21mm Ethos vs 31mm Nagler vs 41mm Panoptic

[Kef9]

Hi Guys

With the next Telescope House sale coming up soon I wanted to get some thoughts on the above eyepieces.

Essentially I need a low power eyepiece to complete my collection. I currently have a 5-8mm Speers Waler, 13mm ethos and a 2x 2" Powermate which completely covers the high and medium power range. I have a Celestron C100ED Refractor but sometime in the future will look to get a massive lightbucket.

Since starting this hobby my aim has been to save to get the best so that they last a lifetime.

I'm currently planning on getting the 21mm ethos in the August sale but I was wondering if the other eyepieces would supplement this, be a better buy instead or just be unused if say you got all 3?

Is owning all 3 a waste considering the small difference in the FOV or is it better to choose any 2 of the 3? Money isn't an issue but is the 41mm panoptic worth the extra when you can get a 40mm Skywatcher Panaview with the same 70 degree FOV for alot less?

Anyway guys let me know what you think!

[John]

What scope will they / it be used with ?

41mm can be too long a focal length with fast newtonians.

Personally I tend to go for the eyepiece that shows the widest area of sky at the highest magnification - that helps darken the background sky making faint DSO's easier to spot.

Of the 3 you list I could probably live with just the 21mm Ethos and accept a slightly smaller FoV in exchange for all the other wonderful characteristics that the Ethos brings.

[Kef9]

Well they will be used with my f9 (900mm focal length) C100ED refractor and in the future I'm looking at maybe a 16" lightbridge (f4.5) if I can afford it and when I get a shed in my back garden!

[Doc]

Well the 41mm in the 16" will give you a huge exit pupil so thats a big No No

[ollypenrice]

I can only describe the 31 Nagler versus the 35 Panoptic. For me the Panoptic was an easy winner, easier to use with no blackout or kidney bean issues. My then clubmates at WPAOG seemed to agree. (The 31 Nagler was a club item.) Since the Panoptic is also cheaper I would say that I'd recommend it over the Nagler on all counts. But as for the others you mention, I have no experience.

Olly

[Moonshane]

I have a 35mm Panoptic and have not used the others. I have also only used the Panoptic once (in the Dob) since I got it. I can confirm that it's a really wonderful eyepiece and scanning around Cygnus the other night was just breathtaking. Everything sharp and bright and I really can't wait until the nights darken again.

[Chris H]

Different scope (10" dob) but since I got my Ethos 17mm I find it is an excellent finder ep and I use it much more than my 28mm Nirvana. The large field of view combined with x70 magnification makes looking for faint DSO's quite a bit easier. So based on this I would vote for the 21 Ethos, yes the 31T5 will give you a bit more in terms of field of view but you've got a 13 Ethos you know what the Ethos range are like.

Slightly of topic but you might also consider the Ethos 8mm, when the sale comes round of course, it is an awsome ep and using it has enabled me to see a lot of DSO's in a whole new light.

[Macavity]

but you've got a 13 Ethos you know what the Ethos range are like.

Yes, I would have thought that might point the way - From a position of no personal experience!

But I was comparing the 21mm Ethos spec with the approx. true field equivalent: 26mm Nagler and 35mm Pan. The issue not explicitly highlighted yet being their respective eye relief...

[Chris H]

The entire Ethos line has 15mm eye relief if you can live with it on the 13mm then you can probably live with it on all of them.

[Kef9]

Hi Guys thanks for the responses.

From what you guys are saying it seems like the ethos is the way to go. Not one have you have said the Nagler which is interesting.

I like the idea of the panoptic because it gives you the biggest field stop possible but as Doc pointed out, on a big dob this will give a large exit pupil. I had a play and actually found out that for a 16" lightbridge this would be 9.1mm. What does this actually mean in practice when looking through the eyepiece? Can you just not see all the image? However I bet that the image looks great through the refractor and smaller dobs.

By the way believe it or not I sometimes experience kidney beaning on my 13mm ethos so on this basis would you say that the 31mm nagler is a no no because this eyepiece definitely has issues with this?

[Kef9]

Slightly of topic but you might also consider the Ethos 8mm, when the sale comes round of course, it is an awsome ep and using it has enabled me to see a lot of DSO's in a whole new light.

My speers waler and my 6.5mm (powermated 13mm) ethos covers this range so I feel it would be a waste really.

My plan is to have 3 eyepieces (maybe 4) plus the powermate to cover all the bases. Just the low power left, hence this thread.

[GazOC]

A too large exit pupil means you could be viewing objects at a higher magnification while retaining the same brightness and darkening the background sky.

