Finally on the TV firm

[John]

Would appear I'm not the only one who likes the compactness and views of Naglers. U.K. Astronomy Buy & Sell

Yes I saw that. The 13mm Type 6 is a particularly nice package IMHO - about the same size as a 32mm plossl as well.

Ethe are pretty bulky beasts and I could see that some might not enjoy that aspect of them.

[spaceboy]

I must admit despite my crazy compact EP obsession I was tempted by Lurkers 13 mm Ethos. The thought of the double cluster @ 76x was the driving force behind the urge but I just couldn't get to grips with the idea of 4 inches of eye piece hanging out of the focuser. I agree given it's some what huge dimensions they do weigh in at a respectable 1.3lbs so shouldn't cause too much of an issue regards balancing but as you say John they're not for everyone. Maybe if the Delos do offer the same sharpness in a more compact size these will be more appealing????

[Adz]

Well the gentleman who placed that ad was the one I bought my nagler 13mm from, I feel kinda guilty!

It is definitely starting to grow on me, but at first I wont beat around the bush that I was disappointed. Probably only due to such a strong change in viewing experience.

[spaceboy]

Stands a good chance the seller is experiencing the same trouble adjusting to the Ethos as you are to the Nag Adz. I have to admit I enjoy using my Nagler zoom & BGO the most and I can only assume it's because it is a similar experience to what I had when using my plossls. This is probably why I liked the clones so much. I think it's because there is so much sky behind the object that subconsciously I don't think the magnification is there even though it's more than I could have ever have accomplished on the same object with a shorter FOV plossl. What I mean is you look at Saturn and it seems huge in a 5mm BGO as it fills the FOV but in a 5mm Nag it may not be perceived the same way as it's a spot in the view. If that makes any sense

[John]

It is definitely starting to grow on me, but at first I wont beat around the bush that I was disappointed. Probably only due to such a strong change in viewing experience.

My 1st premium EP's were a Panoptic 24mm and a Nagler T6 13mm. I was a bit dissapointed with both and sold them. Only after trying many other eyepieces did I realise my mistake - so I eventually bought them again

Looking back I was pretty naive - I actually thought I would be able to see things that other eyepieces could not show me

[Moonshane]

personally I think it's about the field stop. I like to see it and some don't mind. I looked through a 22" scope last night (never again) with a 21 Ethos (never again) and a 31mm Nagler (maybe again).

the view through the eyepieces was completely different. I much preferred the Nagler. I am not likely to sell my 13mm Ethos but would really need to think hard before buying another.

[John]

I think one of the design concepts behind ultra-wide eyepieces is the create a sort of "pool of stars" effect, ie: with no "edges" so being able to see the field stop was not what they had in mind.

Personally I can't get enough of that and that possibly stems from many years ago when I made my own eyepiece from an old binocular. It had no field stop so the appearance was like looking out into space although the outer parts of that "space" were horribly distorted of course - it was just an old kellner eyepiece after all !.

I completely accept though that we are all different in what we like and dislike and it's great that the equipment market caters for such a wide range of tastes. What's "right" is what gives us enjoyment as observers - that's all that matters

[spaceboy]

personally I think it's about the field stop. I like to see it and some don't mind.

This is what confuses me. I guess I must be a fan of comfortably seeing the field stop hence enjoying the zoom & BGO's so much all be it in a tracking mount. The field stop can be made out in the T6's you just have to look for it ( which I find uncomfortable) but in the 16T5 due to the short ER most of the time you can't make out the field stop at all but I love using it. The 16T5 is in my mind how I imagined the true spacewalk experience to be. You get a large view of the sky but as you cannot clearly distinguish the field stop it to me seems a larger expanse of sky because of it

I agree with what John said that you have to get used to the different characteristics of any given EP and they may not work for everyone but despite all of this there is no denying if you can get used to naglers they are a great EP. It would appear that for some they were to hasty and didn't realize this until they were gone.

EDIT: I really must stop taking a break during typing posts. The "pool of stars" is the effect I get from the 16T5

[John]

.... The "pool of stars" is the effect I get from the 16T5

It's also the effect you get when your wife finds out what it costs and is armed with a blunt instrument ......

[spaceboy]

..........

[Kef9]

Are we trying to set a record to see how long we can keep the thread going?

[spaceboy]

LOL..... what is it 7 months now? Could try for the year I guess

[bish]

personally I think it's about the field stop. I like to see it and some don't mind. I looked through a 22" scope last night (never again) with a 21 Ethos (never again) and a 31mm Nagler (maybe again).

the view through the eyepieces was completely different. I much preferred the Nagler. I am not likely to sell my 13mm Ethos but would really need to think hard before buying another.

