Astronomy....and Parenting

[WolfieGlos]

I haven't seen any topics relating to this subject, so I thought it might be an interesting discussion to have and see what people's experiences have been.

So at the age of 38, I have just become a dad for the first time to a beautiful baby girl; Alice. She arrived on Friday 17th May, a week early from her due date, weighs 6.2 lbs, and has already completely changed our lives forever. For the better, of course!

Prior to her birth, friends had asked if I would continue with astrophotography. To which I suggested that the late nights required of astronomy would prepare me well for the late nights and lack of sleep when dealing with a newborn. Putting them to bed, and then setting up the scope, and off I go. Simple.

Oh, how naive I was! Because whilst this is true, what I wasn't prepared for is the sheer amount of time and effort it takes to look after the baby! Everything from feeding, sterilising, housework, washing clothes, nappy changes; nevermind getting our own sleep, spending time together or doing anything else. Like cooking food! Or visitors. Or work. It's a full time job for the both of us so far working as a team, and this is the first time I've been to SGL for two weeks. I've not even watched the F1 highlights recorded from the past two weeks.

Anyway, a week after she was born, we were predicted some clear skies but with a Full Moon. Prior to this, I suggested to my wife that I can't even contemplate setting up my scope for an imaging session just simply due to the time commitment of the baby. She suggested I give it a go, see what it's like, and she'll do the feed which coincided with the exact time I would be setting things up.

This actually went quite well, I set up in the usual time, found a suitable target of a star cluster and set the imaging session going. About 30 minutes into the session, after wifey had gone to bed, the baby needed some attention (a nappy change and settling) and during this time, of course the clouds rolled in. With PHD2 beeping away due to the cloud cover, I was conflicted between putting her down and ensuring it wasn't raining on my equipment and focusing on her. Of course I chose to focus on my daughter, settle her and put her back to bed, all the while worrying about possible rain. As it turned out, it was just cloud, but it was enough to end the imaging session and cause me a lot of concern for the equipment.

So as a tester session, I found that it is possible but I now have a serious restriction if, and when, the clouds roll in; worse still if they decide to drop a deluge of rain. I can't expect wifey to look after the baby all day, and then all night if it's clear and I'm imaging!

This is without scanning the individual subs, stacking and processing the image. Luckily I have since found time to process the image which I'll post elsewhere, but it has only been in the very early hours when both wifey and baby are sleeping.

Following this, I'm now considering possible options with the hobby; I certainly don't want to stop having got so far with plans for a better OSC or mono camera later this year, but I also have another universe to concentrate on now and the time commitment of astro (particularly to imaging) appears at the minute to be a real hindrance. If I had to make a choice, of course my daughter will come first every single time. But losing enjoyment and hobbies, in my view, should be avoided if at all possible for our own enjoyment and escapism.

From an imaging perspective, I can only really think of these options:
1) A faster scope (i.e. a RASA at f/2) in a dedicated observatory complete with rain sensors - a major cost that isn't possible.
2) Widefield imaging with a fast lens, i.e. the Samyang 135 at f/2 - possible, but the same issue remains as previously described. But perhaps a simpler grab-n-go setup might make this doable.
3) Stopping imaging for several months or a few years, until it's more feasible again.
4) Small smart telescopes, but these really do not interest me at all.
5) Limit imaging sessions to fewer clear nights a year, and image fewer targets as a result.

I wonder also, going away from DSO imaging, whether similar issues present themselves for Lunar or Planetary imaging? What about solar imaging?

Or visual and observing? I can certainly see me getting into observing in the future, and it might even interest my daughter and if she can get involved, then that'll be great for us to do together on a clear, starry night.

The very late nights and lack of astrodark at this time of year makes it a bit easier to accept missing clear skies whilst I think about possible options, but I'd be interested to hear of peoples experiences and thoughts on this subject 🙂

[Mal22]

Firstly congratulations on the arrival of Alice! I myself became a dad for the first time ten months ago, at the age of 37, and it’s a wonderful (but exhausting) ride - hence why I’m up at 2am now on a cloudy night reading your post! 
 