[Moonshane]

I think too large an exit pupil may also mean that with a reflector you will see the secondary as a black hole in the middle of the image?

[GazOC]

I think too large an exit pupil may also mean that with a reflector you will see the secondary as a black hole in the middle of the image?

Yep, and even if its not as pronounced as a black hole it's still noticable spread across the field of view as a lack of contrast.

[Macavity]

I sense any eyepiece with a field stop between 30 & 35mm will function in most scopes. If you try to exploit the extremes of 2" aperture, then things get a bit more specialist? The only critique I see re. Mr. Nagler's offerings is the trade-off between maximising field and sundry (e.g. pincushion?) distortions. Sweeping wide fields (with a Pan35) has supposedly made some observers feel slightly "seasick"? But, in the circumstances, I could probably develop sufficient sea-legs?

Given my limited experience, and limited funds, I might yet look towards a 17mm Ethos. I think it might be a great "does all" eyepiece. I am intrigued by the notion that one can "move back a bit" and still get ~70 deg with the Ethos? But the prospect of dropping an Ethos 21mm seems far too mortifying to contemplate.

[John]

...From what you guys are saying it seems like the ethos is the way to go. Not one have you have said the Nagler which is interesting.

By the way believe it or not I sometimes experience kidney beaning on my 13mm ethos so on this basis would you say that the 31mm nagler is a no no because this eyepiece definitely has issues with this?

The Nagler 31mm is a fantastic eyepiece (I love mine ) and offers a wider true field than the Ethos 21. I've not experienced kidney beaning or other issues with mine and it cost me less than 1/3 as much as the Ethos 21.

Your original question was whether owning all 3 was worthwhile - IMHO it's not and, if I had to pick one to live with, I'd go for the Ethos 21. But I'm not about to sell my Nagler 31mm and 20mm Type 5's to get one

[Chris H]

My speers waler and my 6.5mm (powermated 13mm) ethos covers this range so I feel it would be a waste really.

My plan is to have 3 eyepieces (maybe 4) plus the powermate to cover all the bases. Just the low power left, hence this thread.

Fair enough just thought I'd mention it, an ep collection of entirely Ethos' would give me a warm feeling in my heart. Just don't ever look through the Ethos 8 or 6mm or there may be no going back.

[Kef9]

Seems like the ethos 21mm then. In addition a skywatcher 38mm panaview costs only £85 from FLO so I could always get one of those for really low power instead of the panoptic. The FOV is 70 degrees also which is slighly larger than the 68 degrees offered by the panoptic. Finally they look cool which is silly I know but they do.

Regarding having an eyepiece collection solely consisting of ethos - yes I would but the speer waler zoom is so good I would rather have that than either the 6mm or 8mm ethos. They would never get used.

I know this because when I want high power I have the option of using the powermated ethos at 6.5mm. However I always pull out the speers instead with its 89 degree FOV and adjustable range. Everyone should own one.

[Marmite]

Yes, I agree, definitely get the Pentax XW...

[Kef9]

LOL!

A 40mm Pentax I imagine would be brilliant. I would love to look through this line of eyepieces.

[Kef9]

Well I did it and got a 31mm Nagler which will be on its way soon.

The only question now is whether to ahead and get the ethos in the telescope house sale?????

Is this overkill?

Ummmmmm

[Mark at Beaufort]

I think sometimes we buy too many EPs. Now that you have the 31mm Nagler I don't believe you really need a 21mm Ethos even though its a wonderful EP. Because you have the 13mm Ethos I don't think you need another EP. You have a collection of EPs to cover a good range from high to wide field magnification.

Mark

[John]

I think sometimes we buy too many EPs. Now that you have the 31mm Nagler I don't believe you really need a 21mm Ethos even though its a wonderful EP. Because you have the 13mm Ethos I don't think you need another EP. You have a collection of EPs to cover a good range from high to wide field magnification.

Mark

I agree with Mark here. I have a Nagler 31mm and a Nagler 20mm but very often I find myself skipping straight from the 31 to the 13mm Ethos.

However your opening post said that money isn't an issue so I guess you could get the 21mm Ethos as well then sell the eyepiece you find you are not using so much.

[Rossco72]

Missed this thread but just want to say, I love my 41mm Panoptic!!

[Kef9]

Hi Rossco

How come you got rid of the 28 UWAN may I ask. I bet you have a big hole in your impressive eyepiece case now unless you have filled it with something else

Also can I just ask what your thoughts are regarding this topic. Do you think the 21mm ethos would be a wasted purchase or is the gap between a 31mm nagler and 13mm ethos too large?