Pentax v Nagler

[Doc]

As some of you know I've been thinking about quality eyepieces and thought I had it sussed and was going for a collection of naglers.

But last Friday I had a chance to try a 20mm Pentax XW in a friends 12" Dob and I was blown away. His scope is a F5 but there was hardly a hint of coma and the contrast was wonderful.

I know its 70 degree fov compared to 82 or even 100 degrees but believe me it felt larger then 70 degrees.

So my question guys

Pentax v Nagler what would you do.

[FLO]

I had a chance to try a 20mm Pentax XW in a friends 12" Dob and I was blown away.

Pentax eyepieces do have that affect, they are addictive too

It is such a pity that their marketing is so poor, it is practically non-existent! Televue's marketing on the other hand is exceptional! Very American and very effective.

[John]

In my case I've gone Nagler / Ethos as I find the extra wide field helps tracking so much. In terms of outright performance I don't believe there is any significant difference between the brands - I got to try a couple of Pentax XW's at SGL4 and they were very nice indeed - as are Naglers and the Ethos.

I think many would rate a combination of Naglers / Ethos for low - medium powers and Pentax for higher powers as the perfect set, if there is such a thing.

John

[tom.yates]

Pentax everytime the sharpness and contrast of these eyepieces are second to none and 70 deg is perfect for most people they are in my opinion the best allround eyepiece in the world today I have owned loads of diffrent eyepieces Naglers,Vixen LVW'S,pan's,Meade uwa's looked through and owned diffrent apo's,top class newts, sct's /maks and they perform in every class of scope they are truly a world class performer

[Doc]

Pentax eyepieces do have that affect, they are addictive too

It is such a pity that their marketing is so poor, it is practically non-existent! Televue's marketing on the other hand is exceptional! Very American and very effective.

If you had a choice Steve Pentax or Nagler.

Also are the pentax eyepieces included in the SGL discount scheme.

[Marmite]

Pentax all the way! I Had Naglers, but sold them to fund my Pentax EPs. One of the biggest reasons for me buying Pentax was the colour neutrality. The yellowish tone of Naglers became annoying to me. I also like the ER of Pentax EPs.

[brianb]

It is such a pity that their marketing is so poor, it is practically non-existent!

And has been for a while. They were probably trying to justify a management decision to "consolidate their operations" i.e. drop their entire line of scopes, binoculars & accessories for such to concentrate on photgraphic kit.

[Starobserver]

Hi Doc,

I got a combination of Pentax and Naglers, and with me it has al to do with eye-relief (wearing glasses when observing) I have been using this set for about two years now, and I can tell you, both the Pentax as the Naglers I got are outstanding in my f 5.3 telescope 300mm dobson. But some of them, specially the 22 mm nagler, I read in some review, would not be that well corrected for a faster (f/4) telescope. You can have a look at an article I wrote in my blog explaining why I choose my set of eyepieces.

But as I said, I choose them for eye-relief, and I don't see any real differences in quality between the naglers and the Pentax eyepieces. And my favorite eyepiece with my dob is a 35mm Panoptic!

Anyway, here's the link to my article:

Clear Skies On Demand - an astronomy blog

[Starobserver]

Hi,

I use a set of naglers and pentax eyepieces with my f 5.3 12-inch dobson, and they are just great. Eyerelief and high quality were the main reason for my set of eyepieces. The Pentaxes are just as good as the Naglers, and my favorite eyepiece is a 35mm Panoptic! Anyway,

I wrote an article in my blog about the Naglers and Pentaxes. Maybe this helps. Follow this link to read the article:

Clear Skies On Demand - an astronomy blog

[coliea]

What's the story with the Pentax XW prices Steve? They seem to fluctuate more than most. Last month they were £259 (I believe they were cheaper earlier in the year) and now they're back down to £243.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining if they're getting less expensive just curious as they seem to be a bit up and down.

Col

[FLO]

If you had a choice Steve Pentax or Nagler.

I am a huge fan of Pentax eyepieces. All things considered I don't think better eyepieces exist. For me they are the benchmark. That probably sounds like a dealer simply pushing what they stock but those who have been on SGL long enough to remember me prior to FLO will know different.