Has becoming a parent affected my astrophotography? Definitely. I too thought that the nocturnal hobby and baby might go hand in hand nicely, but in reality it usually doesn’t go that way. I’ve found now that unless I have a pretty much nailed on clear night forecast all night then I wont go through the effort of setting up, and even then sometimes I’m just too tired when it gets to the night - especially with the late summer darkness. 

And that’s just the capturing! Finding the time between work and baby to process is a whole other thing. 
 

But, the stars, planets, galaxies and my rig will still be there when baby is a bit older, so for now I’m happy to scale back the Astro for a few years and take the seldom opportunities when they come, and when I have the energy. 
 

By the way I too was sceptical about smart telescopes, but eventually conceded and got a Seestar for the ultra  convenience to plonk it outside and sate my cravings. But it’s just not the right bit of kit for me and barely begins to scratch the itch. It is, I should clarify, a brilliant bit of kit, but an enthusiastic car racer wouldn’t spend years honing their skills and building their perfect car to then have it self drive. I thought I might feel that way. And I did. 

Anyway, let’s see if I can get baby back in the crib now and steal a couple of hours sleep… 

[Bivanus]

Not a parrent yet , just happend to get hands on a sister and some cousins 😅 There are some steps in a baby development , one of them being the slow - oh, soooo slow , it seems like eons ! - stabilisation of the sleep cycle. A todler needs feeding every couple hours , his/hers little body develops tremendously in the first six months .After that , the rithm goes a tad slower , and a different development takes over , one that requires longer continous sleep. I can't talk for all babies but my experience was that after 9 to 12 months a full night sleep becomes the norm rather than the exception and things get a tad less hectic.  

I think you already thought this quite well, from best but pricey to low tech but doable, my bet is on option 5 combined with a tweaking of targets - less DSO and more Lunar / Planetary. Also - and this is from personal experience - having a small grab&go rig pre assembled and ready to go makes all the diference, especially now before the baby mobile phase when many things will have to be locked down 😄 

[RobertI]

Congratulations on your new baby daughter, great times ahead. I understand your dilemma and I’m trying to remember what I did when my nine year old was a baby, but it’s all a bit of a blur, so not sure I can help much! Assuming robotic scopes like the Seestar aren’t the answer, I’m assuming remote observatories won’t help either? What about a simple run off shed for the equipment to allow it be semi-permanently setup, and a rain sensor to alert you, so you can run out and roll the shed on. Might not be completely usable now, but would become so over the next 12 months as your little girl sleeps through most of the night.

[IB20]

Congratulations. It’s the best thing I’ve ever done but also the hardest.

My experience is summer time and astro is a complete no-go. My youngest who is approaching 18 months loves getting up at half 4-5 so late nights are off the table. Winter’s not so bad. When they get into sleeping through the night, sometimes as early as 6 months, those hours between 7pm and whenever some decides to throw a wobbly or have a bad dream, are still a great opportunity for astro.

I’m only visual so I don’t know how much time you need but I can easily squeeze 2-3 hours in a night when conditions allow. 
I have got into to solar ha visual too which has increased opportunity and is incredibly enjoyable and more comfortable than at night. Binoculars are also great when you have no time and really scratch that itch until earlier astronomical darkness returns.

Best advice I could give you is don’t feel compelled to try to squeeze a session in just because it’s clear. Your time is going be incredibly stretched and the skies will wait for you.

Talking to my eldest and him pointing out the moon and Jupiter is incredibly rewarding, even more so when him and his brother will want to observe with me. 

 

Edited June 1 by IB20

[Paz]

Congratulations on the new arrival!

I didn't get into astronomy until I was in my forties and my boys were around 6 and 4.

I would recommend firstly being prepared to let astronomy go and come back to it when you can if need be, which I think you are.

