Why I want a small APO..

[Elp]

52 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

It's only 60mm, but, I think mm for mm it has the best optics of any scope I've looked through.

I have a similar view of my Z61. Jupiter is tiny in it, but boy is it sharp.

[PeterC65]

I have the TS-Optics Photoline 72 which is the f/6 FPL53 Apo that you mention. I bought it as a widefield companion to my Skymax 127 and now use it for visual and EAA widefield. I like it a lot, and find it great for widefield, particularly when used with the StellaLyra UFF 30mm eyepiece. It's good for higher magnification too and I use it with a Baader Zoom as a very portable setup. It's well built and seems good optically, although I don't have another refractor to compare it with (other than an Askar FMA135 which isn't a fair comparison and I only use for EAA). I bought the Photoline 72 brand new from Astroshop.eu in December 2021 without incident and have had some good support from TS-Optics when I needed to adjust the focuser.

[GoldTop57]

2 hours ago, Emperor!Takahashi! said:

Brand new, with clamshell for less than £600. https://www.kyoei-osaka.jp/SHOP/list.cgi (just search for "FS-60CB" and various options come up). You'll pay shipping and VAT, though.

And the people clamoured, "Thank you, Emperor Takahashi, for gracing us with your infinite wisdom!"

And import duty which I think was 4.5 % for the UK, plus a fee to the shipping company to clear customs.

[Emperor!Takahashi!]

7 minutes ago, GoldTop57 said:

And import duty which I think was 4.5 % for the UK, plus a fee to the shipping company to clear customs.

A minor tribute to the gods of Japanese optics.

[Second Time Around]

I'm purely visual and can wholeheartedly recommend the Altair 72EDF, which is the deluxe version of their standard model with extra features.  The objectives are also hand-picked and guaranteed to have a Stehl of 0.95 or better.

The only mod I've done is to add a longer Vixen dovetail bar for better balance.  I needed this as mine is an earlier model with a shorter main tube.  The advantage though is that it has the flexibility of more infocus with 97mm of focuser travel  rather than the 75mm with the current model.

The reasons I chose a 72mm f/6 are

1) Highly portable

2) Compact for travelling, especially with sliding dewshield

3) Fast cool down

4) Wide field

5) About the longest focal length to show full solar disk + proms with a Quark

Edited June 19 by Second Time Around
Added I'm purely visual

[Bluemoonjim]

I also have a TS Optics Photoline 72 which I purchased from Teleskop Express via their website. I use it mainly with the dedicated TS Optics 0.8 reducer/flattener and my Altair 269c osc camera and I'm very happy with the results. The 'scope is excellent and the service from TE first class.
Would highly recommend both (FWIW) 

As Vlaiv pointed out this particular scope is is covered by a few different brands.

[John]

Around a year back I picked up a nice pre-owned Altair ED 70 F/6. It's one of the "entry level" ED doublets but I've been quite impressed with it's optical performance for visual use (I don't image). It's small and light (around 30cm long in it's shortest form) and weighs 2.2kg. With the case and other bits it came with I think it was a good deal for around £200.

There is a touch of CA around the lunar limb, bright planets and brightest stars but the optical figure of the objective seems good and the scope has split double stars down to close to the max resolution for the aperture.

It may well be the least exotic of the ones being discussed here but for it's cost I'm quite happy with it 🙂

Being able to carry scope + mount + tripod out with one hand and practically no cool down time doesn't half help get a few more observing chances with the dodgy and changeable UK weather we have had over the past months 😉

[GrumpiusMaximus]

10 minutes ago, John said:

Around a year back I picked up a nice pre-owned Altair ED 70 F/6. It's one of the "entry level" ED doublets but I've been quite impressed with it's optical performance for visual use (I don't image). It's small and light (around 30cm long in it's shortest form) and weighs 2.2kg. With the case and other bits it came with I think it was a good deal for around £200.

There is a touch of CA around the lunar limb, bright planets and brightest stars but the optical figure of the objective seems good and the scope has split double stars down to close to the max resolution for the aperture.

It may well be the least exotic of the ones being discussed here but for it's cost I'm quite happy with it 🙂

Being able to carry scope + mount + tripod out with one hand and practically no cool down time doesn't half help get a few more observing chances with the dodgy and changeable UK weather we have had over the past months 😉

I absolutely and wholeheartedly second this.  I also have an Altair 70ED.  It's an excellent little scope and mine was a similar price.  I don't know enough about observing double stars but I've had great views of Andromeda, M81/M82 and M13 through it amongst other objects.  It's on a decent tripod and lives by my (outdoor) office door.  Of an evening, I just grab the whole setup with one hand I'm ready to go in about 20 seconds.

