Finally on the TV firm

[Dai150PL]

With the new kit curse the weather should just about be clearing by the 25th. Have to say thats a very nice present, you lucky man. Would like one but am on santas naughty list. Look forward to reading your review. Alan thanks for replying, would wish you a early merry xmas, buts thats a cert now.

David

[Earl]

I have my set only plossls but there great!

[Nexus 6]

David, think it will be a merry christmas, as long as it's stopped snowing by then! Never used the TV plossls but imagine there pretty good.

Earl, must still be nice to have a set of Tv's no matter what type.

Would imagine they still cost a fair amount of cash.

[spaceboy]

Plossls are all you would need anyway with your telescopes Earl. But a nice set of plossl they are. I didn't know you could get tv's in a set, did you buy each seperate? Must have cost a fortune. I was gona get rid of my celestron plossls but I want to get a grab and go frac so I was gona keep them for that.

[spaceboy]

Is it worth using a cheap plossl for a low power finder? I have a 32 / 40 mm plossl or would the 16mm Nag pick up most stuff used with the 9x50 finder. It would mean keep swapping out the 2" adapter otherwise.

[spaceboy]

Well that it!!! Got 13mm Nagler today and job done. Took a couple of months, plenty ££££'s and hours of sitting at a computer screen but my ep collection is finally complete. Just need the skies to get clear so I can actually get to use them

5mm TMB Clone

6mm Radian

9mm Nagler T6

13mm Nagler T6

16mm Nagler T5

20mm Nagler T5

22mm Nagler T4

[Kef9]

This is a great thread! I'm interested in the 20mm / 22mm nagler comparison. Which do you think is best and why? Are you going to ditch one eventually?

My favourite ep from your set has to be the 16mm nagler. I looks great and compact. I often wish I had one but with a 13mm ethos I don't think I can justify it.

The TMB has to be on the chopping block!

[pbyrne]

Great to see you got the 13mm, it's the workhorse of my collection and has that great combination of decent magnitude and wide field of view.

[spaceboy]

This is a great thread! I'm interested in the 20mm / 22mm nagler comparison. Which do you think is best and why? Are you going to ditch one eventually?

My favorite ep from your set has to be the 16mm nagler. I looks great and compact. I often wish I had one but with a 13mm ethos I don't think I can justify it.

The TMB has to be on the chopping block!

With regards to the comparison I WISH!!! It will have been 2 nights in 2 months now. I managed 10 minutes the other night with my binoculars but other than this I have had to make do with the ocular app on stellarium.

I should really ditch one of them but pros and cons already stand out for them sat on my desk. The 20 has a 6/4 lens con fig so " in theory" should have more light transmission. It comes in a reasonably compact 2" 1.04lb package but has a slim 12mm eye relief. The 22 has a 7/5 lens con fig (for the record T6 have 7/4) but is in with the heavy weights at 1.6lbs but a true space walk 19mm eye relief. I have come across talk of KB in the T4 but nothing that is considered to distracting if you look correctly in to the EP but this remains to be seen.

In the scope I will have to make up my mind what works best for me then see if it's worth selling one or the other. If anything the 20 would go as my only alternative with in my budget to the 22nag was a 27 pan. Although the pan is nothing to turn a nose up at I would only get the same FOV as the 22 but lose back ground contrast due the increased 1mm Exit pupil from the lower magnification. It would be greedy and some what pointless to keep both but this said the 20 is nice and light and dose give superb views but it's just that tad short for the view I want of my favorite DSO. After all this is why we buy eye pieces ... to get the view we want.

I wish I could do a comparison review visualy but TBH I feel these can be inacurate on EP's as your retina changes instantly the moment you remove your eye from the lens. You can look in the same eye piece remove for 20 secs look back in and you are not looking at the same view as your eye naturally changes its perspective due to refocusing on a close object. Not to mention in truth your eye sight has actually degenerated by 20 seconds. Our mental perception can also change from one eye piece to another, I may favor the eye releif on one so naturally only look at the good points when looking through the lens. You only need to down 12 pints and see what you wake up to the next morning to know thats the true.

With regards the TMB I have only just bought it new everyone kept telling me how good they were for the money so I got one for that occasional time we get good seeing in the UK. I did consider the T6 5mm Nag but £200 compared to £38 for the amount of time it may actually get used didn't seen worth the expense. What did I do wrong??? did I miss a bad review about the 5mm or some thing? TBH my initial impressions were high. Again I haven't got to use it but I have never seen such good eye relief in a budget h/power ep. My 4mm plossl has my retina aching after 10 minutes viewing:icon_cyclops_ani:.

[Nexus 6]

Glad to see you now have the 13mm Nagler Spaceboy!

I'm sure you'll have no trouble selling the 20 or 22. if you decide to sell one of them.

Alan

[spaceboy]

Thanks Nexus. The guy in the shop suggested a 12mmT4 I see there are mixed reviews but the same can be said about the 22 T4 and my 1st impressions are good. Thing is the 13mm T6 is a nice tidy little handful compared to the 12mm T4 so it was always going to be the T6 for me.