I can't comment on photography but visual astronomy can be done in a way that can fit around young family life. I had a grab and go set up that I could pick up and walk out of the door with, and I could pick it up and put it inside and be back to doing other things within  a minute or two.

If you keep a mental note of what's on in the sky you can observe all year round day, night, and twilight. I was out last night with that kind of set up, with summer twilight and light pollution raging, but I had a fine time on doubles. I was observing for 10 minutes then had to pack up to go and do taxi duty which is my main purpose in this world at the moment now the boys are older, but it was no problem as it required no effort to set up or take down.

If you get a small simple set up your daughter can use it hands on from a young age.

[ollypenrice]

Congratulations!  Of course things would be so much easier if your valet were to appoint a cook, a nurse and, later a governess for the nursery. (I'm reading Tender is the Night at the moment so such people occupy every page. Does seem like a good idea, though.  😁)

We've just received an AM3 mount for the Samyang 135 rig.  This is so compact that a permanent 'observatory' for it would be nothing more than a wooden box with a footprint of about a square metre. Our plan is to squeeze it into the 4 scope robotic shed as an extra but it might give you a near cost-free observatory...

Olly

[Earl]

Congrats, it never ends in this house we have the grandkids for the weekend. 7 Kids between us and 5 grandkids so far...

[TiffsAndAstro]

Get a second baby monitor plonk it outside

I can't speak from much experience but when I've had to 'borrow' my niece and nephews over the years, I've found them to be very useful at things like farming stuff in video games

even better when they were old enough to not have to sit on my knee whilst doing so.

So it's not a dead loss

[Simon Pepper]

Congrats on the new arrival. It’s tough but if you are hardcore AP through and through don’t give it up. Processing can wait and data collection can be setup with the AAP or Nina. I took up AP in 2019 when my first child was 1 and since had another and I never stopped imaging. It certainly does help having a patient and allowing wife though. All the best with the family and hobby!  

[bingevader]

Well done!

I'd put this with the 'Lost my MOJO' threads!

I think the answers are probably quite similar.

For me, when our three came, I just eased off until there was a bit more free time.

Once they were old enough, I got them interested as much as possible, until they found their own interests.

I've backed off again recently due to work and being too tired to observe late into the nights.

Interestingly, at the moment, I spend more time observing with the children in school than at home!

I'm sure I will become more active when I have the time.

[bingevader]

4 minutes ago, Simon Pepper said:

Congrats on the new arrival. It’s tough but if you are hardcore AP through and through don’t give it up. Processing can wait and data collection can be setup with the AAP or Nina. I took up AP in 2019 when my first child was 1 and since had another and I never stopped imaging. It certainly does help having a patient and allowing wife though. All the best with the family and hobby!  

As long as you were still pulling your weight.

[tomato]

First off Chris, many congratulations on the birth of your daughter. Children put my AP on hold for 20 years due to both time and money issues, during which the activity went through a revolution (film to digital, Goto mounts, Chinese suppliers of decent, relatively cheap kit), so I had a great time when finally getting back into it. 
 

Don’t worry if your time for AP drops to next to nothing, your kit and the Cosmos will still be there. Enjoy watching your daughter grow up, as you no doubt are finding out, there’s nothing else like it.

[maw lod qan]

Congratulations on the arrival of Alice.

Time will really fly now without you even noticing it.

Take time for yourself when you can, and cherish every moment with that bundle of joy. 

My two daughters are in their 40's.

Grand kids that I changed diapers on, are 22, 17, 13 and 11.

Throw in the great grandson who's just over 1.

The speed of light is slow compared to the speed of your children growing up!

And we require photos of you and Alice!

[WolfieGlos]

23 hours ago, Mal22 said:

Firstly congratulations on the arrival of Alice! I myself became a dad for the first time ten months ago, at the age of 37, and it’s a wonderful (but exhausting) ride - hence why I’m up at 2am now on a cloudy night reading your post! 
 

