy to come out to deliver it within a reasonable distance and the only thing you'll need to use it all night is a 12v power supply (Maplin sell a portable battery for around £25) which can be a battery or a wall adaptor (240v plug to 12v cigarette adaptor for £10 from Amazon).

Lastly (although this should be the first question really!), what do you want to see through your chosen telescope?

[johninderby]

You might consider the Celestron 127 SLT GOTO instead of the SkyWatcher. Same OTA as the SkyWatcher, but the Celestron's GOTO has more features than the SkyWatcher and I prefer it.

John

[gedmac]

used equipment is no detriment at all as long as its been cared for and as a novice myself the equipment i,ve bought out of the for sale section on here has been top notch.as a point of note there is currently a skywatcher mak 127 goto up for grabs with extras at i think £270 in the for sale section and its virtually brand new:icon_eek: AB,s 4se is also a good buy:p

"oops" just read mike,s post must,ve posted while i was 1 finger typing:D

[Celeste]

Ok confusion setting in lol (not hard to do) I thought the GOTO mounts were all pretty much the same bit of kit? Some mention 4k objects some say 42k+... I am hoping for the 42k+ one (keeps him busy)

Thanks for the offer Mike but as with Astro your too far away Shame as it sounds a good offer We are hoping to have a good investigation of the moon, see as many planets as we can and some star clusters, nebula's etc. Well see as much as we can do really. I understand some objects only really come into their own when mixed with imaging software etc, but that may be his preffered course later.

John I really got the impression this seller did not rate Celestron well at all....refusing to stock them.

[MikeWilson]

Hi Celeste,

Skywatcher telescopes are made by a company called Synta who also own Celestron. However the Celestron mounts are slightly better insofar as the Celestron alignment system is more flexible than the Skywatcher one. I think the Celestron mount also has a battery compartment built in, whereas the Skywatcher one has a battery bag. Either way, you don't want to be using AA batteries as they'll run dry quite quickly.

The reason I ask about targets is that the Mak telescopes do better on Planets and the Moon than a comparable Newtonian and the Newtonian generally better on DSO (including nebulas) than the Mak. The Maks generally have a smaller field of view caused by the longer focal length. This means that you will get brighter, more contrasty (is that a word?) views through the eyepiece than you will through the Newt. The Newt may show stars slightly elongated at the edges of any given eyepiece whereas the Mak probably won't on the same eyepiece.

If you want to take images of the planets and the moon, the Mak design is awesome for that. Here's a picture that I took of the moon using this Mak and my iPhone camera.

The Moon and Jupiter

It looks much better (sharper, more 3D) through an eyepiece.

I have a bigger Newtonian (6") and the views of the moon and planets are not as good as they are through a 5" Mak. But the 5" Mak takes longer to cool down than the Newt (an hour before it can be reliably used).

So as you see, it's all compromises

[brantuk]

If you're anywhere near Leics/Derby/Notts area you'd be welcome to join us at an EastMids Stargazers observing session for a demo of some gear Celeste

[Ags]

Hi, I have a 4SE, and it has a database of 40,000 objects. But with its 102mm aperture it can only give pleasing views of a few hundred brighter objects. That is still plenty and I am happy with my 4SE, with its good optics and solid mount. If you want to see a wider range of objects, the you need more aperture and darker skies - the number of objects in the GOTO database is not the limiting factor.

[Ags]

You must also budget for eyepieces and maybe filters, with good eyepieces going for £40 - £100 or more... I was shocked when I started out and discovered that eyepieces cost a lot more than the £10 - £20 I had anticipated!

[MikeWilson]

Thanks for the offer Mike but as with Astro your too far away Shame as it sounds a good offer

Am I? That's a shame I sometimes travel up towards Cambridge but I'm not due there for a while yet. That's typically as far 'oop North as I go for work.

We are hoping to have a good investigation of the moon, see as many planets as we can and some star clusters, nebula's etc. Well see as much as we can do really. I understand some objects only really come into their own when mixed with imaging software etc, but that may be his preffered course later.

Generally the Mak design might suit you well there! But also consider (if you don't mind swinging the tube around manually) a dobsonian (newt).

John I really got the impression this seller did not rate Celestron well at all....refusing to stock them.

