Just starting? Get an 8 inch dob.

[Richard N]

"Get an 8 inch Dob" is quite a common trope on the internet for beginners but it's far from always being the best advice. I bought an 8 inch Dob from a beginner yesterday. He had noticed that he could see the moon from his lounge windows on a clear night in the winter and mentioned it to a friend, "a keen astronomer". The friend said why not get a telescope? Our beginner said "what would you recommend?".  "An 8 inch Dob" was the reply. On this advice our beginner went online and bought a Skywatcher 200p. He was apparently gobsmacked when it arrived. Anyway, he duly assembled it and discovered that the moon was only visible from his lounge window very occasionally, so there it sat. His friend never followed up with more help so our beginner observed from inside. As far as I could tell, he never managed to see the moon or anything else. He had assembled the focusser wrongly and so he could never have reached focus with an eyepiece. He eventually realised that it needed to be outside to be used but that was not for him. The scope sat there until his wife insisted that he got rid of it. I bought it and saved £100+ on a new one.

His friend let him down I felt. Frankly, an 8 inch Dob is by no means always the right path to take. As it was, when I got home I researched some good quality binos for him and suggested they would be far more useful. I suspect that he will never get interested in astonomy after such a bad start but who knows? All a bit sad really. Still, if he gets good binos, they will have much more utility for him than that 8 inch Dob.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Richard N

[niallk]

Interesting story: playing devils advocate a little, could any telescope have been substituted in place of the 8" dob with the same outcome?  Granted if the only goal was to view the moon, something more modest / binos might have sufficed.

Imho, the onus is on us all as beginners to read up a little on the hobby, and bringing your scope outside is a well highlighted basic.  That being said, volunteering and following up to help someone get going is always a good thing of course!

I only had the Internet to help - lurking on the likes of SGL, and went for a 10" dob, changing up from an 8" at the last moment - and loved it!

As an all rounder, an 8" dob is not a bad recommendation imho - but it all depends on the individual of course.

 

[Ratlet]

To be fair, his made did him dirty and didn't take everything into consideration and not offering additional support.

Quite often the correct answer is a flavour of dob, but not always.

There is also the problem of when you start, you don't really know what you want.  When I started I thought I wanted to do astrophotgraphy.  Turns out I really just want to stand outside looking at DSO with my eyeball.

[John]

I think the lesson here for all of us is to ask a few questions before ploughing in with any recommendations to those asking about getting a telescope.

We all want to help of course and are enthusiastic about the hobby and what we have found works for us but that might not be the "prescription" that works for someone else with different interests and circumstances.

 

[cajen2]

17 minutes ago, John said:

I think the lesson here for all of us is to ask a few questions before ploughing in with any recommendations to those asking about getting a telescope.

We all want to help of course and are enthusiastic about the hobby and what we have found works for us but that might not be the "prescription" that works for someone else with different interests and circumstances.

 

All true but surely it behoves all of us to find out a basic minimum of information before shelling out the well-earned....

I remember taking months of researching before starting up a reef aquarium (mind you, that's a hobby which is even more expensive than astronomy!).

[Richard N]

56 minutes ago, niallk said:

bringing your scope outside is a well highlighted basic

It's mentioned in the instructions for the scope but he obviously already had it by then. I think it's an easy mistake to make. If you see anyone doing astronomy on the TV, they are almost always "inside". He thought the  prob;em was the leaded lights on the windows and had pondered using it through a Velux rooflight. I said that probably wouldn't work either - due to turbulence.

[John]

2 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

All true but surely it behoves all of us to find out a basic minimum of information before shelling out the well-earned....

I remember taking months of researching before starting up a reef aquarium (mind you, that's a hobby which is even more expensive than astronomy!).

Oh yes I agree. Forums are a vital part of that and didn't exist when I started out in the hobby. Not knowing anyone who was into the hobby I had to read all the books and magazines that I could and piece together what might work for me.

Then I found that all I could actually afford was a 60mm refractor so, like many of my generation, that is what I started out with despite my research showing that if fell short of what most established astronomers considered to be the minimum useful instrument 🙄

Still, it got me hooked though and 40+ years on, I'm still at it so the little Tasco did good 🙂

[Guest]

I always toss out the same statement when the question of "what should i get" comes out.  Stop, find a astro club and go look at them.  Its the only way to really know what scope you should get 

[Carbon Brush]

The 'right' scope depends of course on the user and the circumstances.
An 8" dob is great if you can store and carry it.
If you live in a 3rd floor flat and have a bad back.........
I try to ask about the user and the circumstances.

Sadly the advice to ask at an astro club is not always valid.

Many years ago I visited a club several times. They used to sit around and talk, nothing more.
I did not own a scope and wanted a look through something 'proper' as well as advice.

Another club I tried - and joined -  elected a chairman who did not even own a telescope!
They just wanted to get the money in from chargeable public open evenings.
 

[RobertI]

It’s a tough one to get right. The advice was always to start with binoculars, but more recently even this advice has been questioned by some. Whenever anyone asks me now, I simply lend them my Heritage 130P and I generally find out what they are REALLY are interested in. The most recent time I did this with a friend who expressed an interest, it turned out all he wanted to do was take a snap of the moon. The concept of looking for faint fuzzies was not something he was aware of… or interested in. 

[Carbon Brush]

Yes scope loan is a good thing. I have done it a few times.
Sometimes the recipient has said thanks but you didn't tell me about the cold and cloudy nights🥶
Then there are the 'they all look the same size on the web page' when you show them a big dob😆
Other times the recipient has asked where he can buy this (not getting used by me) type of scope. Well I can help🤑

[bosun21]

1 hour ago, Richard N said:

If you see anyone doing astronomy on the TV, they are almost always "inside".