Has becoming a parent affected my astrophotography? Definitely. I too thought that the nocturnal hobby and baby might go hand in hand nicely, but in reality it usually doesn’t go that way. I’ve found now that unless I have a pretty much nailed on clear night forecast all night then I wont go through the effort of setting up, and even then sometimes I’m just too tired when it gets to the night - especially with the late summer darkness. 
 

By the way I too was sceptical about smart telescopes, but eventually conceded and got a Seestar for the ultra  convenience to plonk it outside and sate my cravings. But it’s just not the right bit of kit for me and barely begins to scratch the itch. It is, I should clarify, a brilliant bit of kit, but an enthusiastic car racer wouldn’t spend years honing their skills and building their perfect car to then have it self drive. I thought I might feel that way. And I did. 

Thanks Mal, similar age and also a similar time replying to this thread I see 😆 Interesting to read you had similar thoughts but also struggled with the time for it. Luckily the rig is up and running now, wifey was happy to look after baby alone tonight now that the dreaded cluster feed has passed… !!! So far so good, but it’s definitely not going to be a regular occurance. Let’s see how it goes.

I voiced my opinion about smart telescopes elsewhere, and despite offering a balanced view I got shot down for it so I won’t bother repeating it here, but like you, I see it as a backwards step with their current capabilities (compared to my imaging rig). In time I’ve no doubt they’ll be more capable. Although I didn’t realise the Seestar was capable of solar imaging and some images I’ve seen of the recent sunspot that caused the spectacular aurora display were pretty decent, I don’t have the itch to just produce any old image, and the racing driver is a very good analogy! 

Edited June 2 by WolfieGlos

[WolfieGlos]

21 hours ago, Bivanus said:

I think you already thought this quite well, from best but pricey to low tech but doable, my bet is on option 5 combined with a tweaking of targets - less DSO and more Lunar / Planetary. Also - and this is from personal experience - having a small grab&go rig pre assembled and ready to go makes all the diference, especially now before the baby mobile phase when many things will have to be locked down 😄 

Yes, locking it down is definitely something I need to work out in time! The grab n go is something I’m considering with a SY135 perhaps on a Star Adventurer, it’ll certainly be able to be setup a lot quicker.

[WolfieGlos]

18 hours ago, RobertI said:

Congratulations on your new baby daughter, great times ahead. I understand your dilemma and I’m trying to remember what I did when my nine year old was a baby, but it’s all a bit of a blur, so not sure I can help much! Assuming robotic scopes like the Seestar aren’t the answer, I’m assuming remote observatories won’t help either? What about a simple run off shed for the equipment to allow it be semi-permanently setup, and a rain sensor to alert you, so you can run out and roll the shed on. Might not be completely usable now, but would become so over the next 12 months as your little girl sleeps through most of the night.

Thanks Rob! The remote side hasn’t really interested me; it’s not my data, and it doesn’t “feel” the same, and hosting my own rig is too expensive. The shed idea is possible; if I can find the time and skill set to make one lol. Certainly something I’m considering,.

[WolfieGlos]

12 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Congratulations!  Of course things would be so much easier if your valet were to appoint a cook, a nurse and, later a governess for the nursery. (I'm reading Tender is the Night at the moment so such people occupy every page. Does seem like a good idea, though.  😁)

We've just received an AM3 mount for the Samyang 135 rig.  This is so compact that a permanent 'observatory' for it would be nothing more than a wooden box with a footprint of about a square metre. Our plan is to squeeze it into the 4 scope robotic shed as an extra but it might give you a near cost-free observatory...

Olly

Thanks Olly 🙂 Maybe if I sell my setup I could afford all of those helpers… 😆 

I think the cost of an AM3 is out of the question currently, unless I divert funds that I had been saving for a 2600mc or 533mm with LRGB (still tempted!). I do have the Star Adventurer, but perhaps the GTI with GoTo might be a cheaper alternative. I like the idea of the box you mention, I’ll give that some thought and a bit of research. I wonder if a simple garden storage box could work…

[WolfieGlos]

10 hours ago, Simon Pepper said:

Congrats on the new arrival. It’s tough but if you are hardcore AP through and through don’t give it up. Processing can wait and data collection can be setup with the AAP or Nina. I took up AP in 2019 when my first child was 1 and since had another and I never stopped imaging. It certainly does help having a patient and allowing wife though. All the best with the family and hobby!  

