Trapezium E & F

[Mark at Beaufort]

Well done Paulo on seeing star E. I tried again last night but this time used my Astro Tech ED 4" frac with the 8mm Televue Ethos and an APO 2x barlow which gives a mag of 178x. So the quality of the scope and EP are there but I could not detect either star.

I will have another go but it looks like it needs the 10" - well for me anyway!!

Mark

[Mike_F]

I had a try at this last night, with my 8" Newt - with no success. A, B, C, & D all clearly visible - but no E or F. Granted, the seeing was pretty poor and it was nearly a full moon, but there were moments of good clarity.

To check my optics, I switched over to Polaris. I was able to split it easily, with the companion just visible @ 50x, clearly separated @ 100x, and "miles" apart at 200x.

However, I did notice that at 200x Polaris did indeed look a little "hairy" as someone else has mentioned. Is this likely to be collimation or seeing?

Are Trapezium E&F much harder targets to split than Polaris?

[John]

Are Trapezium E&F much harder targets to split than Polaris?

Yes - the E & F stars ar much fainter and closer to their brighter companions than with Polaris.

Try Rigel and Sigma Orionis (just below the lowest star in the belt) to test your collimation and the seeing - if you can see Rigel's companion and the mag 9 componant of Sigma then you are in with a chance with the E & F Trapezium stars.

[Towa]

Very good seeing conditions for me last night. Using a 102mm APO at 109X, star E was constant and clear while Star F was not so

constant but was seen for good periods of time lasting around 20 seconds.

[Sam]

I saw the E star two nights ago in my 16". I spent ages collimating the scope and it paid off as the stars were pin sharp and the E star stood out very brightly - I couldn't see the F star except with averted vision. It certainly helps with Orion being quite high in the sky down here.

[russ]

I tried with the 8" SCT just after Christmas but had no success with either star. I put it down to seeing. Collimation was certainly good and the scope was cooled.

In the past i've seen them clearly in a 6" Mak on a number of occasions, 8" dob and with good seeing they were very apparent in the 12.5" dob. Will try again with the SCT on the next clear night.

Russ

[wulfrunian]

Never tried for these before, but I had a spare hour last night on a clear sky, for the first time for ages, so got out for some viewing. First view of M42 for a long while, didn't really expect to see much with the full moon out, but I could actually see more than I thought I would. With an OIII filter, it showed quite a bit of detail, and looked a bit greenish too.

Going up to x171 and scanning the Trapezium, there were stars E and F as clear as anything E easier than F, looked farther away from its nearest trapezium star. Now, I've read on this thread that seeing these stars is a good test of collimation and seeing - but when I tried to split the close double star which is the far right star of Orion's belt, I couldn't get focus very well, so I'm not sure!

Also a nice view of sigma Orionis, I picked this one from "Turn Left at Orion", not seen it before, and there were four stars looking good. Just wished I had longer, but had to drag myself to bed before a long day at work today, oh well!

[waccoo]

I have seen the E and F stars several times through my 10" Newt. The conditions have to be just right indeed.

At a recent star party in Florida, a friend of mine got a GREAT view of E and F through his 12.5 dob, but, I couldn't see them through my scope. I am either: having collimation issues, or, more likely, my eyes are shot. The sky was stable, but, it wasn't that dark. I think stability is more important than darkness for this type of observing.

Seeing 'the PUP', Sirius' companion that is, should also be doable in a 10", but, again, air stability is very important.

[John]

I have seen the E and F stars several times through my 10" Newt. The conditions have to be just right indeed.

At a recent star party in Florida, a friend of mine got a GREAT view of E and F through his 12.5 dob, but, I couldn't see them through my scope. I am either: having collimation issues, or, more likely, my eyes are shot. The sky was stable, but, it wasn't that dark. I think stability is more important than darkness for this type of observing.

Seeing 'the PUP', Sirius' companion that is, should also be doable in a 10", but, again, air stability is very important.

I find, as well as seeing conditions and collimation, finding the "right" magnification is critical as well - not too much and not too little. I'd love to see "the Pup" as well but thats a huge challenge - I guess an occulting device of some sort might help if it could mask most of Sirius A's glare.

Nice to see another WDW fan by the way - we love it there and are having our 6th vacation there in early July this year - it will be hot and busy I know but I still can't wait

[lunator]

Seeing the 'Pup' is a nightmare from the UK.

I hope to see it one day but I think it going to take an astro-holiday to achieve

Cheers

Ian

[albedo0.39]

I have seen "E" and "F" from Kelling and it was only when I collimated using mirror coma to "tweak" the final star test that "F" leapt out.

Ordinarily, they are not too appearent in my 16"...(seeing is poor 9times out of 10)

[Talitha]

Yippee! On Friday night (5 March) i was able to get the E star with the 120ST at 168x. It was consistently there with averted vision, thanks to better than average seeing. I tried to get the F component too, but methinks it'a a bit much, being so close to C.... maybe some day, though. In any case, i'm a happy camper.

