Sanity check required on astrophotography spending

[Mognet]

Hi all,

I've been doing a little astrophotography with my old Nikon D3100, but I'm now planning  getting a proper camera. Initially it will be used with my Mak127, and I'll get something with a wider field early next year.

What I'm planning currently is the ZWO ASI585 camera https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-585mc-usb-3-camera.html

WIth the Mak127 I probably need a reducer, I think this one https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reducersflatteners/stellamira-2-06x-reducer-field-flattener-with-m42-adapter.html

Then the questionable bits. With the reducer I'll need an adaptor as the mak has a 1.25" back, would this one https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astro-essentials-2-to-125-reducer-adapter.html be suitable, and would I need another adaptor/extension tube too, or do I need something different?

 

I already have an AZ-EQ5 for the mount, and a Raspberry Pi400 with Astroberry for control, and hopefully this power supply should be able to drive all of them https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/orion-dynamo-pro-155wh-acdcusb-lithium-power-supply.html

[Peter Drew]

Sanity check for an imager?  Whatever next!    🙂

[Elp]

If it were a sanity cheque I'd be interested 

[carastro]

Not so sure using a Mak is the best type of scope for imaging, the reducer might help.  But I guess you want to step up in stages.  I don't really know much about CMOS and colour cameras, so can't advise on that, but all I know is it's an expensive hobby, but good luck with it and hope you get more helpful answers than mine has been.

Carole 

Edited December 23, 2022 by carastro

[Elp]

The 585 from what I've read is an excellent camera and a good go between for planetary and dso. I use the older 485mc for both and it works well, for planetary I use it with an astroberry RPI and find the framerate is slow, even with ROI and usb trafficking adjusted, the 224 I still keep and use for planetary for this reason. With the mak I'm guessing at around F10 native you will only be able to shoot planetary which is why you're looking at a reducer which in theory should work for DSO, I do a similar thing with my c6 at times.

The camera or any equivalent will be a good choice, bear in mind it's full resolution is a 16:9 ratio rather than the typical 3:2, so it'll be wider than high, I could just about fit Pleiades in with the 485 at 300mm focal length.

Regarding power, the camera powers via the usb on the RPI, and you can power the RPI with a standard 5v usb power bank via its micro usb input, I usually use a 20000mAh one with it. Much easier than lugging a large power bank around. I usually use a Celestron Lithium LT to power my mounts when away from mains.

[happy-kat]

If looking at that camera you might enjoy this owners thread

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/397896-zwoplayer-one-imx-585-sensor-image-showcase/page/1

[bomberbaz]

3 hours ago, Mognet said:

Hi all,

I've been doing a little astrophotography with my old Nikon D3100, but I'm now planning  getting a proper camera. Initially it will be used with my Mak127, and I'll get something with a wider field early next year.

What I'm planning currently is the ZWO ASI585 camera https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-585mc-usb-3-camera.html

WIth the Mak127 I probably need a reducer, I think this one https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reducersflatteners/stellamira-2-06x-reducer-field-flattener-with-m42-adapter.html

Then the questionable bits. With the reducer I'll need an adaptor as the mak has a 1.25" back, would this one https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astro-essentials-2-to-125-reducer-adapter.html be suitable, and would I need another adaptor/extension tube too, or do I need something different?

 

I already have an AZ-EQ5 for the mount, and a Raspberry Pi400 with Astroberry for control, and hopefully this power supply should be able to drive all of them https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/orion-dynamo-pro-155wh-acdcusb-lithium-power-supply.html

Think you need this to attach the reducer to the mak https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astro-essentials-1-25-inch-t-mount-camera-nosepiece-adapter.html

[Mognet]

1 hour ago, carastro said:

Not so sure using a Mak is the best type of scope for imaging, the reducer might help.  But I guess you want to step up in stages

Thanks Carole. I'm not sure it's the best choice either. I'll learn what I can this way and while I decide on what I need next. I'm probably starting with clusters rather than nebulae as they'll need less processing

[Mognet]

56 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

If looking at that camera you might enjoy this owners thread

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/397896-zwoplayer-one-imx-585-sensor-image-showcase/page/1

I've been watching that thread with interest for a couple of weeks, and it's from there that I decided on the camera. Plus I got an unexpected Xmas bonus from work 😀

[Mognet]

56 minutes ago, bomberbaz said:

Think you need this to attach the reducer to the mak https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astro-essentials-1-25-inch-t-mount-camera-nosepiece-adapter.html

Thanks Steve. I already have a longer one that I've been using with my camera and a Nikon adaptor, but wasn't sure it would be suitable or even fit the thread. This one seems to be the better option with the reducer

[bomberbaz]

1 hour ago, Mognet said:

Thanks Steve. I already have a longer one that I've been using with my camera and a Nikon adaptor, but wasn't sure it would be suitable or even fit the thread. This one seems to be the better option with the reducer

I would confirm with FLO before pressing any buttons

[bomberbaz]

Just re-reading your post, not exactly sure what your looking to adapt too. However there are a huge range of adaptors at FLO and I think for that part of your question at least you may be better asking FLO directly. They are very helpful and more than happy to assist.