"Refusing" to stock them? Maybe the returns aren't so good on Celestron gear?

[Celeste]

Thanks Brantuk. I am in the Leics area and would love to pop by a meet When is the next one organised for? If I could bring my son along that would be great

Ags, omg really? I have seen eyepiece kits for a Celestron at £140 with severel pieces and filters, I assumed if the scope eyepiece size is 1.25" they would fit am I correct? Also it has been mentioned about Plossl pieces being good ones, again I have no idea if that is true and if so what is so special about them?

Mike according to multimap you are 132 miles away And yeah...I asked about Celestron he said they are not good quality...and waffled on again about the maksutov cassegrain and how they were the best for what I need and the 102 size was £329 on a GOTO mount. I have found the same scope cheaper elsewhere though

[Ags]

Yes you can pick up plossls for £30 or so. I looked at EP kits but they did not have magnifications I wanted. And with only a small scope, I wanted to get the most out of it with good EPs...

[MikeWilson]

Thanks Brantuk. I am in the Leics area and would love to pop by a meet When is the next one organised for? If I could bring my son along that would be great

I wish I was in the East Midlands as I can't find any active groups around here... You should definitely go along Celeste - I'm a newbie to astronomy too and I've found that the knowledge I've acquired during a couple of star parties this summer to be massively worthwhile in expanding my own enjoyment of the hobby. It's great to get all those questions answered and to see what other equipment people are using - whether they like it and why..

Ags, omg really? I have seen eyepiece kits for a Celestron at £140 with severel pieces and filters, I assumed if the scope eyepiece size is 1.25" they would fit am I correct? Also it has been mentioned about Plossl pieces being good ones, again I have no idea if that is true and if so what is so special about them?

Plossl is the surname of the German bloke who designed them. It's a design, rather than a brand. That Celestron kit contains Plossl eyepieces and so does the Revelation Photo/Visual set which can be had for a little less money direct from FLO. They even did/do(?) an SGL discount on it (call or email them and ask). I'm selling one of the eyepieces from the set, but if you're just starting out and you can afford it - the entire set is worth having as it includes the 32mm widefield as well as a good quality barlow.

Mike according to multimap you are 132 miles away And yeah...I asked about Celestron he said they are not good quality...and waffled on again about the maksutov cassegrain and how they were the best for what I need and the 102 size was £329 on a GOTO mount. I have found the same scope cheaper elsewhere though

132 miles. I'd drive up to 50 to meet you, but even then that's a substantial balance of miles left to go! I don't have the boxes but even so, you'll find most people are generally reluctant to courier scopes as couriers have a habit of being a bit too eager with their packages. And a dropped telescope is not a good way to start your hobby!

Regarding the Mak scopes, the 127mm seems to be the most popular size. I expect the 102 will give you some good views, but if you happened to have the 127, you'd see Jupiter nice and clear (albeit small like a pea held at arms length) with visible banding and detail. Plus you'll see it's moons. It was an awesome sight the first time I saw Jupiter (at first I didn't even know what it was). It is much more exciting seeing the object hanging in space in front of you than seeing it all big and clear in a book or webpage.

[rowan46]

I went second hand for my scope and got a bargain astronomers it seems tend to look after their kit. on the question of go to the celestron nexstar has the better go to but skywatcher tend to give more apperture for the money and as anybody willl tell you apperture trumps go to. I would go for the 127 synscan if you really must have go to.

[andrew63]

Hi Celeste

Sometimes i think you can get to much advice and it gets all too confusing! Its a great suggestion to go to view in an observing session that way you can see things working and thinks will hopefully become a bit clearer.

Regard, andrew

[Celeste]

Agreed I would like to attend a meet, is there one planned this side of xmas? The scope will be my sons present.

[brantuk]

Celeste - feel free to click the EMS link in my signature and join the group. We meet at Sawley near Jn24 of the M1. My partner and I are regulars - it's a small very friendly group - usually 6 or 7 of us turn up at an obs session.

We usually meet Sat nights if the weathers clear and there is allways a thread in the group pages where we decide what time and see who's going.

One or two of the group have the kind of scopes you're looking at. There's also a thread with the precise location.