JET breaks fusion record

[Zermelo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-60312633

 

[vlaiv]

I've read some poor translation of this news from local news agency.

Did they actually get more energy out then they put in? Unless that is achieved, it's not news really ...

[Ouroboros]

No. I understand they got a Q of 0.33.  A factor of three to go before break even. 

[vlaiv]

Not much of a news then - still not viable technology and going by current track record - we should not expect it working any time soon.

[DaveS]

JET was never intended or designed to break even but to be a test-bed for the technologies needed. From the report I read they were testing out a Beryllium / Tungsten wall material that has much better (Lower) neutron absorption characteristics than the Carbon wall that was there previously.

[AKB]

…always 30 years away.  😉

[Ouroboros]

4 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Not much of a news then - still not viable technology and going by current track record - we should not expect it working any time soon.

It rather depends what you call news. Progress is progress.  I mean it’s only been 24 years since they last broke the record. 😃

[Zermelo]

Interesting that the radio report I heard just now was focusing on the length of the reaction, so I assumed that was the record. But this article concentrates on the amount of energy released.

I presume the BBC was reporting from the announcement here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H99hvPlC4is

which claims this:

 

[DaveS]

I'm not even sure ITER (Which we may or may not be a member of, depending on "P") is going to be the first to break even, there are other Tokamak / Stellarator designs in the works that show much greater promise. I completely disregard the NIF "Shoot a big gun at it" US attempts.

[The Admiral]

They were using a Be wall over 30 years ago. May be they've changed the composition.

Ian

Edited February 9, 2022 by The Admiral

[The Admiral]

13 minutes ago, DaveS said:

From the report I read they were testing out a Beryllium / Tungsten wall material that has much better (Lower) neutron absorption characteristics than the Carbon wall that was there previously.

They were using beryllium over 30 years ago. May be they've changed the composition.

Ian

[DaveS]

 

[david_taurus83]

How exactly do they plan to harness any output? Will it be a conversion of heat ie water, steam, turbine etc I understand a little of the concept of traditional fission reactions but there's not much power input needed there as the plutonium rods just react and give off heat naturally. Whereas the artificial fusion reaction uses huge amounts of energy to get going and gives off huge amounts of heat. Do we or will we have the technology to harness and convert the waste heat efficiently enough to surpass the energy input?

[SyintheSky]

8 hours ago, david_taurus83 said:

How exactly do they plan to harness any output? Will it be a conversion of heat ie water, steam, turbine etc I understand a little of the concept of traditional fission reactions but there's not much power input needed there as the plutonium rods just react and give off heat naturally. Whereas the artificial fusion reaction uses huge amounts of energy to get going and gives off huge amounts of heat. Do we or will we have the technology to harness and convert the waste heat efficiently enough to surpass the energy input?

Yes it will be a Heat - Water - Steam - Turbine method to produce the electricity, with the benefits of reduced and almost zero radiological waste. The constant fusing of Tritium and deuterium will be what keeps the process going. But due to the high amounts of power needed to keep the magnetic fields in place, they overheat very quickly.

But with this test they were able to keep the process going for 5 seconds, which may not sound like a lot, but I remember last time they broke the record, they had kept the process going for only a second. In this 5 seconds of plasma confinement they managed to produce enough electricity to power a kettle for 11hrs, was the example i was given. But if you look at the amount of energy produced from fusion to burning coal or gas, it's in the range of something like 4 million times more. So yeah, we need fusion. 

[DarkAntimatter]

What's often not made clear in the press is that at the laser fusion facility at Lawrence Livermore (and maybe others by now) they have been getting more energy out than used to ignite the.fusion reaction since 2014.  Since not all energy put in is delivered to the pellet, the overall efficiency is still less than one, and that is what matters.  I think this latest achievement is important for the large amount of energy produced.  

Edited February 10, 2022 by DarkAntimatter

[andrew s]

Commercially viable fusion energy is still 10 yrs off.  Just as it has been ever since I was old enough to keep records. 😊 Regards Andrew 

[DarkAntimatter]

Well, we've progressed from always 30 to always 10?  I'm not sure if this is a convergent sequence or not.

[saac]

On 09/02/2022 at 14:31, david_taurus83 said:

How exactly do they plan to harness any output? Will it be a conversion of heat ie water, steam, turbine etc I understand a little of the concept of traditional fission reactions but there's not much power input needed there as the plutonium rods just react and give off heat naturally. Whereas the artificial fusion reaction uses huge amounts of energy to get going and gives off huge amounts of heat. Do we or will we have the technology to harness and convert the waste heat efficiently enough to surpass the energy input?

The JET reactor itself does not have the ability to extract the energy , it was never designed to have this capability. The main purpose of JET was to investigate and achieve stable fusion. This is why this announcement is indeed a milestone and it is a truly step change in progress. ITER is the next stage in the path to practicable fusion power  (operational reactor presently under construction in south France).  Yes, the intention will be to remove the heat generated by the fusion reaction using a primary coolant (not necessarily water) the heat which will in turn be used to convert a secondary coolant  water to steam to turn steam turbines and produce electricity in the usual manner.  In truth this is an amazing achievement by the team at Culham - well done all involved .  Inspirational. 

 

Jim

[saac]

On 09/02/2022 at 13:57, DaveS said:

I'm not even sure ITER (Which we may or may not be a member of, depending on "P") is going to be the first to break even, there are other Tokamak / Stellarator designs in the works that show much greater promise. I completely disregard the NIF "Shoot a big gun at it" US attempts.

NIF actually achieved a similar milestone last year where they reported achieving plasma burning - this is where the net energy production is driven by fusion events rather than external input.  

 

Jim

[Uranium235]

On 10/02/2022 at 17:17, saac said:

NIF actually achieved a similar milestone last year where they reported achieving plasma burning - this is where the net energy production is driven by fusion events rather than external input.  

 

Jim

Totally correct, a state of burning was achieved, which is a major step towards a reaction that is self sustained.