[catburglar]

I’m not sure about the reducer your proposing or the means of attaching it in your imaging train.

The reducer is designed for refractors around F6 natively- your mak is F12. The 585 chip is a pretty small in comparison to APS-C so you may be OK with it.

But- the reducer has got a 2inch nosepiece (and it looks like an internal M48/filer thread on the scope side).  The mak typically has a 1 1/4 inch visual back…So you may need to get something to convert your mak thread to SCT thread like this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astro-essentials-mak-to-sct-adapter.html

and then something to convert the SCT thread to M48 like this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astro-essentials-low-profile-sct-2-to-m48-adapter.html

 

But I’d agree with @bomberbaz- best to check all of this with FLO…

[Mognet]

Thanks @bomberbaz and @catburglar The choice of a 2" 0.6 reducer was from using FLO's astronomy.tools website as it apparently brings the field of view inside that from a 25mm eyepiece, and there's only one 1.25" reducer on FLO's website which apparently doesn't suit maks

I could be looking at this from the wrong direction, so I'll drop FLO an email to see what they say. It may be that I will also need to consider a faster scope at the same time

[Franklin]

1 hour ago, Mognet said:

I'll drop FLO an email to see what they say. It may be that I will also need to consider a faster scope at the same time

Drop the Mak and get a Frac.

[Mognet]

43 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Drop the Mak and get a Frac.

That's what I'm now considering. Just been looking at FLO's website again and I'm wondering if their StellaMira 66mm ED would be more suitable https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellamira-telescopes/stellamira-66mm-ed-f6-refractor-telescope.html

[Franklin]

1 minute ago, Mognet said:

Just been looking at FLO's website again and I'm wondering if their StellaMira 66mm ED would be more suitable

I would say so, definitely. 

 

[pipnina]

8 hours ago, Peter Drew said:

Sanity check for an imager?  Whatever next!    🙂

Tell me about it!

I used about 1500 worth of kit until march this year. HEQ5 + pre-owned D3200 + 130PDS+BaaderMK3 CC.

I used that from 2017-2022. Then in february I bought a risingcam 571. Then I bought £3000 woth of chroma filters... Then I replaced the 130PDS with an 8" f4 TS newt, which I never got to work as I liked... Then spent money on a second hand 130mm triplet... Oh no oh no.

I looked up how much I spent in total this year... I felt very guilty... After 3 years of saving money and living with my dad to save for a "house deposit" i blew a lot of that in 9 months chasing better images haha. I'd been looking at even just the astrocam upgrade til then going "One day, but man they are expensive!"

 

[Elp]

Just don't ever, whatever you do, tally up the cost per image.

[Franklin]

But on the plus side, the images you guys/gals are capable of capturing, beats what the professional observatories were doing not so long back. How much did Mt. Palomar cost?

[Adam J]

13 hours ago, Mognet said:

Hi all,

I've been doing a little astrophotography with my old Nikon D3100, but I'm now planning  getting a proper camera. Initially it will be used with my Mak127, and I'll get something with a wider field early next year.

What I'm planning currently is the ZWO ASI585 camera https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-585mc-usb-3-camera.html

WIth the Mak127 I probably need a reducer, I think this one https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reducersflatteners/stellamira-2-06x-reducer-field-flattener-with-m42-adapter.html

Then the questionable bits. With the reducer I'll need an adaptor as the mak has a 1.25" back, would this one https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astro-essentials-2-to-125-reducer-adapter.html be suitable, and would I need another adaptor/extension tube too, or do I need something different?

 

I already have an AZ-EQ5 for the mount, and a Raspberry Pi400 with Astroberry for control, and hopefully this power supply should be able to drive all of them https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/orion-dynamo-pro-155wh-acdcusb-lithium-power-supply.html

Ok my advice here is that your biggest issue is the scope not the camera, others have said get a 130pds and a corrector. Use the D3100 for the time being. This is a vastly better combo than a mak and a ting 585 sensor. 