I have owned TeleVue eyepieces and consider them to be very good indeed, in some instances as good as Pentax. FLO might even become a TeleVue stockist (Pentax don't manufacture ultra-wides).

In truth, there is no wrong choice when choosing between Pentax and Televue.

HTH

What's the story with the Pentax XW prices Steve? They seem to fluctuate more than most.

I did a price-check last night, found someone cheaper so reset FLO's price to match. When you see any of FLO's prices fluctuate it will almost certainly be as a result of a recent price-check.

[johninderby]

I agree with Steve, if you buy either Penatx or Televue you can't go wrong. As to preferring the warmer tone of the Nagler or the more neutral Pentax it's probably split 50:50 between users. Some can't stand the warmer tone while some prefer it, personally I'm not bothered either way.

Lately my favourite lunar/planetary eyepiece has been my 6mm Ethos, noticeably sharper and more contrasty than a Nagler, and also for those who are bothered about it, colour neutral as well. The only downside I suppose is that you could just about buy two of the Pentax for the price of one Ethos.

John

[coliea]

The only downside I suppose is that you could just about buy two of the Pentax for the price of one Ethos.

John

That's probably the only downside for most of us John. I had the choice and went down the 2x Pentax route as opposed to the x1 Ethos. Personally the 14mm + 7mm XW made more sense than the 13E.

Now, if I could have afforded the 13E PLUS the 8E.... I'd have probably bought more XWs instead

[mcrossley]

I have a set of Naglers, I love them but I'd swap them for a set of Pentax anyday. I like the eye relief on the Pentax, and the adjustable eyecups.

The Ethos is another beast, I just love it in a refractor for wide field views, maybe I'd swap them for a set of Pentax and a 13mm Ethos

Mark

PS: I don't own an Ethos, just had a chance to use one.

[James]

In truth, there is no wrong choice when choosing between Pentax and Televue.

I couldn't agree more. I own both but personally prefer the Pentax eyepieces, at least that's where I've put my money but if my Pentax collection disappeared tomorrow and was replaced by Tele Vue eyepieces I think I could gradually learn how to cope

With this kind of choice there really is no substitute for trying out each in your scope - if you have the chance?

James

[Astrodev]

I go for the middle ground as I have both Pentax and Nagler eyepieces, I personally prefer the older Naglers (Type 2) and the newer ones at shorter focal lengths <10mm, however the Naglers can be a bit contrasty and clinical wheras the Pentax's provide a nice comfortable view despite the narrower field.

It was all summed up a few years back when a group of us tried a blind test with a range of eyepeices (Nagler, Pentax and Tak) using an FSQ106, with a result that everyone placed the Tak LE's at the bottom with roughly an equal split on the Nagler's and Pentax's, the overall conclusion was that at this level it all comes down to personal preference.

John

[ollypenrice]

A lone voice here it seems. Nagler! (maybe not the very big ones which have blackout effects.) I find somethng a tad off with Pentax for my eyes. The edges of objects are a touch 'hard' and - you're not going to like this - I seem to get a bit of colour.

Maybe its just me. I love TeleVue eyepieces and cannot imagine anything being better than an Ethos. But if anyone is handing out Pentaxes...

Olly.

[John]

A lone voice here it seems. Nagler! (maybe not the very big ones which have blackout effects.) I find somethng a tad off with Pentax for my eyes. The edges of objects are a touch 'hard' and - you're not going to like this - I seem to get a bit of colour.

Maybe its just me. I love TeleVue eyepieces and cannot imagine anything being better than an Ethos. But if anyone is handing out Pentaxes...

Olly.

Not entirely a lone voice Olly

I do feel though that some of the Naglers take a bit of getting used to and can appreciate that a Pentax, with it's more generous eyerelief and slightly more modest field of view could feel more comfortable straight away.

John

[Doc]

Well John hopefully after I've tried a few different ones at salisbury I will finally commit myself to one or the other.