[NV6R]

I know that this is an old thread. However, I thought that I would chime in with my $0.02 worth. I am blessed with some of the darkest skies in the United States: My backyard (5 miles out of Ely, Nevada) is a little better than Bortle class 3, with a limiting magnitude of close to 7 on any given night, and better on others. Now, my normal observing location is Great Basin National park, at 10,000 above sea level. This is a Bortle class 1, with 8th magnitude skies the norm. On top of all of this, the steadiness is some of the best, as well; the humidity is rarely above 15%, no wind, and an average of 290 cloudless days a year!

With that being said, I can see the E and F stars of the Trapezium on any night using my little 8" dob. Even my 114mm reflector with start to hint at the E star. You can tell something is there, but because of the limiting of the resolution of the little 4.5", it won't quite make the split. I am going to be picking up a 12" Orion in a couple month, so I cannot wait.

If any of you live in the west (or close to it), you need to do yourself a favor and visit east central Nevada. How many places have you been where you can see the part of the Veil Nebula that goes through 52 Cygnus (NGC6960) where you can actually see the structure? Oh, and by the way, that is with my 8" dob without a filter. When I use my O-III filter, I am simple blown away!

This is just to demonstrate that dark skies and steady seeing make all the difference. Oh, and to the person in New Zealand: you suck, lol. Being in the southern hemisphere makes me envious, in many regards. True, you guys miss out on some of the objects close to the north celestial pole. However, you have better views of objects south of, and, close to the ecliptic. Plus, you have the Magellanic clouds; and this is why I very jealous.

May your skies be clear and your apertures be big,

John, in the dark skies of Nevada

[Moonshane]

ha ha ha great post John.

If this doesn't sum up the fact that there's always some one to be jealous of then I don't know what does.

All this says to me in my heavily light and atmosphere polluted skies of northern England (Manchester) is just get on with it and enjoy the things you see and the time you have.

ps on nights of good seeing I can see both E and F with my 12" dob.

[John]

It must be great to be able to observe under such wonderful skies John

I've managed E & F with a 5" refractor and E with a 4" from my back garden here moderately light polluted SW UK. Our house is 300 feet above sea level so we can't compete with 10,000 feet !.

One of my challenges this Autumn / Winter will be to try and spot E & F with the 4"

[narrowbandpaul]

John....Im jealous.

It sounds like a really good location!

If you were going to holiday there, how would you do it? Where would you stay, nd how easy is the drive up to the 10,000ft site?

it sounds great for imaging there, as the transparency and seeing must be very good being above the inversion layer and the thicker part of the atmosphere...

the only problem is taking equipment (scope/mount/camera) out there.....

[Dalglish]

Gents

Theoretical question with perhaps a practical conclusion.

Would I be better able to locate E and F through 1) a Lightbridge 16'', 2) an Intelliscope 14'' or 3) a LX200ACF?

It's an equipment question by the backdoor, I know.

Dalglish

[Dalglish]

Apologies, the ACF is a 10 inch.

[Sam]

Dalgish,

I have seen them in my 16" Lightbridge. I can't compare the other two though as I haven't used them. I think though that the larger light gathering capability of the bigger mirror (if well collimated) would make a difference.

[NV6R]

John....Im jealous.

It sounds like a really good location!

If you were going to holiday there, how would you do it? Where would you stay, nd how easy is the drive up to the 10,000ft site?

it sounds great for imaging there, as the transparency and seeing must be very good being above the inversion layer and the thicker part of the atmosphere...

the only problem is taking equipment (scope/mount/camera) out there.....

The good part about my observing location, is that it is all paved roads! The turned it into a National park, so with the addition of paved roads, it also has modern amenities! It is very remote here, but there are quite a few places to stay. Ely, Nevada (close to where I live, and 70 miles from my dark sky site), for example, has 12 motel/hotels. Not bad for a village that only has 3500 people! Plus, there is a little motel 20 miles from my observing location.

This area is the most remote location is the lower 48 states, however, it has an economy that is very dependent on tourism. As a result, it is setup for it. The cost is surprising low to stay here, too. Heck, Stephen King has a house close by because of the solitude. By the way, Stephen King's book "Desperation" (and movie of the same name) is based on the small village (population of 500) of Ruth, Nevada, which is where I reside. Oh, btw, my backyard is 7100' above sea level.

Yes, getting astrophotography equipment would be a pain to bring from another country, but if you caught the conditions when they were at their best... oh man, you would never forget it!

There is going to be a massive star party at Great Basin National park August 6th-8th. So many people have found out about this area for astronomy, and now the flood-gates are opening. You cannot image what it is like to view M51 through a 30" Obsession, while under 7.5m skies; I did just this last year!

Are the skies always this good, no, sometimes they are only around 7m, . It is easy to take this for granted, and then you realize, hey, you are in an astronomer's Nirvana. I feel very fortunate to live here. However, in the next couple years I am going to be moving to Salt Lake City, Utah, which will mean a 200 mile (one way) drive to get to a site this dark. Oh, well, it will be worth it.

I am going to be a Social Worker, so I am going to put those skills to use: over the next couple years, I plan to start a non-profit organization that will be the basis for a community-outreach program to teach astronomy and HAM radio (yes, I am also a HAM radio operator) to children 6-18. So even though I am moving to Salt Lake City, I still plan to spend a lot of time in Nevada.

John

[Dalglish]

Thanks alot Lightbucket