Of if you want to go wider a 60mm refractor. Sell the mak to help fund it you should get 200 used. 

Adam

Edited December 24, 2022 by Adam J

[bosun21]

10 hours ago, Elp said:

The 585 from what I've read is an excellent camera and a good go between for planetary and dso. I use the older 485mc for both and it works well, for planetary I use it with an astroberry RPI and find the framerate is slow, even with ROI and usb trafficking adjusted, the 224 I still keep and use for planetary for this reason. With the mak I'm guessing at around F10 native you will only be able to shoot planetary which is why you're looking at a reducer which in theory should work for DSO, I do a similar thing with my c6 at times.

The camera or any equivalent will be a good choice, bear in mind it's full resolution is a 16:9 ratio rather than the typical 3:2, so it'll be wider than high, I could just about fit Pleiades in with the 485 at 300mm focal length.

Regarding power, the camera powers via the usb on the RPI, and you can power the RPI with a standard 5v usb power bank via its micro usb input, I usually use a 20000mAh one with it. Much easier than lugging a large power bank around. I usually use a Celestron Lithium LT to power my mounts when away from mains.

I have just bought a new ASI585 MC and used it once but I have now run out of USB ports on my asiair plus. it looks like I’ll need to fork out £1K for a cooled camera just to get another usb2 port for my new filter wheel. I’m beginning to think it was a bad idea trying astrophotography. Expensive it sure is.

[PeterC65]

IMX585 cameras are great. I have the Player One version (Uranus-C) but the ZWO version is very similar. I started with a smaller sensor camera and the mid sized IMX585 is a huge step up. I can use it for both DSO and Lunar / Planetary, it has a large enough sensor to capture a reasonable amount of sky, and enough resolution to allow use of ROI without pixilation. I should say that I use mine mainly for EEVA with some very lightweight AP.

I also have the Skymax 127 and the StellaMira x0.6 reducer.

From what I've learned, there are two ways to use a camera:

• For small, bright objects you need to be using a scope with an F number that is four times the pixel size of the camera sensor in µm, so 4 x 2.9µm = F11.6 for the IMX585. Small and bright means Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, Moon detail, maybe M42 at a push.
• For everything else you need to be using a scope of around F5-F6 and be following the CCD Suitability Calculator. A faster scope is needed because the objects you're observing are faint and you need as much light as possible. You can increase the exposure time but more light is always better. More aperture also helps as it does with visual astronomy.

These two requirements are different and need different scopes, or at least different setups.

The Skymax 127 at F11.8 is good only for observing the brighter Planets and Moon detail. You can try it on smaller DSOs and you will most likely be disappointed (I was).

The StellaMira x0.6 reducer is quite a good bit of kit but it is general purpose and so not really optimal. x0.6 is pushing the limits for a reducer I think. Most reducers are x0.8 and most are designed for a specific refractor. I only use mine with my widefield refractor, so to further widen an already wide field of view. It does the job, but the stars around the edge are still distorted if I zoom in to them. Fine for EEVA I think but probably not for AP. This reducer is designed for a 2" clamp. You can modify the Skymax 127 to take 2" accessories using a Mak to SCT Adapter and then fitting a 2" clamp to this (I use a Baader 2" ClickLock). This is a very worthwhile modification to make as it gives the Mak a 2" visual back, the same as most refractors and reflectors, so that swapping kit between scopes is made much easier.

If you really want to use a reducer with the Mak then I would consider the Celestron f6.3 Focal Reducer. It's meant for an SCT but is probably a better option than the StellaMira Reducer for the Mak. You would need to figure out a suitable connection though.

Bear in mind that all reducers require a specific back focus, so the StellaMira x0.6 Reducer for example requires exactly 55mm between the reducer and the camera sensor. I used spacer rings to get to this, although my electronic filter wheel and recently acquired ultrashort clamp just happen to give the required back focus without spacers.

Of my three scopes (127mm Mak, 72mm refractor, 150mm Newtonian), the one I use most with the camera is the refractor. The Newtonian is showing promise as with a Barlow I can make it suitable for Planets and the Moon. I can do this with the refractor too, but the bigger aperture of the Newtonian makes it the better choice. The Newtonian is also the only sensible scope I have for smaller DSOs. I hardly ever use the Mak with the camera.

 

[Mognet]

Thanks everyone. I'm now considering my options for something widefield in place of the mak127 while trying not to fall into the money pit that astrophotography can become!

[Ratlet]