It's just this 20mm Pentax I tried, as you said felt great straight away. Eye relief was spot on and I didn't have to move my eyeball around to see the complete field.

I looked at the Bodes galaxies and the contrast was the best I've seen, so much better then the Hyperions.

[coliea]

Now, if I could have afforded the 13E PLUS the 8E.... I'd have probably bought more XWs instead

Joking aside, I've got the medium to high power currently covered for my f/7 refractor with the 14, 10 & 7XWs + 2.5x PM giving me mags of 51, 71, 101, 127, 178 & 254.

Where I am seriously lacking however is at the low power, widefield end. I was about to purchase a 30mm Aero ED (mainly due to cost, as that was all the budget would allow) but before I put in the order my finances took an unexpected turn for the better so now I'm looking at something premium around the 20mm mark as a logical 1.4x step from my 14mm.

I'm considering the 20T5 Nagler as it seems to be regarded as one of the stars of the Nagler line. It would give me a 2.2 deg TFoV in my scope at x36 and I'm wondering if I really need to go any wider, especially in my suburban skies?

Or should I save some cash, stick with Pentax, get the 20XW and the benefit of another 1.25" EP at the expense of a reduced FoV (1.9 deg)?

I'm not a member of a club so I don't have the opportunity to try before I buy, and consequently I tend to analyse these decisions to death as £200-£300 eyepiece "mistake" would be painful.

I know, I know, another "what should I do" query.. but I'd be interested to hear your opinions.

Cheers folks,

Col

[Doc]

As you already have a Pentax line up I would keep up the tradition and buy the 20mm xw.

There's nothing better then a complete set of your favourite brand.

I looked through the 20mm XW llast friday and it was awesome.

[Rusty Strings]

I'm labouring on this question myself, I have a 5XW and I'm really pleased with it, but not having the opportunity to try befpre I buy, I'm trying to decide on what to get to cover the medium - low range, I've decided it's either Pentax or Televue, but never having tried a nagler/ethos and being so happy with my 5XW I'm inclined to expand with Pentax's.

John

[coliea]

As you already have a Pentax line up I would keep up the tradition and buy the 20mm xw.

There's nothing better then a complete set of your favourite brand.

Yeah Doc, I know there are those who like to complete a set but to be honest that doesn't really bother me. I would be just as happy with the 20T5, 14XW, 10XW, 7XW collection.

Never having had the opportunity to view through Naglers apart from the 3-6 zoom leaves me feeling I'm missing out on something. As the 20Nag seems to be rated universally highly I thought this may be a good chance to pick one up.

[John]

As it happens a thread on just this topic has kicked off in the Eyepieces forum at Cloudynights and, in the usual CN style, has got rather overheated in parts. There was one post that stood out to me as intelligent and helpful from a CN member called Bic Parker - I've copied it here (hope thats OK):

"It isn't the differences between the eyepieces that are huge, it is that our personal preferences are huge over minor differences.

They are all very, very good eyepieces that bring to bear some of the best optical designs and consistent quality of build in the industry. This is like arguing the differences between two different mint condition Steinway pianos. They are both really fine instruments, but will always have some subtle differences.

The differences being discussed are minor in the grand scheme of things. But those minor differences cater to individual preferences. And some preferences can be strongly overriding. So obviously some will prefer one over the other, and possibly in a big way.

I think the most constructive discussion (which many have done here) is not whether one is better than the other, but what are these qualitative differences. This is especially important for the novice observer because it gives them some qualitative items to discriminate for themselves in the eyepiece that they might not otherwise know about unless someone describes it."

That seems to make a lot of sense to me.

John

[MartinB]

I have a Pentax 7mm XL, a 10mm XW and a 17mm Nagler. All 3 allow me to just get on and observe. I mainly use them with a 300mm Skyliner Dob. The 7mm XL was a fantastic buy second hand for the money and it feels very similar to the much more expensive XW. They are very comfortable to use. The Nagler is a bit more fussy on eye position but all the Naglers are a bit different in this respect.

The Pentaxes do warm the colour a little compared with my Baader orthoscopics but it isn't an issue for me.