🤔Not for what I’ve seen. Terrestrial then yes, but not astronomy. I got my first ever telescope at 8 years old (a 114mm generic reflector) and even at this young age I knew instinctively that I had to be outside and I used to take it out into a local farm to escape the lights.

[Spile]

On my blog I have a getting started page and one of the bits of advice I give is that maybe not getting a telescope is the best thing to do. I also recommend not taking the advice to get x or y from one particular person, but to read lots of posters in order to build up an overall picture. Sadly there are lots of people who will never find forums like these. “What’s the best telescope” is still often heard on the Facebook groups and it’s why a page of my blog has this title.

[Jules Tohpipi]

There is frequently a lack of awareness on both sides when asking for or giving advice. Which Jeremy Clarkson (bless) summarised beautifully in this article about being asked all the time “Which car should I buy?”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/2929446/jeremy-clarkson-reveals-the-weird-questions-he-asks-people-when-they-want-car-buying-advice/amp/

Back to astronomy. Those asking often don’t share (or know) any kind of info as to what practicalities might be important to them. And the advice giver doesn’t think to ask - just names a telescope anyway. 

[Richard N]

1 hour ago, Jules Tohpipi said:

There is frequently a lack of awareness on both sides when asking for or giving advice. Which Jeremy Clarkson (bless) summarised beautifully in this article about being asked all the time “Which car should I buy?”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/2929446/jeremy-clarkson-reveals-the-weird-questions-he-asks-people-when-they-want-car-buying-advice/amp/

Back to astronomy. Those asking often don’t share (or know) any kind of info as to what practicalities might be important to them. And the advice giver doesn’t think to ask - just names a telescope anyway. 

Usually can’t stand JC but he makes a a number of fair points in this article. 

[Mandy D]

10 minutes ago, Richard N said:

Usually can’t stand JC but he makes a a number of fair points in this article. 

I have to wonder if he actually did get around to drinking the Domestos in the toilets.

[maw lod qan]

When I got back into it, I bought an 8"OTA. Now, the only thing I would do over is make it an 10" if not a 12".

[bosun21]

For a complete beginner the two most important points to determine are the moving and transportation of an 8” dobsonian to wherever they are going to observe from and storage space. Once these are out of the way I still think that for the majority of complete beginners a 8” dobsonian is a sound recommendation as Ed Ting has been voicing for 20 years. I would also enquire how hands on they are to address the collimation aspect. A refractor is also a good choice but I would choose a longer FL to allow decent views of the planets as that’s usually the first targets of choice for a beginner. A Maksutov is another good choice.

[Jules Tohpipi]

I think the other big question is light pollution in the area. Otherwise star hopping with any manual scope without aid will be hopeless e.g. GOTO or Celestron Starsense will be required. 
 

Which then prompts questions about comfort/familiarity with using and learning new technology. Because some people don’t interact with technology that much in their jobs or daily lives. In that sense I see the Celestron phone system being an enormous step forward for younger beginners. 

[Chaz2b]

Walk into a hardware store and ask "got any paint brushes?" You could get two answers, " yeah! Loads, over there", or " yes, what kind of paint brushes do you need? For painting the house or pictures?"

When I first asked Keiron McGrath of SCSastro about getting a telescope, first thing he asked was, "what do you want to view with it?"

Then he would get more specific about what to look for.

Understanding the tool first is key I think.

And as an aside, although I have some great scopes, I've just bought an old SW 200p.

Chaz

Edited September 3, 2023 by Chaz2b

[Richard N]

On 17/08/2023 at 14:36, bosun21 said:

For a complete beginner the two most important points to determine are the moving and transportation of an 8” dobsonian to wherever they are going to observe from and storage space. Once these are out of the way I still think that for the majority of complete beginners a 8” dobsonian is a sound recommendation as Ed Ting has been voicing for 20 years. I would also enquire how hands on they are to address the collimation aspect. A refractor is also a good choice but I would choose a longer FL to allow decent views of the planets as that’s usually the first targets of choice for a beginner. A Maksutov is another good choice.

Arguably it’s a rather dated suggestion. A lot of people seem to start in astrophotography these days. Given modern technology, the skills gained from using a dob might be regarded as redundant most of the time. Incidentally, I have already had some excellent nights under the stars with the dob. I enjoy the challenge and simplicity of star hopping but I accept that others will find it frustrating and time consuming. 

[bingevader]

On 14/08/2023 at 08:48, Richard N said:

His friend let him down I felt. Frankly, an 8 inch Dob is by no means always the right path to take. As it was, when I got home I researched some good quality binos for him and suggested they would be far more useful. I suspect that he will never get interested in astonomy after such a bad start but who knows? All a bit sad really. Still, if he gets good binos, they will have much more utility for him than that 8 inch Dob.

Should have come to SGL!

I think as a forum community we have always been very good at asking all the appropriate questions before suggesting anyone settle on a specific 'scope.

[kirkster501]

An 8" Dob remains good advice IMO although we always have to remember that not everyone is going to be able to (or willing) to collimate a telescope. 

[niallk]

1 hour ago, kirkster501 said:

An 8" Dob remains good advice IMO although we always have to remember that not everyone is going to be able to (or willing) to collimate a telescope. 

Collimation broke my heart at the start.  Thought I'd totally messed up my 250px, and that I'd never be able to use it again. 

AstroBaby's guide saved me 🙂  - forever grateful!!

[Spile]

Collimation should never stop anyone from getting a reflector. Its like riding a bike, it takes time and can be scary at first but once you’ve mastered it, you’ll be set for life.