Being able to grab a quality little telescope and have it set up so quickly means I observe far more than I would with something bigger.  There's absolutely nothing at stake if it clouds over, so I see more with a smaller scope than I would with a larger one.

EDIT: I did purchase a longer Vixen bar, as with the standard foot it wouldn't balance properly but that was a nominal cost.

Edited June 18 by GrumpiusMaximus

[Coco]

10 hours ago, John said:

Around a year back I picked up a nice pre-owned Altair ED 70 F/6. It's one of the "entry level" ED doublets but I've been quite impressed with it's optical performance for visual use (I don't image). It's small and light (around 30cm long in it's shortest form) and weighs 2.2kg. With the case and other bits it came with I think it was a good deal for around £200.

There is a touch of CA around the lunar limb, bright planets and brightest stars but the optical figure of the objective seems good and the scope has split double stars down to close to the max resolution for the aperture.

It may well be the least exotic of the ones being discussed here but for it's cost I'm quite happy with it 🙂

Being able to carry scope + mount + tripod out with one hand and practically no cool down time doesn't half help get a few more observing chances with the dodgy and changeable UK weather we have had over the past months 😉

Exactly !!    Even 20 minutes twice a week please 🙏

[SwiMatt]

I'm in a quite similar pickle, after a thread I had opened a few months ago (where there are plenty of suggestions, basically all those you have), and I basically narrowed it down to the same models that you mention, with the caveat that I'm trying to stay on the lower side of things - that excludes 80mm and 72mm that don't have a retractable shield like the SkyWatcher ED72. If you're willing to go this low in aperture, in my shortlist there is also the SkyWatcher Evolux 62ED. Little caveat: for me portability is king - especially as I'm hoping to fly with this thing when I go on travels for work, so in a final decision size and weight will be very important.

It's obvious that the more I hear about it, the more I'm tempted to wait and put some money away for the Takahashi FS-60CB, but this is a whole other discussion

[fireballxl5]

51 minutes ago, SwiMatt said:

I'm tempted to wait and put some money away for the Takahashi FS-60CB

well back in early 2015 there were fewer options for a small 'APO' class refractor and so I fell to temptation and bought the FS60CB for an upcoming trip to Mount Teide. My main use was for imaging and so I purchased the flattener with the scope, closely followed by the x0.72 reducer for a second trip up the mountain later that year. Over time I also acquired the extender for a solar eclipse trip to the US. I've used it visually and it gives excellent views, at least comparable with other top quality scopes in this class. The key factor is that it is extremely portable for airline travel.

HTH and CS, Andy

Antares region, Tak FS60CB @ f4.2. Mount Teide Aug 2015

Solar Eclipse, Tak FS60CB @ f10, Grand Tetons Aug 2017

[Coco]

1 hour ago, SwiMatt said:

I'm in a quite similar pickle, after a thread I had opened a few months ago (where there are plenty of suggestions, basically all those you have), and I basically narrowed it down to the same models that you mention, with the caveat that I'm trying to stay on the lower side of things - that excludes 80mm and 72mm that don't have a retractable shield like the SkyWatcher ED72. If you're willing to go this low in aperture, in my shortlist there is also the SkyWatcher Evolux 62ED. Little caveat: for me portability is king - especially as I'm hoping to fly with this thing when I go on travels for work, so in a final decision size and weight will be very important.

It's obvious that the more I hear about it, the more I'm tempted to wait and put some money away for the Takahashi FS-60CB, but this is a whole other discussion

https://www.kyoei-osaka.jp/SHOP/takahashi-fs60q-80qs.html

Its kind of fills all my requirements on a camera tripod and fluid head, longer mode f/10 for my Skytee Goto creation.. It'll be interesting to see how it performs against my optically excellent Vixen 90M (Japan) , it'll probably wipe the floor with it 😂

[Emperor!Takahashi!]

@Paz has a highly relevant thread here: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/423128-working-out-my-best-home-grab-and-go-set-up/

[Emperor!Takahashi!]