Just want to be able to use them. Dam weather

[Nexus 6]

Agree about the size of the 13 Nag, it does look handy going by your pics.

Alan

[Kef9]

What did I do wrong??? did I miss a bad review about the 5mm or some thing? TBH my initial impressions were high. Again I haven't got to use it but I have never seen such good eye relief in a budget h/power ep. My 4mm plossl has my retina aching after 10 minutes viewing:icon_cyclops_ani:.

You did nothing wrong. The TMB is exceptional value for money.

It was just that it was the odd one out.

[spaceboy]

Phew!!!! Had me thinking I'd wasted £38

I know what you mean... but I just don't think the amount of viewing I would get from a 5mm EP warrants spending big money on one. My 10" has theoretically a practical power of x508 but in reality it's more like x350 The TMB will give me x240 so even if the seeing isn't good it should get some use but FOV on high power EP's are tight anyway so even if it was found to be a good magnification I would be constantly nudging the dob. If it dose turn out the 5mm in always in the focuser then the TMB will go and an upgrade will be sort after but I just didn't want to spend big money to find it's a dead weight.

[Kef9]

I push my C100ED upto 450x with my nagler zoom at 2mm. To most this may sound ridiculous but I love it. I like jupiter to fill the view and its great for doubles. Of course with a dob it would be difficult to position every few seconds.

I haven't powermated it yet but I think I might do it for a laugh to see how far you can go. 1mm anyone!

[Kef9]

Forgot to add. What do you think of the 16mm nagler and let me know when you do get the chance to compare the 20mm and 22mm naglers. I'm very interested to see what you think. From reviews I have read you get a better experience with the 22mm. I've looked through a 20mm though and I found it was the easiest eyepiece to look through I've ever tried.

[John]

I've owned the 22mm T4 and moved to a 20mmm T5. Both lovely eyepieces. The 22m is more "immersive" due to it's larger eye lens and has longer eye relief. I didn't like the "instajust" feature much but could live with it. The 20mm weighs the same but is more compact and is slightly sharper I reckon.

[moocher]

The 13mm Nagler is a superb eyepiece. I think every astronomer should own one....

Alan

[Moonshane]

Phew!!!! Had me thinking I'd wasted £38

I know what you mean... but I just don't think the amount of viewing I would get from a 5mm EP warrants spending big money on one. My 10" has theoretically a practical power of x508 but in reality it's more like x350 The TMB will give me x240 so even if the seeing isn't good it should get some use but FOV on high power EP's are tight anyway so even if it was found to be a good magnification I would be constantly nudging the dob. If it dose turn out the 5mm in always in the focuser then the TMB will go and an upgrade will be sort after but I just didn't want to spend big money to find it's a dead weight.

I totally agree with you matey. Given how the seeing can vary so much in the UK I wanted to ensure I had all the bases covered and therefore wanted to get EPs in 1mm increments for planetary. I decided my 'main' planetary EPs would be a 12.5mm Baader GO, a 10mm Radian and an 8mm Radian plus the Nagler 6-3 zoom. I didn't want to / couldn't afford to buy the 'fillers' at the standard of Naglers/Radians and therefore went for the also excellent BGOs and TV Plossls to do the job - I have the 11mm TVP and am getting a 15mm for Christmas, and I have a 7mm BGO and a 9mm University Optics Ortho (which will possibly be replaced with a BGO equivalent in due course). This may seem extravagant but the 7mm BGO was £42 used, the 9mm £27 used and the TVP £56 new. The 11mm Plossl £40 used and the 12.5mm BGO new at £70. You'll note that all my purchases are black and green (not than I'm obsessive!). These were mainly bought with books or gear I no longer use and converted to cash to buy something I will!

What I really need is a 7-14mm Nagler zoom! If only.........

[Kef9]

I've owned the 22mm T4 and moved to a 20mmm T5. Both lovely eyepieces. The 22m is more "immersive" due to it's larger eye lens and has longer eye relief. I didn't like the "instajust" feature much but could live with it. The 20mm weighs the same but is more compact and is slightly sharper I reckon.

Thanks for the heads up. It will be interesting to hear spaceboys thoughts. I love hearing peoples opinions.

[spaceboy]

Forgot to add. What do you think of the 16mm nagler and let me know when you do get the chance to compare the 20mm and 22mm naglers. I'm very interested to see what you think. From reviews I have read you get a better experience with the 22mm. I've looked through a 20mm though and I found it was the easiest eyepiece to look through I've ever tried.