Thank you Simon! That’s interesting you started soon after you started a family, what were you thinking lol 😆

Yep, a patient wife definitely helps! She’s keen for me to continue rather than lose out on the hobby, but going from taking advantage of as many clear skies as possible, to restricting it to, say, 12 sessions a year is a big change in mentality. Of course that’s a given now, but if it’s possible, then that’s a good boost.

[WolfieGlos]

9 hours ago, tomato said:

First off Chris, many congratulations on the birth of your daughter. Children put my AP on hold for 20 years due to both time and money issues, during which the activity went through a revolution (film to digital, Goto mounts, Chinese suppliers of decent, relatively cheap kit), so I had a great time when finally getting back into it. 
 

Don’t worry if your time for AP drops to next to nothing, your kit and the Cosmos will still be there. Enjoy watching your daughter grow up, as you no doubt are finding out, there’s nothing else like it.

Thank you Steve. Wow, 20 years you held out, that’s really interesting. You certainly went through a revolution like you say in technology during that period.

Certainly watching her grow up is going to be incredible, and yes, you’re right, the cosmos will still be there. I guess it’s the usual self inflicted pressure to image or view as much as possible, when in actual fact, it’ll still be there. That’s a good point, and so what if I go from (say) 50 images a year to 15? 

[WolfieGlos]

4 hours ago, maw lod qan said:

Congratulations on the arrival of Alice.

Time will really fly now without you even noticing it.

Take time for yourself when you can, and cherish every moment with that bundle of joy. 

My two daughters are in their 40's.

Grand kids that I changed diapers on, are 22, 17, 13 and 11.

Throw in the great grandson who's just over 1.

The speed of light is slow compared to the speed of your children growing up!

And we require photos of you and Alice!

Thank you !

How about this one! She was a forceps delivery, which I never realised was carried out in theatre. The student midwife had my phone taking photos the whole time which was a nice thing to do, and she captured me in scrubs the first time she held my hand whilst being cleaned up 🥰  An incredible moment.

[Mal22]

3 hours ago, WolfieGlos said:

Thank you !

How about this one! She was a forceps delivery, which I never realised was carried out in theatre. The student midwife had my phone taking photos the whole time which was a nice thing to do, and she captured me in scrubs the first time she held my hand whilst being cleaned up 🥰  An incredible moment.

Wonderful! Such a special moment captured forever.

[tomato]

6 hours ago, WolfieGlos said:

Thank you Steve. Wow, 20 years you held out, that’s really interesting. You certainly went through a revolution like you say in technology during that period.

Certainly watching her grow up is going to be incredible, and yes, you’re right, the cosmos will still be there. I guess it’s the usual self inflicted pressure to image or view as much as possible, when in actual fact, it’ll still be there. That’s a good point, and so what if I go from (say) 50 images a year to 15? 

I think the UK weather trend will likely limit your image output more than anything your daughter can do…

When my youngest daughter was seven I  dug out my old scope from the loft for an out reach event at her primary school. Man that was a scary evening, I’d never done visual with it and my star hopping skills were minimal, talk about pressure with a group of excited children gathered around the scope, eager to see something.

[maw lod qan]

Seeing that photo brings tears to my old eyes!

It's amazing how having just come into this world they know!

It's as if she is saying,  "hi dad, I'm ready to get started now!"

[Vroobel]

Congratulations from me too. 😍

I experienced it twice, 17 months of difference. Sometimes I felt like I have three, not two... 😁 Now they are 14 and 13 years old and I cannot wait when they are responsible and self-sufficient enough to let me spend night under sky darker than Bortle 9. 🤔😉

Edited June 2 by Vroobel