Sorry to be a bit off topic but why do you say that you looked through a 22" (never again). Same with the Ethos 21? Just curious.

[Adz]

This thread has been fantastic insight for me! I just want to say thanks to you guys that have offered me your advice and help, through pms and on here.

[Moonshane]

Sorry to be a bit off topic but why do you say that you looked through a 22" (never again). Same with the Ethos 21? Just curious.

it's that aperture of that size even at a light polluted site is awesome and very offputting to returning to a smaller scope! The 21mm Ethos was also amazing and such a wide field with good magnification. Expensive!!!!!!

With the 22" we had (in not great seeing) M13 at 810X (yes, I'm serious) with the 3.7mm Ethos. OK it was not mega sharp but it was reasonably and completely filled the 110 degree field. Ridiculous. We then looked at M57 the ring and it also filled about half the eyepiece:eek:

[bish]

it's that aperture of that size even at a light polluted site is awesome and very offputting to returning to a smaller scope! The 21mm Ethos was also amazing and such a wide field with good magnification. Expensive!!!!!!

With the 22" we had (in not great seeing) M13 at 810X (yes, I'm serious) with the 3.7mm Ethos. OK it was not mega sharp but it was reasonably and completely filled the 110 degree field. Ridiculous. We then looked at M57 the ring and it also filled about half the eyepiece:eek:

I thought that's what you must have meant. M13 at x810!! I was impressed the other night at x125 in an 8" scope. I remember looking at M13 in a 12" from a dark site and going back home to a 6" under terrible light pollution. Bit of a let down!

[Moonshane]

it was pretty mental but the mount was so smooth it was even easy to manually track it at that mag. the aperture meant that the view did not really dim that much either - amazing. don't get me wring the view was not pin sharp but still amazing - the 'ring' has a new name the 'disc' nebula!

[bish]

I was going to ask how did you ever manage to track at x810. Obviously a fantastic bit of kit. Would also impress (or annoy) the neighbours. The ring has only ever been like a tiny puff of smoke to me. I'm jealous of that nights viewing. Shame it wascloudy at Kielder in March as the observatories 20" was open to have a look through. Never used anything over 16" yet - and that was impressive.

[Moonshane]

That will certainly be my maximum aperture for some time to come - collecting the mirror this weekend and then the rebuild and parts seeking/making starts.

Looking forward to the 26mm Nagler in that!

[bish]

I would think a 16" and nice set of eyepieces should cure the aperture fever for a good while. Bet you can't wait to get up and running with that.

[Gina]

Oh yes, that would be very nice

[John]

I looked at M51 and M13 with a 20" dobsonian at last years SGL star party. The view was simply stunning and my enthusiam for using my 10" newtonian did pall a little for a while

Mind you getting any scope under really dark skies is a real tonic - my little 6" mak-newt was putting up great DSO views at this years star party

Shane - I hope your 16" will make it (with you of course !) to next years SGL event

[spaceboy]

Dark skies ruined the whole observing at home thing for me. Under dark skies you can find most stuff with ease and even with only a 10" the detail you can pick out has you sat for ages staring at the same object. You come home and it just doesn't have the same appeal. I think a 20" and dark skies would have me setting up camp never to come home again.

I remember the excitement I got with my first scope when I saw the rings of Saturn with my own eyes. The same feeling was to be matched several years later by my first visit to dark skies and seeing the spiral arms of M51

IMO there's no amount of aperture or equipment can make up for good seeing and dark skies.

[calibos]

Dark skies ruined the whole observing at home thing for me. Under dark skies you can find most stuff with ease and even with only a 10" the detail you can pick out has you sat for ages staring at the same object. You come home and it just doesn't have the same appeal. I think a 20" and dark skies would have me setting up camp never to come home again.

I remember the excitement I got with my first scope when I saw the rings of Saturn with my own eyes. The same feeling was to be matched several years later by my first visit to dark skies and seeing the spiral arms of M51

IMO there's no amount of aperture or equipment can make up for good seeing and dark skies.

Here! Here!

It bears repeating that in terms of jumps in apeture to get a wow factor improvement one needs to jump to an apeture that gives a 1 magnitude improvement over ones current scope.

So you need to jump to a 16" from a 10" and a 24"+ from a 16" with the size and cost of the scope increasing exponentially very quickly.

Or

You drive a few miles from your mag 3.7 skies to a dark site with mag 5.7 skies and suddenly your 10" is performing at the darksite like a 24" would at home.

[Adz]

The same feeling was to be matched several years later by my first visit to dark skies and seeing the spiral arms of M51

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat you can actually make out spiral arms on DSOs!?