Is The Orion Dobsonian Worth £235 More

[gordyb]

Than the Skywatcher 200P Dobnsonian.At £499 and £265 respectivley is the Orion worth it.

[dweller25]

No

[russ]

Is that the Intelliscope version, the XT8i? Only the difference between like for like models is only approx £30. The XT8 Classic is the competing model. Their (200P vs XT Classic) specs are near identical but the higher import cost makes the Orion unattractive by comparison. Unless you prefer glossy black to white, there's no real reason to choose the Orion.

[Moonshane]

I disagree with dweller25 as I feel it is. I would though as I own two OO UK dobs (assuming you refer to these). the main thing for me is that OK the optics on the standard version are only slightly better (if at all) on the OO UK but the base is a completely different animal - it is superbly made and totally bomb-proof. there's no messing about with shims and worrying about dampness creating uneven surfaces etc due to the composite boards of the SW and similar dobs (which are still excellent value for money). the base is also a lot smaller on the OO UK so if space is a premium this will serve you well. go for the longer tube (f8) version if you can.

that said, I'd highly recommend buying any scope/gear used and then they are both (esp. the OO UK) even better value.

[russ]

Sorry, we are talking about Orion Optics, not Orion US......opps

[stampy10000]

Do you mean Orion US or Orion Optics?

[stampy10000]

Sorry, we are talking about Orion Optics, not Orion US......opps

In that case I agree with Moonshane, the base alone is worth the extra cash.

(Not biased at all!)

[johninderby]

It's a case of a custom built scope made in the UK vs a factory made mass produced scope made in the far east. The mass produced scope is always going to be cheaper, but the custom built scope allows you to have the scope built to your requirements, whether it be better optics, a different focuser etc. You don't have to settle for a standardised scope in a box.

Once you've used an OO CNC machined alloy base the chipboard bases that come with the mass produced scopes are a bit cheap and nasty in comparison.

Although having said all that I do think the mass produced dobs such as the SkyWatcher are amazing value for money and have good optics for the price. It's just that they're well......mass produced, and you have to settle for what they give you instead of being able to pick and choose just what you want on your dob. or don't want if that's the case.

John

[dweller25]

Gordyb, check this out ........

http://stargazerslounge.com/equipment-reviews/68085-orion-optics-v-skywatcher.html

[gordyb]

Orion Optics

[Earl]

Optically the deference is only as good as your eyepieces and viewing conditions.

In excellent conditions the Orion will be better, in usual viewing the difference will be harder to spot.

Base wise, I thing the Orion wins hands down on all other dob bases, and that alone carries the extra in the price.

[johninderby]

I'll admit I probably wouldn't buy an OO dob with standard optics as there's not that much of an advantage over the mass produced dobs except for the base. But I would definitely buy one with better optics.

With the Ultra Grade optics there are big advantages in lunar / planetary observing due to the increased contrast and the ability to take far higher magnifications. It's this ability to take higher magnifications that's one of the biggest benefits of the better optics. With the Hilux coatings It's equivalent to a larger aperture due to the greater light transmission and also the Hilux coatings have a 25 year+ life expectancy.

With my 14" OO with the Ultra Grade optics I frequently use 500x to 650x magnification.

John

[Ags]

With my 14" OO with the Ultra Grade optics I frequently use 500x to 650x magnification.

John

That is extremely high (although still within the 2x aperture rule, but then I've read you get diminishing magnification gain as you go up in aperture). The bit that really amazes me is the use of the word "frequently". Where are you observing from, John? Do you have exceptional atmospheric conditions?

[coffee_prince]

A better mount, but is that worth the almost double pricing?? A dob is supposed to offer good value for money as the mount is what money is saved on. I'm sure the OO is excellent, but if an 8 inch dob costs more than an 8 inch with EQ mount I'd probably go for the latter as you can buy those for much les than £500

[Nick P]

The OO version with Hilux is actually £659 with 1/6 wave PV mirror - which is an extra £160!

BUT you would then have a scope that would last an awfully long time 25+ years! this would be the equivalent of the life time of 3 or 4 skywatchers - depending on mirror life - also because of the improved PV and coatings performance of the OO 8"would be close to a 10" SW, in these terms the OO is quite an attractive proposition.

The choice is about the long term investment versus short term, where the Skywatchers really score is making decent apertures with good quality optics available to a mass market to 'try out' and see which size suits them best, which previously would have been prohibitively expensive - as borne out by the regularity 8, 10, and 12" scopes come onto the second hand market!

If this is your first decent scope the skywatcher offers unparralleled quality at that price point - but remember the mirrors will probably need recoating in 4 - 7 years. If you intend to keep thescope for a long time then the OO scope would be the one to go for even though it is twice the price!!

hope that helps a little, good luck with whatever option you go for

Best

Nick

[coffee_prince]

A good point, one that most new people probably don't know abonut (I know I didn't).

But in all honesty, how many people keep one telescope for 20 years? Seems to me half the fun is in buying nice bits n bobs for this hobby!

[Nick P]

A

But in all honesty, how many people keep one telescope for 20 years? Seems to me half the fun is in buying nice bits n bobs for this hobby!

And I think that is why the Skywatcher / Synta business model will work!

Although there will always be people prepared to pay for premium optics, I should think OO are working hard to find ways to maintain their market share!!

[johninderby]

I read on the OO Yahoo group that their order books are full and they're struggling to keep up with the demand for their high end scopes such the ODK etc. Apparently thay could sell a lot more scopes, but they are limited as to how fast they can expand as it takes a few years to train people for their optics lab.

John

[Nick P]

I hope it stays that way John, and we have a world renowned enduring successful British company.

I have to say though, I am hard pushed to think of another premium newtonian manufacturer?

[Moonshane]

I had an interesting series of emails with John at OO last week, discussing their 6" f11 dob and how I love it / ways they might consider improving it - I was treading very carefully of course as they were likely to tell me to sod off. John was interested in the feedback of a user of their scopes and took on board my comments, passing round the observations to his staff.

he also advised that they are working on new software and systems to improve workflow and meet deadlines more accurately.

it's this sort of thing that sets them apart from the mainstream I think, although some would argue that 'improvements' shouldn't be required to a top end scope. personally, I love improving things and doing them my way and this is why dobs are my all time favourite scopes.

[Nick P]

That's good to hear Shane, I would say that any company that stops 'improving' and listening to its customer base, even if it is for a top end product is on the slippery slope to disaster in the modern age!

[Moonshane]

too true Nick

you remind me has also confirmed they are considering details of a change in their range too.

[Whippy]

If this is your first decent scope the skywatcher offers unparralleled quality at that price point - but remember the mirrors will probably need recoating in 4 - 7 years.

I don't think that's quite true. The old Helios newtonians regularly come up for sale with their mirror coating intact and they must be within that age range if not older. I believe the old Revalation dobs on the other hand had coatings that don't last too well.

Tony..

[Moonshane]

I think in truth this question is like asking is it worth paying £270 for one pair of bins or £50 for another. the differences in price and features/quality begin to get finer as you get more fine in terms of quality and the time spent in improving beyond a certain point gets higher and higher. it's a personal choice as to whether or not it's worth it - I want to make the most out of any session and feel it is. if you can afford it it's worth it, if not then you can still have a fab time with much more reasonably priced gear and as has been said, for maybe £300 you can have a wonderful piece of kit.

on the coatings thing, the longevity of the coatings depends a lot on where you observe (eg salt water is bad!), how you pack up (leaving dew on coatings and then storing with the caps on before dry is bad!) and whether you damage them (dropping stuff on them and washing too much with poor methods is bad!).