The 16mm Nagler T5 is a hard on to answer to be fair. It depends what you expect from such an expensive eye piece. I am lucky "touch wood" I don't require glasses and I have come from happily using some c**py plossl's for 6 years. If I was to pay shelf price for this ep I would be what the f**k! I paid all this money for this little thing? how am I supposed to get 82' out of this? It is also very apparent there is little eye relief 10mm. Although you can tell from the build quality this is an expensive eye piece there appears not much else going for it, UNTIL!!! you put in the focuser and bring it to focus WOW!!! Now this is a different story. It is sharp! almost if not all the entire fov and the contrast is a good balance between giving you bright stars on a dark velvety background. The eye relief is undoubtedly less than you would expect from a Nagler ( average 12mm) but not being an eye glass wearer this was no issue. This is where being used to plossl's really came in to it as a radian it ain't. You can comfortably get your eye in to see the FOV but for some this may be to tight an experience. In day light looking through the lens I did brush the lens with my average length eye lashes. For some reason looking through at night I didn't???? I am able to position easier when I can see the star field but I have also found this with the 9mm. This is were I appreciate that I am getting so much eye piece in what 1st impression comes across no bigger than a 20mm super plossl. You get amazing views from some thing you could (but wouldn't) carry in your jeans pocket. Obviously your going to get different views from different scopes and focal lengths but I would say I prefer the views from this eye piece than I do from the 20mm Nag. The FOV is only minimally shorter and the added contrast due to magnification is what makes this worth putting up with the relatively tight eye relief. But as I say some people may find this a difficult eye piece to get along with and given the 17mm T4 has 17mm ER some would say that is the better option. As I said about the 12 T4 & 13 T6 for me being compact & light is one of my requirements. This is again why the 20 & 22 will be difficult decision as the 22 will give the slightly better FOV I wanted but the 20 has the more compact design and less weight that will still give me a good FOV on most DSO's. Most would consider it a waste as between the 16 & 22 there's not much in it.

You can't please all the people all of the time and this is just as apparent in astronomy as it is in any Curry's or Comet store. You go to buy a 20" TV there's like 20 to pick from. You go to buy a 16mm EP there's like 16 to pick from. I like the 16mm and couldn't be happier but the guy I bought it from had it 2 weeks (receipt to prove it) so thankfully either he didn't like it or he wears glasses.

I'm not one for recommending some thing so particular if I can help it as what works for me may not work for the next, but if you do find one that comes up at the right price and you don't wear glasses then go for it as it is a LOT of eye piece for what you get. Having got one you tend to notice that these don't come up often so I would imagine I'm not the only person to likes them.

The sky is clear tonight but I have the school run tomorrow and dam it's cold out but when I get chance I will try to do some comparisons for everyone on the 20mm vs 22mm although I would not consider myself an expert

[spaceboy]

Well it was clear last night and although the seeing wasn't perfect the stars were bright. I managed to give the 20 vs 22 a go and there's not really much to say. They are both superb eye pieces as you would expect for a cost over £330. The 20 I would say won on the sharpness and gave a some what whiter colour to the stars but to be fair this was at a strain to even notice this difference. Obviously the 22 has a wider FOV and the winning factor for me was the absolutely huge eye relief. It gave me the feeling of like I didn't have a telescope in front of me. The whole field is accessed with no effort at all. For me I think the intastop eye cup was a genius idea but I am well aware this is like Marmite "you either love it or hate it". For me I have no concerns of getting carried away and falling in to the telescope as the adjustment can be made so my eye sits perfect. I read a problem with KB on this EP but I was unable to find any. I would say I am over the moon with both the EP's but between the 16,20,22 the fov is not worth keeping the 20. This said I would be tempted to keep it for the compactness alone as you certainly notice the bulk and extra 0.5lb of the 22.

Due to perception and everyones eyes being different it would be up to the individual to decide what works best for them. I am no expert on what people feel constitutes the ideal eye piece I have only the concern what I want and what I'm prepared to compromise on. In this case the 22 given a massive EYE relief and the larger FOV makes it a truly more pleasurable experience. For me the intastop works and I can't understand why some find it a problem. But there is a some what warmer appearance to the stars and although some what slightly softer stars are apparent it is all so infinitesimal that it's not really not worth giving up the wider FOV between the 16 & 22. I can only assume the slight increase in magnification of the 20 is the reason why the stars appear a sharper white colour in comparison.

In an ideal world I would choose to keep both the EP's as the 20 is a more user friendly EP regards weight and size and still offers near enough the same FOV as the 22 but why settle with 12mm eye relief when you can have 19mm. I only wish my telescope could practically take a 35mm pan as I can only imagine what an experience that is like at 24mm.

You couldn't go far wrong with either eyepiece if FOV is what you are looking for at a cheaper price than an Ehtos. But it comes at the cost of having large eye pieces compared to more acute designs. The 20 T5 is a vast improvement over it's mammoth 2.2lb original conception but your still going to cry out for your mum if you ever dropped one on your little piggy.

SPACEBOY

[John]

Nice write up SPACEBOY

I kept the 20mm T5 in the end only because it fitted slightly better into my EP line up. Both great eyepieces though

[Kef9]

Great write up mate. Is the 20mm on the chopping block then?

[spaceboy]

Nice write up SPACEBOY

I kept the 20mm T5 in the end only because it fitted slightly better into my EP line up. Both great eyepieces though

John

Pretty sweet line up you have too John!!!!!

Kef9 a reluctant sale but yes. It's on UK Astronomy.