4 minutes ago, Coco said:

https://www.kyoei-osaka.jp/SHOP/takahashi-fs60q-80qs.html

Its kind of fills all my requirements on a camera tripod and fluid head, longer mode f/10 for my Skytee Goto creation.. It'll be interesting to see how it performs against my optically excellent Vixen 90M (Japan) , it'll probably wipe the floor with it 😂

I've owned: FS-60Q/FS-60CB, FOA-60Q/FOA-60, and FC-60. All of the 60mm Taks are great little scopes. But they'll perform to the level of outstanding 60mm scopes, which wouldn't imply wiping the floor with a quality 90mm scope. The 90mm will always offer brighter views of diffuse DSOs, more planetary detail, and more resolution for splitting tighter doubles. But the 60mm will be more compact and will still provide endless beautiful views. I doubt I'd be too upset if I had to only use a fine 60mm Tak for the rest of my life (but I'm unusual in this regard).

A 60mm Tak is a lovely thing, I think. But I'd hate for yours to arrive and cause disappointment when the 90mm that you own shows more.

[Roy Challen]

2 minutes ago, Emperor!Takahashi! said:

I've owned: FS-60Q/FS-60CB, FOA-60Q/FOA-60, and FC-60. All of the 60mm Taks are great little scopes. But they'll perform to the level of outstanding 60mm scopes, which wouldn't imply wiping the floor with a quality 90mm scope. The 90mm will always offer brighter views of diffuse DSOs, more planetary detail, and more resolution for splitting tighter doubles. But the 60mm will be more compact and will still provide endless beautiful views. I doubt I'd be too upset if I had to only use a fine 60mm Tak for the rest of my life (but I'm unusual in this regard).

A 60mm Tak is a lovely thing, I think. But I'd hate for yours to arrive and cause disappointment when the 90mm that you own shows more.

Agree, my 76mm achro definitely shows more even if the difference is subtle. But the little Tak is indeed a lovely thing and gets deployed more often due it being little 😀

[Elp]

2 minutes ago, Roy Challen said:

gets deployed more often due it being little

Not an apo, but awwww:

[Coco]

Think ill mask the 102/6.5 Achro down to 60 & 70mm  see how dark it becomes, check my tolerance for floaters with the SV zoom and my favourite 7mm Nirvana, I Iove that eyepiece.  

[Coco]

On 19/06/2024 at 07:25, SwiMatt said:

I'm in a quite similar pickle, after a thread I had opened a few months ago (where there are plenty of suggestions, basically all those you have), and I basically narrowed it down to the same models that you mention, with the caveat that I'm trying to stay on the lower side of things - that excludes 80mm and 72mm that don't have a retractable shield like the SkyWatcher ED72. If you're willing to go this low in aperture, in my shortlist there is also the SkyWatcher Evolux 62ED. Little caveat: for me portability is king - especially as I'm hoping to fly with this thing when I go on travels for work, so in a final decision size and weight will be very important.

It's obvious that the more I hear about it, the more I'm tempted to wait and put some money away for the Takahashi FS-60CB, but this is a whole other discussion

Going of your signature you didn't buy one or are you still saving for that special delivery   

[SwiMatt]

5 minutes ago, Coco said:

Going of your signature you didn't buy one or are you still saving for that special delivery   

For now it's a lot of plans and lists and ideas. Currently my main candidate is the Stellamira, but as you mentioned it has few reviews and only for astrophotography. But also every time I find a discussion about this, I think that I could stretch my budget and go for that Tak... tough choices! Good luck to you  

[dweller25]

@Coco Just forget the budget and buy the Tak 76mm - you only live once 🙂👍

Edited June 20 by dweller25

[Emperor!Takahashi!]

14 minutes ago, dweller25 said:

@Coco Just forget the budget and buy the Tak 76mm - you only live once 🙂👍

I love how your original post advocated for temperance, and it took all of 5 minutes to edit it to a call for hedonism 🤣 Hear hear!

[dweller25]

8 minutes ago, Emperor!Takahashi! said:

I love how your original post advocated for temperance, and it took all of 5 minutes to edit it to a call for hedonism 🤣 Hear hear!

It’s got to be done 👍

[Stu]

I’ve had a multitude of small apos over the years, if you are bored I listed them out somewhere on the forum. I’ve had two TS 72mm f5.9 fpl-53 scopes and thought they were excellent. Compact, very well put together, lovely focuser and excellent optics. I now have and FS60C, FC76DCU/Q and an FC-100DC (and an FS-128 🤪🤣), and they perform as beautifully as you would expect, but don’t defy the laws of physics. The resolution improves with each step up in aperture.

A 60mm scope is still a 60mm scope so you will still see more with a larger aperture. 70 to 80mm is a nice size, still very compact but give rewarding images. Double stars do look beautiful through small aperture apos because the large airy disks look lovely even in more variable seeing, Izar for example looks like a gem on a ring surrounding the primary.